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Very elegant, too, Whembly. All it does further than the already-extant LVO/BAO ban list is take those very same units and let them be used, but with their reasons for BEING banned taken from 11 down to 8.

 whembly wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:

1) Adding a rule that simply prevents D weapons and weapons with a hellstorm template or blast larger than 5" from reducing a cover

This right here... I think that's the "sweet spot" Mike.

Question for consideration - reducing cover for D Str weapons, Hellstorm templates or 5"+ blasts, doesn't this boost the super-competitive desirability of both Eldar/Tau armies? Whereas keeping this as it is in 7th Edition, which is already nerfed from it's former incarnation, might discourage auto-taking Eldar/Tau or any other mass Ignores Cover army and encourage more balanced choices?

notbriang wrote:

 whembly wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:

1) Adding a rule that simply prevents D weapons and weapons with a hellstorm template or blast larger than 5" from reducing a cover

This right here... I think that's the "sweet spot" Mike.

Question for consideration - reducing cover for D Str weapons, Hellstorm templates or 5"+ blasts, doesn't this boost the super-competitive desirability of both Eldar/Tau armies? Whereas keeping this as it is in 7th Edition, which is already nerfed from it's former incarnation, might discourage auto-taking Eldar/Tau or any other mass Ignores Cover army and encourage more balanced choices?

I'm not sure that it does. Serpents and certain Tau builds are going to be mighty powerful and super desirable no matter where you go, while still respectful of the fact different local metas behave differently. Additionally, if the rationale is that 'large powerful cover save ignoring weapons on superheavies/gargs = bad and in need of banning,' and your rationale is that their inclusion reduces the occurrence of "super-competitive Tau and Eldar armies" ... then by legalizing them while weakening their guns somewhat, we are still pushing away from Eldar/Tau more so than most other events, where these weapons/units are simply outright banned.

Further, by having an elegant cover-all rule (that may require tweaking and eval for sure if adopted at all), we also prevent saying "no" to 90% of the perceived problems while missing new additions that slip under the rug.

Also, keep in mind that there are a hundred things "wrong" or "powerful" about certain things in 40k - few people would argue it's a meaningfully balanced game, and fewer still who've tried a game like ... oh, I don't know, Malifaux. That said, there are still plenty of armies that can compete at the highest level, and very good event format design in terms of Bracketing, etc., that helps with those who don't want to bring them. The rationale behind addressing these particular weapons/abilities is their mass unpopularity and resistance to "letting them in in the first place" ... serpents are in the game, and there's widespread dislike for their potency combined with general resistance to banning or modifying stuff that's "already in." These weapons are banned at nearly every event as is, including the current iterations of the LVO/BAO and NOVA formats, which are the most broadly used. Ipso facto, this rule is both more elegant than a ban list, and takes steps toward opening the game up more .... not restricting it. It targets abilities/weapons/units that are currently not allowed in most places at all.

You move D weapons down to S10/AP1 and you're going to see a number of armies and 'stars get MUCH more competitive. Tau for one benefits immensely because we don't ever use D weapons really anyway (point cost just isn't right to bring ours) and have plenty of fantastic shooting options anyway. Stars and big invuln save models also love this change.

I'd be heavily against changing D weapons to S/AP. Even though my lists would certainly enjoy seeing it, I think it would have an immense change on the meta, and not for the better.

That wasn't suggested / isn't being considered

Fourth NOVA coming up for me...stoked already...It should be said that no matter what the Grand Tournament rules end up being there are an absolute plethora of other things to do at NOVA, 40K or not...The Narrative is absolutely killer...every table you come to at the Narrative, both players are having a blast...I watched the narrative this past year and marveled at how much fun everyone was having...win or lose...Pick up 40k this year, which sounds like a lot of fun if you just can't get enough...not to mention all the other game systems...and the lounge...ohhh...the lounge...the NOVA just rocks...Due to work constraints this year I am getting to attend one event and I choose to drive 10 hours to attend this one...that is how much I suggest it...so...here is my two cents if I get that much to spend...

Forge world opens up alot of cool models, keep it at 0-1 unique and it should do nothing but add fun and variety to the game

I am a fan of 2 detachments...end of story...with that being said I also am on a limb in that I think battle brothers should be gotten rid of...whatever the NOVA brass comes up with will be in the interest of the attendees ...so I am all in on their decisions...

