Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

nobody wrote:
The cruiser and frigate boxes are listed as Dec/Jan with the sites I've checked, and I vaguely recall seeing in an update that they were pushing the release dates back to January.

They have been working on development though, Hawk shared renders of all the corvettes for DFC and some of the special commanders for DZC before Christmas.

Good to know Cruisers in Jan. After this Ks, I have more Frigates then I could possibly ever need, but I need more cruisers

 mdauben wrote:
Still no package, no shipping notice and no response to my email. I held out longer than many, trying to give them the benefit of the doubt but here on the eve of a new year I'm truly fed up and want my blasted game.

If it is any consolation: You are not alone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tamwulf wrote:


I hope they are finally moving into the phase of shipping of the "Problem Backers"- the ones that moved, or changed their pledge after the KS closed, etc. etc.

Problem Backers? FYI I provided them all necessary information in time, without error and without anything special in my adress (like special characters) which might excuse any delay from their side. They simply screwed up and are not able to remedy this. Simple as that!

str00dles1 wrote:

nobody wrote:
The cruiser and frigate boxes are listed as Dec/Jan with the sites I've checked, and I vaguely recall seeing in an update that they were pushing the release dates back to January.

They have been working on development though, Hawk shared renders of all the corvettes for DFC and some of the special commanders for DZC before Christmas.

Good to know Cruisers in Jan. After this Ks, I have more Frigates then I could possibly ever need, but I need more cruisers

Yeah they goofed my order and gave me a frigate sprue instead of a cruiser for my UCM for the bonanza bonus, so I have a ton of frigates. I'm not complaining but I desperately need 5 more cruisers for my planned 1500 fleet.

I do find it interesting the mention of "export problem" likely being the IT meaning of the word as in from a database and not the shipping/customs meaning of export. As was mentioned earlier, the pledge manager was run by Bob's favorite company Geiger (who in the interests of disclosure I also strongly dislike) who worked with Mantic on their projects. There was an issue with one of the Mantic campaigns wherein a few hundred pledges were "lost" which needless to say resulted in things not being sent and very upset backers. It could be coincidence, but it seems worth considering as a complication; trying to find missing data is indeed a convoluted process. In the final analysis though even if it was an issue with that system, Hawk picked them to be their subcontractor so they're the ones who need to sort it out.

Hopefully it won't be much longer into the New Year for folks to get put right. It's really is a shame as unlike many projects who struggle and stumble, they're mostly delivering what they showed versus some groups that just shovel whatever they can out the door. I've greatly enjoyed building my fleets and actually have finished assembling everything (which if you saw the vast number of unopened boxes lying around the house is actually a high-order compliment).

As true as it may be, I do believe with the post of "At least it's not Robotech..." that I've scored a KickStarter Bingo! "Book needs another editing pass", "Poor Communication", Delays (the free space), "At least it's not Robotech..." and "Shipping Process of Mystery"!

SKR.HH wrote:

 mdauben wrote:
Still no package, no shipping notice and no response to my email. I held out longer than many, trying to give them the benefit of the doubt but here on the eve of a new year I'm truly fed up and want my blasted game.

If it is any consolation: You are not alone.

Oh, I realize that. Didn't Hawk suggest in a recent update that there may be problems with as many as 200 missing pledge shipments?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tamwulf wrote:


I hope they are finally moving into the phase of shipping of the "Problem Backers"- the ones that moved, or changed their pledge after the KS closed, etc. etc.

Problem Backers? FYI I provided them all necessary information in time, without error and without anything special in my adress (like special characters) which might excuse any delay from their side. They simply screwed up and are not able to remedy this. Simple as that!

Same here. My pledge manager was filled out correctly and on time and none of my info has changed since then. Hawk simply messed up. Repeatedly.

I don't know why I feel bad. I bought the box set at my not so local gaming store and bought it thinking I might never get the chance to buy it again. Here are people who ordered this what years ago and still haven't received their product?

