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I think a discussion similar to this has taken place either here or on reddit, but I can't really find it.

With the End Times in WHFB, it seems like GW is willing to move the story forward - so I'm hoping that there will be some developments in the 40k universe as well.

What are the chances that SOME of the Thousand Sons can be redeemed?

In fact, let me back up and ask a deeper question - how much have most of the Thousand Sons actually embraced Chaos? From the Thousand Sons book, it seemed like they didn't embrace Chaos as fervently as other traitor legions, and the Rubric of Ahriman seems to point to the fact that they had some desire to retain their humanity. Now, I can't say I'm well versed in the fluff - especially what has transpired in the last millennium since the heresy, so I'm ready to be corrected.

Assuming that any of them would want to return to the IoM, what are the chances that A) Magnus, B)Ahriman or C) Some of the Thousand Sons that haven't become mindless automatons could be redeemed and rejoin the IoM?

edit: And if the Thousand Sons cannot be redeemed, is there a chance that some of the Thousand Sons could make a formal break from Chaos/Tzeentch? ie having their own agenda but not fighting against the IoM (except SW)?

Most of the Thousand Sons do not believe in good and evil, you have to understand. They just believe in actions and the consequences that are caused by those actions.

What do you mean exactly by redeemed?

 changerofways wrote:

What do you mean exactly by redeemed?

This is a very relevant question. Maybe I should define both "Redeemed" and "Some" lol.

By "Some" I mean as few as a handful of Thousand Sons being redeemed. By "Redeemed" I guess I mean formally breaking from Chaos, leaving the Planet of the Sorcerers, and swearing allegiance to the Emperor.

And btw, I know this would totally mess up the game. The Thousand Sons would no longer be in the CSM codex, you couldn't take demon princes anymore etc etc. This is just a hypothetical question about the fluff - because I love this stuff and stay up at night thinking about it (I really do).

 changerofways wrote:
Most of the Thousand Sons do not believe in good and evil, you have to understand. They just believe in actions and the consequences that are caused by those actions.

When did this change occur? At least pre-heresy, they seemed to be very involved with what was good and evil.

Those Thousand Sons who are still sentient have no interest in joining with the Imperium or seeking forgiveness from the Emperor. Most of them, though, are empty suits of power armor.

I mostly mean that they don't view Daemons as Daemons and they don't view Chaos as either good or evil, just a force of nature. There is a quote out there somewhere where Magnus and Ahriman are talking, and they agree that Daemon is a word of ignorance that is used by people who do not understand the Universe.

But I also mean it a bit at its face value. They are a very scientific people, and they understand that morality is subjective and not determined by some deity.

Back on topic, do I think they will abandon their "dark magic?" (I quote dark magic because it is only what followers of the IoM call it) No. To quote Ahriman: "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."
To reject "dark magic" and hide it away is to embrace faith and ignorance, which is against the core values of the culture of Prospero.

Will thousand sons keep their "dark magic", but fight for the IoM? No, I don't think so. I mean, if you could find some particularly forgiving Thousand Sons, maybe. But they were wronged, and they have lots of pride, and long memories. Most of the pre-heresy Thousand Sons are still alive as many of them are Rubrics, and others have life-extending magical powers.

If they're Rubrics, they're not really "alive"... they're a walking suit of empty armor. Automata, basically.

Why should men, who finaly have the possibility to learn everything they have ever wanted ever desire to crawl back to the ignorant and rotten travesty that is (and has always been) the Imperium of Man and the mostly dead butcher who calls himself "Emperor"? For the 1k sons morality is something for the stupid and even if one of them would ever seek to atone for his deeds, what forgiveness could come from the lackeys of an Empire which was built on the bones of the innocent and has managed to descent even further into corruption, mindless cruelty and willful ignorance?

Most of the Legion are nothing but animate suits of armor. Of those left, not only have they been in the service and thrall of the forces of Chaos for longer than there has been written human history, but one has to remember, they were *attacked* and cast out by the Imperium for attempting to help the Imperium. There is zero incentive for them to return, and zero reason for the Imperium to take them back. These are guys who have been nursing a (well deserved) grudge for millenia.

No, there's no way any could, or would even want, to be "redeemed".

if i could reintroduce the thousand sons back into the imperium i would do it by the following...

for some reason or another chaos is about to access the sol system and unleash chaos on earth... and deamon prince magnus somehow overcomes his chaosiness and tells the imperium of the oncoming chaos attack and sides with the imperium to help them out...

that would be pretty boss...

ok haters... RIP IN TO ME!!!!

Well, redemption is kind of a relative term.
Redeemed in the eyes of their primarch, or redeemed in the eyes of The Emperor?

Magnus fethed things up in an attempt to save the Imperium, and has been throwing a pity party for himself for the last 10k+ years.
Ahriman has fully welcomed the blessings of Tzeentch, and many others along with him, not to mention the Rubricae, whose souls are forever lost to the warp as far as we know.
I haven't read any recent fluff on the matter, but I feel like none of the traitors can really be redeemed in the eyes of the Emperor.

 chuckz1487 wrote:
if i could reintroduce the thousand sons back into the imperium i would do it by the following...

for some reason or another chaos is about to access the sol system and unleash chaos on earth... and deamon prince magnus somehow overcomes his chaosiness and tells the imperium of the oncoming chaos attack and sides with the imperium to help them out...

that would be pretty boss...

ok haters... RIP IN TO ME!!!!