I also see nothing wrong with a limited list of LOW...IMO knights are essentially a LOW...if knights get to play...so should LOW...adlance players should be allowed to play with their toys...and doused with rotten tomatoes from the jeering crowd, all the same...IMO the boys at FLG got a good list to start from...with that being said...once again...whatever the crew comes up with will be in every attendees interest...

As I have stated concerning FLG's tourney format...these gents and everyone on the NOVA crew go to the greatest lengths to put on the best events possible for everyone while risking financial ruin as a result of a failed event...everyone should shake their hands when at one of their events...they put up their hard work and everything else for the attendees...so whatever tourney format they come up generally speaking makes me super happy...cuz well...there is an awesome event to attend and have a blast at...

C everyone at the NOVA...wish it was next week!!

You're the man, KS. How much do I have to pay you for more of your salsa this year?

In good news, in addition to the regular opening of registration on Feb 1 and the flurry of instant SuperNOVA sales and other things, we've got a few things you should keep careful eye on:

Roman Lappat and Raffaele Picca of Massive Voodoo are teaching 4 classes apiece. These classes are being offered twice by each instructor during the con. The best times will sell VERY fast, and we can't expand class size once sold out. Don't miss these.

Also, Frontline Gaming will again be partnering with us to offer their gaming mats for sale through the NOVA Open webstore (Which is receiving a major update). The advantage to acquiring the mats through NOVA is you can pick them up at the con, ready to go and without having to pay for shipping. This should include their new swanky Malifaux mats and other things. Check it out when reg goes live!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS / Edit - We're also finalizing details for further expansion to the art and hobby side of the NOVA in the form of a Grex-sponsored speed painting competition. You'll be given a total time of 3 hours (possibly 2, we're in rules discussion now) to paint a tank from start to finish, with free use of a Grex paint station set up at the con for each competitor ... brand new Grex demo airbrush, paints, the works. The competition will be judged by Justin McCoy, Roman, and Raffa to boot!

MVBrandt wrote:
That wasn't suggested / isn't being considered

Apologies Mike, not sure why but I thought it had been mentioned earlier in the thread by another player. I'd have been against it in either case as we might as well just play 6th edition pre-escalation with solutions like that.

Sounds like some fun stuff on the hobby side coming up! I'm normally all on the gaming side, but you're making it awful interesting over there!

GreyDragoon wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:
That wasn't suggested / isn't being considered

Apologies Mike, not sure why but I thought it had been mentioned earlier in the thread by another player. I'd have been against it in either case as we might as well just play 6th edition pre-escalation with solutions like that.

Sounds like some fun stuff on the hobby side coming up! I'm normally all on the gaming side, but you're making it awful interesting over there!

The consideration was basically just making it so that "6" results on stomps and d attacks ... as well as any attack from a greater than 5" blast or a hellstorm template, would in total never be able to completely ignore invuls/cover, instead giving units affected by them a single non-rerollable 5+ save against them.

So, wordsmithing needs to be done if we went that way, but it would basically be ...

You have a model with a 5+ or better invul that got stomped and he rolled a 6? You get a 5+ to ignore the effect.
You have a model with a 5+ or better cover save that got hit by a D weapon that rolled a 6? You get your 5+ cover save.
You have a model with a 5+ or better cover save that got hit by a S10AP1 Hellstorm? You get your 5+ cover save.

This would basically legalize everything that to date has been rendered illegal due to fears of big hellstorms/etc., and also slightly soften the blow of widespread superheavy introduction to the East Coast / NOVA meta, without requiring players to keep up with an ever-changing ban/legal list.

It's food for thought at this point at present, but it is NOT being considered to turn D into S10AP1, nor take away multi-wounds, nor anything like that. It would simply make it so that the heaviest hitting, most one-sided/non-interactive "pick up all your models" abilities/effects would be tuned from 11 down to 8.

I just want to chip in and say I now really, REALLY like that compromise.

I'd prefer to just allow 'em all with no adjustments, but you know your participants and you'd have to cater to their desires.

Good idea man and it follows the KISS principle.

So who doesn't play tournaments much, is really into figure painting, but ISN'T coming to NOVA?

Because ... this year ...

The NOVA Open is holding at least 44 distinct hobby seminars. These include classes taught by some of the best artists and teachers on the planet, including Justin McCoy, Roman Lappat, Raffaele Picca, and Caleb Wissenback.