This is just not right when I can buy my stuff in a store while others who supported Dave don't have nothing. At least Dave can email them and explain why.

Davor wrote:
I don't know why I feel bad. I bought the box set at my not so local gaming store and bought it thinking I might never get the chance to buy it again. Here are people who ordered this what years ago and still haven't received their product?

This is just not right when I can buy my stuff in a store while others who supported Dave don't have nothing. At least Dave can email them and explain why.

Errrr, they have, there was a whole video, and several emails about it.

It's basically boiled down Hawk consisting of 5 guys, packing all the pledges themselves, receiving way more funding than they could cope with, and then the specific issues they've encountered with the export problem being really quite labour intensive and slow to sort out. It's both their fault and not their fault. I don't think anything malicious has taken place, it's an honest, if pretty major mistake which they're trying (albeit rather slowly) to sort out. A retail box is way way easier to sort out, I imagine one person could pack most of the retail shipments in a couple of days

That's assuming they're even involved in much of the retail stuff personally or whether it's some production line somewhere that sorts that out.

 winnertakesall wrote:
It's both their fault and not their fault. I don't think anything malicious has taken place, it's an honest, if pretty major mistake which they're trying (albeit rather slowly) to sort out.

Maybe rather than asking if they're at fault, we can talk about this in terms of their responsibility. They are 100% responsible for solving the problems.

I understand what you were getting at by saying you don't think anything malicious has taken place (I agree), but talking about the issue of fault opens up the possibility that it could somehow not be Hawk's fault, maybe even in some way it could be the customers' fault. You didn't say that of course, but when we've got people this understandably angry about how their orders have been handled, we need to not allow any possibility that they could be construed to be at fault. Because we already have seen people who are more enthusiastic for this game than they are for their fellow customers try to suggest that anyone who is unhappy is at fault for supporting a Kickstarter. In the end, it doesn't matter who's at fault, it just matters that Hawk take responsibility.

And they have at least formally, though it is of course necessary that they get this problem solved. I know how frustrating it must be to not have your kit, but I'm sure most upset customers also know how unlikely it was that anything happen during the holiday break. I don't know when most people in the UK head back after New Years, but hopefully starting the end of this week we'll see some headway?

It's their mistakes / oversights that lead to the situation, and it's their responsibilty to fix it.

The mistakes they made weren't easily solvable and are somewhat understandable that they were made in the first place - aside from the whole communications debacle. That's not understandable, period. Maybe it's due to my job, but I just don't get why Hawk wasn't able to provide more and better updates - communication is key in all projects, ESPECIALLY where the customer is concerned. Even more so when issues come up. A quick "we're working on it, we did 200 pledges today and the total is 2200/4000" or something.

They did start doing that... but they must be missing some from the pledge manager / database given how many people still are posting that they don't have any shipping notice / etc.

Besides the very lengthy delay, I did get my stuff a few weeks ago.

The miniatures are fantastic, the sprues are loaded with goodies and are a real pleasure to assemble.

The rulebook... is garbage. The "homage" to BFG in terms of it's shape is wholly impractical at the gaming table. Major fail. There is no index or quick references, so finding "that one rule we're not sure about" is taxing. There are rules that contradict the example pictures and there are a LOT of rules interactions that are straight up broken. A FAQ and errata is direly needed.

Played my first game and it's fun. There's a lot going on, but not so much that it's overwhelming. Very tactical in every phase of the game. I put it well ahead of X-Wing and Armada in terms of enjoyment factor.

Great game - but I agree with the thread here. The rulebook needs to get cut up into a pdf and reorganized. It's jumbled right now

@katfude yet Hawk claimed the reason they delayed sending the rulebook to the printer was to ensure it would be error free and not require a day one errata. So not only did they delay their own project, they also fethed up the rulebook.

Where did they claim that? Thanks at sounds like an awfully survivor claim to make there without quotes to hand...

 Compel wrote:
Where did they claim that? Thanks at sounds like an awfully survivor claim to make there without quotes to hand...

