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2014/12/17 23:34:35
Subject: Could BOTH of the twin primarchs still be alive?
Though I haven't read it myself, a friend told me that some of the new fluff brings doubt to the certainty that previously surrounded Roboute killing Alpharius.
Any more info or speculation to add about this?
2014/12/18 00:27:22
Subject: Re:Could BOTH of the twin primarchs still be alive?
HillyKarma wrote: Though I haven't read it myself, a friend told me that some of the new fluff brings doubt to the certainty that previously surrounded Roboute killing Alpharius.
Any more info or speculation to add about this?
It actually does seem likely, as Alpharius and Omegon had many stunt doubles, and almost never acted as themselves. Sometimes Omegon went as Alpharius while Alpharius went as Omegon, sometimes Alpharius acted as just a trusted commander while an Astartes acted as him, sometimes alpharius and OMegon weren't even present, it was just somebody Alpharius/Omegon had ordered to impersonate them.
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
We must all join the Kroot-startes...
2014/12/18 04:41:24
Subject: Could BOTH of the twin primarchs still be alive?
Frankly at this point Alpharius and Omegon could both be alive, one or both be dead, or the entire Alpha Legion is nothing but a myth used by planetary governors or commanders to cover up their own failures.
"Yeah I was going to send the annual planetary tithe but that darned Alpha Legion showed up out of nowhere and took it all. No, no...don't bother looking for them. Too crafty. Oh well....we'll try again next year"
"Witch Hunters get bitchin' pimp hats"
2014/12/18 05:03:12
Subject: Could BOTH of the twin primarchs still be alive?
The Alpha Legion do not understand themselves either, It's fine.
"Why? It is as I have already said, We knew from the beginning we could not stand, But it did not matter, 'Iron Within, Iron Without'. We made them pay".
2014/12/18 07:43:07
Subject: Could BOTH of the twin primarchs still be alive?
At the same time.... I can see a space marine impersonating Alpharius to a Governor, Lord Commander or maybe even another space marine.
I don't think it'd fool another Primarch - Gulliman may not have known that there were two primarchs, and may not have known which was which, but he'd have noticed if it was just a space marine in fancy armour.
Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
2014/12/18 08:31:33
Subject: Could BOTH of the twin primarchs still be alive?
Don,t the primarchs themselves have a aautmatic sense of each other?
When alpharus breaks onto Horus flagship, they realise there brothers almost and Horus does not shoot him like the other 4 with him.
And they at this point do not know each other or identies.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
2014/12/18 12:23:06
Subject: Could BOTH of the twin primarchs still be alive?
jhe90 wrote: Don,t the primarchs themselves have a aautmatic sense of each other?
When alpharus breaks onto Horus flagship, they realise there brothers almost and Horus does not shoot him like the other 4 with him.
And they at this point do not know each other or identies.
Horus is often described as having that sort of "sense" of other people, but I don't know if it's true of other Primarchs.
2014/12/18 13:06:00
Subject: Could BOTH of the twin primarchs still be alive?
locarno24 wrote: At the same time.... I can see a space marine impersonating Alpharius to a Governor, Lord Commander or maybe even another space marine.
I don't think it'd fool another Primarch - Gulliman may not have known that there were two primarchs, and may not have known which was which, but he'd have noticed if it was just a space marine in fancy armour.
They did actually. Alpharius/Omegon sent normal SMs to be them. The only person to always recognise them (bar maybe the Emperor) was John Grammaticus.
With regards to the Horus incident I have no idea why they recognised each other, but later they could get away with it.
I think a BL author confirmed that one of them died to Roboute, but I can't seem to find the quote.
If so, the real question is whether it was Omegon or Alpharius that survived.
2014/12/18 13:11:57
Subject: Re:Could BOTH of the twin primarchs still be alive?
The whole "Roboute Killed Alpharius - not!" was pre-Omegon.
Back then, it was pretty much stated (OK, strongly implied) that Alpharius was still alive.
Or at least wasn't killed by Ultra-Primarch.
Now?
Who knows!
But I don't think that the BL writers will be able to resist the DRAMA of having the only TRUE brothers have their own civil war in the midst of the Civil War that is the Horus Heresy.
I think that the surviving brother will 'become' "Alpharius" - whether or not he's actually...Alpharius.
2014/12/20 00:35:55
Subject: Could BOTH of the twin primarchs still be alive?
locarno24 wrote: At the same time.... I can see a space marine impersonating Alpharius to a Governor, Lord Commander or maybe even another space marine.
I don't think it'd fool another Primarch - Gulliman may not have known that there were two primarchs, and may not have known which was which, but he'd have noticed if it was just a space marine in fancy armour.
There was one Space Marine who looked like an identical triplet to Alpharius/Omegon, except for minor differences in his facial expressions, minute differences in accent, etc. etc. But he still looked exactly the same as they did as far as phenotypes go.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/20 00:36:19
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
We must all join the Kroot-startes...
2014/12/20 01:40:48
Subject: Could BOTH of the twin primarchs still be alive?
But I don't think that the BL writers will be able to resist the DRAMA of having the only TRUE brothers have their own civil war in the midst of the Civil War that is the Horus Heresy.
I think that the surviving brother will 'become' "Alpharius" - whether or not he's actually...Alpharius.
That's what I'm thinking too. Retconning and inconsistencies isn't a problem for BL/GW.
2014/12/20 01:55:39
Subject: Could BOTH of the twin primarchs still be alive?
locarno24 wrote: At the same time.... I can see a space marine impersonating Alpharius to a Governor, Lord Commander or maybe even another space marine.