Here's some sneak teasers of class subjects included ...
Airbrushing Miniatures
1-on-1 Paint Your Own Model w/ a Pro
Intro to Competition/Display Painting
Using Pigments on Miniatures
Weathering Techniques
Freehand Secrets
From Primer to Tabletop
Intro to Blending
The Nurgle Effect
Maximize Your Appearance Score
Theory - Contrast, Zenithal Light, Color on Miniatures
Creating Cool Gaming Bases
Wet and Wet Painting Techniques on Gaming Bases and Miniatures
Painting Leather and Metals
Sculpting and Conversions
OSL and Effects
Painting Faster, Better Models Using Focus Areas
Painting Faces
Build and Take Your Display Board
Advanced Display Boards - Build *and Light* and Take Your Display Board
Learn to Build Terrain
Advanced Terrain Building
Cogs and Cobblestones - Steampunkifying Terrain
Corvus Belli - Inside Infinity
Corvus Belli - World First Reveal and Discussion
Malifaux and Game Design
Running a Successful Tabletop Wargaming Open Beta
Introduction to Using LEDs with Miniatures
Build and Light Your Model
The Hitchhiker's Guide to a Successful GT Experience
... and more

In addition to all of these formal seminars, there are also nonstop lounge talks given all weekend long for free in our charity lounge.

You could fill every inch of your schedule, and learn everything above and more, without ever rolling a single dice for a single game. What's doubly cool is you can do both - the seminars are almost all taught more than once, and they are scheduled to allow for either a "seminar-first" convention experience, or a "gaming-first" convention experience.

Registration opens on Feb 1. We'll reveal the formal class schedule and who is teaching what in our Jan 15 newsletter. You'll want to especially take note of classes by Roman and Raffa, and the primetime / ideal time frame classes taught by McCoy ... many will sell out very, very quickly, based upon last year's trends.

MVBrandt wrote:
You have a model with a 5+ or better invul that got stomped and he rolled a 6? You get a 5+ to ignore the effect.
You have a model with a 5+ or better cover save that got hit by a D weapon that rolled a 6? You get your 5+ cover save.
You have a model with a 5+ or better cover save that got hit by a S10AP1 Hellstorm? You get your 5+ cover save.

Perhaps consider adding (or preserving, if the rule already exists):

"Absolutely no re-rolls for these 5+ saves."
"No FNP rolls allowed versus a strength D attack (that rolled a '6')."
"If you fail a 5+ versus a strength D attack (that rolled a '6'), your model is removed from play, whether or not it has the Eternal Warrior Characteristic."

MVBrandt wrote:

GreyDragoon wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:
That wasn't suggested / isn't being considered

Apologies Mike, not sure why but I thought it had been mentioned earlier in the thread by another player. I'd have been against it in either case as we might as well just play 6th edition pre-escalation with solutions like that.

Sounds like some fun stuff on the hobby side coming up! I'm normally all on the gaming side, but you're making it awful interesting over there!

The consideration was basically just making it so that "6" results on stomps and d attacks ... as well as any attack from a greater than 5" blast or a hellstorm template, would in total never be able to completely ignore invuls/cover, instead giving units affected by them a single non-rerollable 5+ save against them.

So, wordsmithing needs to be done if we went that way, but it would basically be ...

You have a model with a 5+ or better invul that got stomped and he rolled a 6? You get a 5+ to ignore the effect.
You have a model with a 5+ or better cover save that got hit by a D weapon that rolled a 6? You get your 5+ cover save.
You have a model with a 5+ or better cover save that got hit by a S10AP1 Hellstorm? You get your 5+ cover save.

This would basically legalize everything that to date has been rendered illegal due to fears of big hellstorms/etc., and also slightly soften the blow of widespread superheavy introduction to the East Coast / NOVA meta, without requiring players to keep up with an ever-changing ban/legal list.

It's food for thought at this point at present, but it is NOT being considered to turn D into S10AP1, nor take away multi-wounds, nor anything like that. It would simply make it so that the heaviest hitting, most one-sided/non-interactive "pick up all your models" abilities/effects would be tuned from 11 down to 8.

I gotta say, this compromise is probably the lesser of two evils. It's simple and elegant, compared to the labrynthine and gossamer task of tailoring an objective ban list. This is the scalpel to the hatchet.

/thumbs up

Looks like we will have a full suite of DropZone Commander Events at NOVA Open this year!