Quote from KS:

We recognise that there has been a delay, and though we have done a lot to try to avoid it, this delay has been caused by a mixture of the following:
•Ensuring the quality of the tooling is to the level we are happy with,
•Additional game testing to fully polish the rules and scenarios,
•Spending a little longer than planned on fine-tuning the design work for both printed items and models.

The relevant update for that quote is update #49 under Question 3.

While it doesn't expressly say it's for the rulebook, that's probably a pretty good guess as the most complicated printed item. The tokens are serviceable, but not exactly rocket science to produce.

I quite like the rulebook itself, but agree it needed much more fine-tuning and better editing. While some typos like "Traffic James" are harmless and amusing, there are seemingly inconsistent stats listed between quickplay and rulebook. That the "groups for list-building" and "groups for gameplay" issue seems to be a thing points at further polish that could readily be applied. The rules themselves seem quite engaging and fun, but the presentation definitely could have been firmed up better. That printed materials were a cited reason for the delay is really the disappointing thing. Supposedly they took longer and that was still the result; makes one shudder to think if that had been done on their original timeframe. It also seems fairly likely the printer introduced a few mishaps to the project, but as we've said that doesn't absolve Hawk of the responsibility on correcting it.

Speaking of printed materials, I do wonder when the delayed map packs will be dispatched with all of the missing pledges still outstanding. Obviously getting things to people who have nothing is more important, but I'm not sure we've heard any mention of that have we?

There's a difference between "fine tuning the design work" and the specific claim of guaranteeing it would be "error free and not require a day one errata"

@compel that came direct from a hawk employees mouth at the Cardiff preview day in Firestorm Games.

Miracles over miracles: I received a shipping notice from DPD... Let's see how this turns out.

Some good news at least. Hopefully it gets to you in decent time. Make sure you find the brown envelope, especially if you had a high-rank pledge; it sounds like a cryptic code but it's where the stickers and such will be tucked away and it blends in a bit well with the cardboard. Since I nearly missed it initially and I've seen other folks at various fora mention similar, figured I'd try to keep you from any final stumbling blocks in checking things.

I got my shipping notice yesterday, so it looks like they are catching up on the missing pledged in the new year.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
@compel that came direct from a hawk employees mouth at the Cardiff preview day in Firestorm Games.

And Dave has told people at events since launch that Point Defense should be different, that you pull your PD pools together, but without a video or it written anywhere (anywhere being a place that is legit) its all hearsay. Sure, the goal is a perfect book, but that never happens, with any company, ever, as we are humans.

the best thing they could do is make a digital living rulebook for this, and DZC really to edit rules and fix things. Super easy for them, and players. And if you really want, you can print it yourself.

str00dles1 wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
@compel that came direct from a hawk employees mouth at the Cardiff preview day in Firestorm Games.

And Dave has told people at events since launch that Point Defense should be different, that you pull your PD pools together, but without a video or it written anywhere (anywhere being a place that is legit) its all hearsay. Sure, the goal is a perfect book, but that never happens, with any company, ever, as we are humans.

the best thing they could do is make a digital living rulebook for this, and DZC really to edit rules and fix things. Super easy for them, and players. And if you really want, you can print it yourself.

A Living Rulebook is fine for SMALL rulebooks like X-Wing where there's only a few core rules and all the remaining stuff is printed on cards anyway.

I hate using PDFs or anything digital at the table. I've always and will always prefer a hardcover, regular formatted book, preferably in German. And yes, I'm willing to pay extra for each and every one of those features. Had to do so for D&D in the past and would do that for other games, too. It's just that much more convenient.
But a Living Rulebook absolutely kills the ability to offer such a book. I'm not going to buy a new version every month, obviously. So thanks, but no, thanks.