I don't think it'd fool another Primarch - Gulliman may not have known that there were two primarchs, and may not have known which was which, but he'd have noticed if it was just a space marine in fancy armour.
There was one Space Marine who looked like an identical triplet to Alpharius/Omegon, except for minor differences in his facial expressions, minute differences in accent, etc. etc. But he still looked exactly the same as they did as far as phenotypes go.
Think you're thinking of Sheed Ranko who matched the Primarchs in stature (possibly one of several but seems to have been the most commonly used as a double especially by Omegon). Ranko died however in the Tenebrae (Suicide) Mission which is in the collection of shorts The Primarchs. Don't believe there was anything to indicate that he looked remotely close to Alpharius/Omegon but he could impersonate them with ease as long as he had his helmet on and - in certain cases - drank some of their blood (which is what he does prior to the Tenebrae Mission to act as Omegon whilst heading the mission). His portrayal is so accurate, that his brothers in arms don't realize that the Omegon they're following is actually Ranko until he removes his helmet at the end.
Anyway, as far as I know, he's the only double mentioned in BL's works.
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
2014/12/20 02:20:00
Subject: Could BOTH of the twin primarchs still be alive?
locarno24 wrote: At the same time.... I can see a space marine impersonating Alpharius to a Governor, Lord Commander or maybe even another space marine.
I don't think it'd fool another Primarch - Gulliman may not have known that there were two primarchs, and may not have known which was which, but he'd have noticed if it was just a space marine in fancy armour.
There was one Space Marine who looked like an identical triplet to Alpharius/Omegon, except for minor differences in his facial expressions, minute differences in accent, etc. etc. But he still looked exactly the same as they did as far as phenotypes go.
Think you're thinking of Sheed Ranko who matched the Primarchs in stature (possibly one of several but seems to have been the most commonly used as a double especially by Omegon). Ranko died however in the Tenebrae (Suicide) Mission which is in the collection of shorts The Primarchs. Don't believe there was anything to indicate that he looked remotely close to Alpharius/Omegon but he could impersonate them with ease as long as he had his helmet on and - in certain cases - drank some of their blood (which is what he does prior to the Tenebrae Mission to act as Omegon whilst heading the mission). His portrayal is so accurate, that his brothers in arms don't realize that the Omegon they're following is actually Ranko until he removes his helmet at the end.
Anyway, as far as I know, he's the only double mentioned in BL's works.
But it doesn't seem too outlandish to think they would have more than just that one, right?
2014/12/20 02:39:30
Subject: Could BOTH of the twin primarchs still be alive?
locarno24 wrote: At the same time.... I can see a space marine impersonating Alpharius to a Governor, Lord Commander or maybe even another space marine.
I don't think it'd fool another Primarch - Gulliman may not have known that there were two primarchs, and may not have known which was which, but he'd have noticed if it was just a space marine in fancy armour.
There was one Space Marine who looked like an identical triplet to Alpharius/Omegon, except for minor differences in his facial expressions, minute differences in accent, etc. etc. But he still looked exactly the same as they did as far as phenotypes go.
Think you're thinking of Sheed Ranko who matched the Primarchs in stature (possibly one of several but seems to have been the most commonly used as a double especially by Omegon). Ranko died however in the Tenebrae (Suicide) Mission which is in the collection of shorts The Primarchs. Don't believe there was anything to indicate that he looked remotely close to Alpharius/Omegon but he could impersonate them with ease as long as he had his helmet on and - in certain cases - drank some of their blood (which is what he does prior to the Tenebrae Mission to act as Omegon whilst heading the mission). His portrayal is so accurate, that his brothers in arms don't realize that the Omegon they're following is actually Ranko until he removes his helmet at the end.
Anyway, as far as I know, he's the only double mentioned in BL's works.
But it doesn't seem too outlandish to think they would have more than just that one, right?
Definitely not outlandish, in the book Legion, it makes it clear that Alpha Legionnaires generally go out of their way to look as close to their primarchs as possible and as I said, Sheed Ranko was probably one of several (Don't know if has been retconned but while Alpharius and Omegon were the smallest of the Primarchs, quite a few of the Alpha Legionnaires were noted to be noticeably larger than the average Space Marine).
However, as shown by one of the Lucifer Blacks in Legion, under scrutiny, one could differentiate between the Legionnaires and their Primarchs... as long as they weren't roughly the same size as their primarchs nor helmeted (aforementioned Lucifer Black is intrigued and puzzles over Sheed Ranko - who is under the guise of Omegon while Omegon is pretending to be Alpharius - who is helmeted but is clearly of similar if not the same stature as Omegon)
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
2014/12/20 02:49:18
Subject: Could BOTH of the twin primarchs still be alive?
Alpharius wrote: It may or may not have been retconned - that's the rather lame cop-out answer BL gives.
Back in the IA article on the Alpha Legion, Alpharius was almost as tall as Horus, and his Legion was noted for having unusually tall Marines.
Now?
I guess they're a bit on the short side (for a Primarch?) but his Marines are still on the tall side.
Maybe?
Can you answer for us Lord Alpharius?
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
2014/12/20 04:02:02
Subject: Could BOTH of the twin primarchs still be alive?
The short answer is that no-one knows. Definitive information on where the Alpha Legion is at/what the hell they are doing in the 41st millennium is pretty nebulous. It's likely there won't be any definitive info until the Horus Heresy series is over, or until we get some solid information in the form of a 41st millennium Legion book.
Even then, it's more fun for it to be an unknown; it's more fitting.
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