Also, quite exciting, but our SuperNOVA Bags, which are already some of the coolest VIP bags on the planet, will now have one of these in EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM:
http://www.hawkwargames.com/products/core-shaltari-starter-army-in-plastic

http://www.hawkwargames.com/products/core-phr-starter-army-in-plastic

http://www.hawkwargames.com/products/core-scourge-starter-army-in-plastic

http://www.hawkwargames.com/products/core-ucm-starter-army-in-plastic

that is pretty sick mike nice job!

iNcontroL wrote:
that is pretty sick mike nice job!

Thanks, Geoff!

In addition all the crazy stuff announced in our newsletter, Cool Mini or Not will be running sales, vendoring, and also running tournaments at the NOVA this year, including Wrath of Kings.

Additionally, most of our event systems have added what we call Critical Mass Events, or CMEs. CMEs are basically 8-man tournaments with a more streamlined and casual feel to them, as well as a smaller cost, that do not require preregistration (in fact, don't allow it). Instead, the "start times" of CMEs are listed on the NOVA schedule, and events fire (or multiple events fire simultaneously) for each set of 8 players ready to go. Registration is done on site with a couple of smart phone clicks, and prizes are streamlined (more than double your money for going 3-0 in the 8-man quick tourney, and getting your money back if you go 0-3). This is meant to increase the opportunity for people to try out different game systems or secondary passions while still participating in major events, seminars, etc., while at the NOVA.

Reminder that registration is very close - basically 10 days away. We'll be opening registration at 9:30AM on February 1, and it's important that you note SuperNOVA registrations will vanish very quickly (they sold out in a few hours last year). This is also true for Roman and Raffa's courses, spots in the Malifaux National Championships, spots in the Narrative Warlord track events, and more. Every year, more and more things sell out pretty much when reg opens - don't miss out!

Well, the SuperNOVA bags just got crazier. There may be yet another game system's $70 starter kit now in each of them ... on top of the Dropzone Commander starter kits ... on top of hundreds of dollars in other custom and unique swag ... on top of the KR BOGO ... on top of the KR bag itself that you get with the SuperNOVA reg ...


So, yeah. Be ready to snag yours at 9:30AM US EST in just a few days. Registration opens February 1.

40k ARMY construction near-to-rules:

http://whiskey40k.blogspot.com/2015/01/army-construction-narrowing-40k-gt-army.html?showComment=1422291023083#c4891103543453810598

So we're getting close to finalizing what we want to do for the 40K GT this year.

This has been a LONG process, with a great deal of input. I think it's possible some minor things will change as we get closer. It's also possible we'll get a bunch more input in the next few days. We'll release the final rules the day before registration opens (Reg opens this coming Sunday at 9:30AM US EST Time).

Here's where we're at presently:

On the question of detachments -
Battle-Forged Rules using 2 Detachments, with no caveats or further restrictions

On the question of Forge World -
All Forge World units legal, but all are considered Unique / 0-1*
* - We might develop a very small ban list for some FW units if we go this route, TBD

On the question of Lords of War / Super Heavies / Gargantuans -
Lord of War Superheavies/Gargantuans ... we're leaning toward keeping them OUT. They were almost universally panned by last year's attendees in the events they were allowed in. This included very large samples of more casual attendees. Adding more big, expensive models to the game when more casual players are opposed to them / did not enjoy playing against them seems like a bone to more competitive-minded players who are going to play top tier lists in almost any meta alignment. We did not receive a great deal of positive support for allowing Superheavies/Gargantuans beyond Codex: Knights.

Non-superheavy/gargantuan Lords of War ... definitely will be allowed.

Knights - We are strongly leaning toward BANNING the Adamantine Lance, but otherwise allowing Knights, inclusive of FW Knights subbing into the Knight Detachment per their rules (they'd still be "Unique" and follow the restriction above when trying to use them as Lords of War). The reason for banning Adamantine Lance is similar to the Lords of War question. There's a TON of visceral evidence from Torrent of Fire, NOVA itself, and more that shows AdLance players doing no better or worse for having it at the top tier, but running over players throughout the mid and low tiers of tournament attendees. MOST attendees are not hyper competitive, most are there to have a great time and do their best. AdLance lists are winning between 65-75% of their games, with most of the losses coming in the top tiers. This isn't a trend we see a great deal of momentum to support, and is not nearly so well-reflected among other "power" list styles / codices / etc. (effectively nuking the "well any power list or deathstar will just run through the average and low tiers!).