Yet why should Magnus do such a thing? What is there on earth worth saving? Of course Magnus might resent the idea of someone else ripping the vegetable from it's golden toiletseat and might therefore decide that some behind the scenes work might be in order. Yet a return to the hated Imperium that is everything Magnus and his children detest seems a bit far fetched.

Redeemed Thousand Sons?

You've got Blood Ravens. Close enough

Some already did. Look at the Blood Ravens.

AFAIK there is zero evidence beyond fan-conjecture regarding the Thousand Sons and the Blood Ravens link, unless there's something I've missed...

It's likely that sometime within a couple of years to a couple of centuries after the Heresy, some Thousand Sons wanted to return to the Imperium (likely the Terran-native ones), and were accepted by some surviving Primarch after rigorous combing through of their brains by librarians. Then, they were turned into the Blood Ravens Chapter.

Well as some have already said, many of the 1K Sons are just walking suits of armor so there's nothing left to redeem especially.

As for not working willingly for Chaos, I know it used to be suggested that Arhiman has his own agenda, or at least believes he does.

Now could the 1K Sons someday suddenly assist the IoM in repelling some sort of Chaos invasion? Actually, considering they're pawns of Tzeentch, and he might well decide to eff over the other Chaos gods on the verge of victory, if only for the sake of Change. Perhaps that was his idea all along, in turning the 1K Sons to Chaos, to get them inside the the trusted armies of Abbadon's next Black Crusade...only to turn on them at the last moment...

Just as Planned!

Stop iterating the same line, Not all of the Sons are rubricae.

Never, they are traitors 10,000 years old and expoasure to chaos.

The only redemption must traitors get is a clean death

Only about two thirds of the Legion actively serve Tzeentch and/or Magnus. Of the remainder, a significant faction are actively working against Magnus and/or to destroy Tzeentch (Ahriman's faction), with the scattered remnants mostly being individuals with their own agendas, some of whom follow Tzeentch, some of whom disavow chaos entirely or follow other gods.

Rejoining the Imperium? Highly unlikely, the Imperium has very little to offer them that they can't steal or subvert, and unlike the other Chaos marine forces, every single one of them remembers the Imperium's utter betrayal of them.

 chuckz1487 wrote:
if i could reintroduce the thousand sons back into the imperium i would do it by the following...

for some reason or another chaos is about to access the sol system and unleash chaos on earth... and deamon prince magnus somehow overcomes his chaosiness and tells the imperium of the oncoming chaos attack and sides with the imperium to help them out...

that would be pretty boss...

ok haters... RIP IN TO ME!!!!

Many of the remaining Thousand Sons don't care what Magnus thinks.

Khonsu wrote:
Stop iterating the same line, Not all of the Sons are rubricae.

I don't think anybody said all, but a sizable enough portion to be noteworthy.
I think it's very important to remember that the Thousand Sons are not a monolith, and that many probably wouldn't have anything to do with Ahriman or Magnus were it up to them.

Magnus is in his tower, broken and bitter, and Ahriman destroyed the souls of many battle brothers.

If I were a Thousand Sons space marine, I wouldn't want much to do with either of them.

But you really wouldn't want to go back to the Imperium, because all there is there for you is a long, agonizing death at the hands of the Inquisition.

I would say no. The order to annihalate them came from the emperor. No inquisitor would dare to counter that order

The only ones who would dare would be a primarch. And even then a lot would disagree

 dusara217 wrote:
It's likely that sometime within a couple of years to a couple of centuries after the Heresy, some Thousand Sons wanted to return to the Imperium (likely the Terran-native ones), and were accepted by some surviving Primarch after rigorous combing through of their brains by librarians. Then, they were turned into the Blood Ravens Chapter.

The guys that have some hints/evidence/implications that they'll become the Blood Ravens (the splinter group of TS that were sent away from Prospero and thus not there when the wolves attacked) are actively contacting various loyalist primarchs even DURING the Heresy, actually, as of the rather recent HH novel Scars.

No. This is an easy one.

It's been 10,000 years since the Heresy.

Any Thousand Sons Marine still alive has spent the last ten millennia in the Warp. If they were redeemable, they've been dead for thousands of years.

Short answer: no.

Thanks to Bruva Alfabusa we now know that Magnus the red can be redeemed by the Emprah.

 Vaktathi wrote:
AFAIK there is zero evidence beyond fan-conjecture regarding the Thousand Sons and the Blood Ravens link, unless there's something I've missed...

Welcome to 90% of 40K lore and the problems derived from it.

 HillyKarma wrote:

Khonsu wrote:
Stop iterating the same line, Not all of the Sons are rubricae.

I don't think anybody said all, but a sizable enough portion to be noteworthy.
I think it's very important to remember that the Thousand Sons are not a monolith, and that many probably wouldn't have anything to do with Ahriman or Magnus were it up to them.

Magnus is in his tower, broken and bitter, and Ahriman destroyed the souls of many battle brothers.

If I were a Thousand Sons space marine, I wouldn't want much to do with either of them.

Says the (now) walking automaton