Got my Commander pledge today after a false start last week. T

Some lovely sprues and I think the hardback Dropzone Commander rulebook was a bonus freebie that I don't remember being listed in the backer rewards. Shame about the absence of a game box or UCM credit and the scuffed up slipcase but I don't think any of that will affect my enjoyment of the items. For all the delay and frustrations expressed in the Kickstarter comments the models are great quality,

 Tamwulf wrote:
Hawk Wargames is SMALL. Like maybe five full time employees, and several part time. Since they started shipping DFC, I've noticed just about everything else has stopped. No new blogs, no updates on anything except "We're shipping!", next to no communication at all on the forums (where they have always been chatty), release dates for stuff pushed back with no explanation, they haven't answered any of my e-mails except with the automated e-mail of acknowledgement of receipt. No restructure or update on the main website- still no direct links or page for Drop Fleet Commander. On top of that, it's the holidays.

I'm not trying to make excuses for them. It's obvious they were overwhelmed, didn't have the infrastructure or staff to handle shipping out the Kick Starter Pledges AND continue running the company. Add to that the Holidays and I'm surprised they have done even half of what they did. This is not a unique or first time thing either. It's happened to several other smaller mini's companies that ran a hugely successful Kick Starter:

Respectfully, I disagree. If they saw that they were reaching numbers of pledges their staff of five (your estimate) couldn't handle then they should either have budgeted for additional temp staff immediately or closed the campaign early since it funded. Instead, they wanted their cake and to eat it too unfortunately. I posted a few months back in the thread because I thought that Hawk was being tarred unfairly with the same brush as other blatantly dishonest companies but I think the reasonable extra time post retail shipping has past and backers have a genuine right to be pissed now. Ymmv but Hawk still had the chance to hire additional temp workers with the leftover money or even new money from the retail orders they prioritized over backers as well as to correct mistakes with their pledge manager export... from the reports in this thread (not a backer personally as I hitched my wagon to the Halo Fleet Battles fail train) neither seems to have happened to an acceptable degree and a holiday play season was missed by seemingly plenty of the most loyal fans. While I don't attribute any malice on their part (unlike with Prodos or Palladium), I think we're firmly in the "backers are a low priority because of their own lack of planning" phase of fulfillment and I as a gamer can't hand wave that off as acceptable. Ymmv.

nekooni wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
@compel that came direct from a hawk employees mouth at the Cardiff preview day in Firestorm Games.

And Dave has told people at events since launch that Point Defense should be different, that you pull your PD pools together, but without a video or it written anywhere (anywhere being a place that is legit) its all hearsay. Sure, the goal is a perfect book, but that never happens, with any company, ever, as we are humans.

the best thing they could do is make a digital living rulebook for this, and DZC really to edit rules and fix things. Super easy for them, and players. And if you really want, you can print it yourself.

A Living Rulebook is fine for SMALL rulebooks like X-Wing where there's only a few core rules and all the remaining stuff is printed on cards anyway.

I hate using PDFs or anything digital at the table. I've always and will always prefer a hardcover, regular formatted book, preferably in German. And yes, I'm willing to pay extra for each and every one of those features. Had to do so for D&D in the past and would do that for other games, too. It's just that much more convenient.
But a Living Rulebook absolutely kills the ability to offer such a book. I'm not going to buy a new version every month, obviously. So thanks, but no, thanks.

So you prefer buying multiples of the same book, because its physical for you? Seems a little silly. Look at Dropzone 1.0 Lots of errors. Hence why 1.1 was released. Its not fun buying the same thing. Its a digital age. Many games are moving to free rules online, or digital rules. FFG has tons of free/digital rules. (And Descent from FFG is no small game, along with the growing Mansions of Madness 2 and soon to be Imperial assault)

It saves the company a lot of money if they can throw up some PDFs online and let the use print them out for 10 cents or less a page. Its very expensive to edit the book, then send it to be professionally printed out. A lot less people buy it at that point.

If this book was like a normal sized/layout book it wouldn't be bad, but I don't know anyone who enjoys the layout it currently has. Takes up a ton of space. Hence why I use my Ipad to play Dropfleet using dflist.