Further feedback is welcome really to the "buzzer" as we're continuing to refine, discuss, and then correctly phrase these things prior to the opening of registration this weekend.

A perk at NOVA is the hotel and location.

We're a free 5 minute shuttle from Reagan National Airport (DCA). We're on the DC Metro rail, basically in the city proper ... it's less than 15 minutes from the hotel door to find yourself staring at the National Monument.

It's only $91/night at the hotel, which is a really nice Hyatt Regency.

What's NOT nice, I guess, is hotel rooms aren't forever. In fact, many of the rooms in the block are already taken!

We have a ton, so hopefully we won't run out soon, but hotel rooms are free to book and free to cancel, so no reason not to snag yours now while you can; we basically have the whole hotel this year, so there's a limit to how much we can add.

Use this link to snag your room nights:
https://aws.passkey.com/g/40463125?utm_campaign=2014%20NOVA%20Open%20Wrap-Up%20and%20Results

What, if anything, are the thoughts towards the new Necron detachment? It's battleforged but contains a variety of formations.

The current thought process is to stick with the rule simply being "2 Detachments." The Decurion Detachment is just that, even though it is inclusive of a bunch of different formations.

THAT SAID, with regard to new things that GW releases upon us, inclusive of that, new FW combos, etc., we do reserve the right (with substantial lead time) to get more specific on such things.

We won't be changing rules a few weeks out on anyone, however.

Just an FYI: Registration opens in less than 2 days!

In a completely self serving part of the post: It's the Malifaux North American Championships!

Preregister to guarantee your spot!

Registration opens in 7.5 hours ... @ 930. Good luck getting your supernova!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Registration will go live at 9:30 here: http://novaopenstore.com

You won't be able to create a username / register until that time.

Just signed my brother and me up for Supernova passes! They're already at least 2% gone!

All signed up. Man those quickening events sold out CRAZY fast! In for 40k GT and the Nightfighters Narrative campaigns though.

Question about the Narrative campaign, normally I only play in the GTs and I would consider myself a competitive player. Is it appropriate to still make a competitive list as long as it is perhaps more of an oddball or themed army? All infiltration all the time with an army that rarely does it, that sort of thing.

GreyDragoon wrote:
All signed up. Man those quickening events sold out CRAZY fast! In for 40k GT and the Nightfighters Narrative campaigns though.

Question about the Narrative campaign, normally I only play in the GTs and I would consider myself a competitive player. Is it appropriate to still make a competitive list as long as it is perhaps more of an oddball or themed army? All infiltration all the time with an army that rarely does it, that sort of thing.

The Narrative has a lot of checks and balances for people bringing competitive that outstrips attendees; you shouldn't worry at all there.

The Quickening events are CMEs - you can only register for them at the NOVA proper, so no worries there; there'll be as many run as sets of 8 players sign up for at each of the red dotted timeslots on the schedule.

There are only 13 SuperNOVA passes left, 22 minutes into registration.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SuperNOVA are sold out ... 53 minutes.

Great, thanks for letting me know. Didn't want to worry about being a jerk by bringing an oddball power list. Looking at the narrative primer book though I think I may have made a mistake during registration. I put myself down as Virtue but if I'm playing tau I really don't have the models to properly play them. Could I be switched over to Humanity? It looks like there are some slots left.

Also did I miss something in the primer on the points? I'd assume 1850 if not otherwise mentioned, but haven't seen it in the document so far.

You can self drop and add events freely. The system will use your existing purchases like credit if dropped.

Mike, you gotta invent a machine that will slow down the Earth's rotation. I've got a Narrative Warlord ticket and am looking at Seminars, and I just can't quite get in everything I want! Especially since I want to take part in quickenings and the Gathering.

How does the Narrative work with Quickenings, anyway? Doesn't seem like it's possible with the mid day meetings.

It'll most likely be possible; we have a lot of flex and ability to run Quickenings "any time" there's a set of 8 players available to fire one off. It's sorta the nature of CMEs.

We're just still working how best to represent and execute those from a schedule perspective.

The long and short is thanks to the work Neil's done on the webcart and convention management system, which are integrated, is we can basically create, take registrations for, and fire a Quickening at any time of the day or night, presuming there's someone to keep an eyeball on it and hit the go button.