Also its fine for Hard cover DND books, as they don't really get Errata's since they have gone through the mass versions, and 5th really fixed things. Its also not a war-game. War-games are completive so you need a lot of rule checks. DND is very free flow and use whatever you want to it, so not a good comparison for books.

Yeah, because everyone owns a tablet right? Or likes tapping on the screen like a bird.

I hate tablets. I feel more comfortable using a book. I don't have to worry about charging a book or breaking its screen either, and a 40 dollar book is still cheaper than a 100 dollar fancy screen.

Would I buy the book again? No, but that's why there's such a thing as errata. Hawk does that, and even GW used to do that.

warboss wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
Hawk Wargames is SMALL. Like maybe five full time employees, and several part time. Since they started shipping DFC, I've noticed just about everything else has stopped. No new blogs, no updates on anything except "We're shipping!", next to no communication at all on the forums (where they have always been chatty), release dates for stuff pushed back with no explanation, they haven't answered any of my e-mails except with the automated e-mail of acknowledgement of receipt. No restructure or update on the main website- still no direct links or page for Drop Fleet Commander. On top of that, it's the holidays.

I'm not trying to make excuses for them. It's obvious they were overwhelmed, didn't have the infrastructure or staff to handle shipping out the Kick Starter Pledges AND continue running the company. Add to that the Holidays and I'm surprised they have done even half of what they did. This is not a unique or first time thing either. It's happened to several other smaller mini's companies that ran a hugely successful Kick Starter:

Respectfully, I disagree. If they saw that they were reaching numbers of pledges their staff of five (your estimate) couldn't handle then they should either have budgeted for additional temp staff immediately or closed the campaign early since it funded. Instead, they wanted their cake and to eat it too unfortunately. I posted a few months back in the thread because I thought that Hawk was being tarred unfairly with the same brush as other blatantly dishonest companies but I think the reasonable extra time post retail shipping has past and backers have a genuine right to be pissed now. Ymmv but Hawk still had the chance to hire additional temp workers with the leftover money or even new money from the retail orders they prioritized over backers as well as to correct mistakes with their pledge manager export... from the reports in this thread (not a backer personally as I hitched my wagon to the Halo Fleet Battles fail train) neither seems to have happened to an acceptable degree and a holiday play season was missed by seemingly plenty of the most loyal fans. While I don't attribute any malice on their part (unlike with Prodos or Palladium), I think we're firmly in the "backers are a low priority because of their own lack of planning" phase of fulfillment and I as a gamer can't hand wave that off as acceptable. Ymmv.

You can disagree, but the answer is not as easy as "just hire temp peep". Watch the BoW video where Dave (CEO) goes into depth on why they just cant hire temp people like that. They had 5 before, and have since hired on 3 more people to meet demand. Im not saying they didn't screw up, just its not as easy as youd think. I love the models, and a good 70% of the game itself, but id never in my life back another hawk KS. Fool me once...

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Yeah, because everyone owns a tablet right? Or likes tapping on the screen like a bird.

I hate tablets. I feel more comfortable using a book. I don't have to worry about charging a book or breaking its screen either, and a 40 dollar book is still cheaper than a 100 dollar fancy screen.

Would I buy the book again? No, but that's why there's such a thing as errata. Hawk does that, and even GW used to do that.

I said I use a tablet, its very convenient for me. Not forcing anyone else to. But its far easier to update then a physical book. I can have a book marked rulebook and army list all there and hardly take up space. I also don't "peck it like a bird". Use what you like, but the book is a fail. Judging by this, I'm guessing you use a flip phone still? As you'd be doing the same on a phone as you would the hated tablet tablet...

There is quite a lot to errata, so I easily see them doing a 1.1 version, just like Dropzone has.

I agree and understand that a digital update is needed for the surprising amount of issues in the current rulebook.

However I don't own or want a tablet and my phone has buttons (!) so I will have to print it off. Personally I would prefer a new book