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Hey guys,

as the titles suggests, I'm a newbie to war-gaming.. well.. that's a lie. I first became interested with Warhammer Fantasy when I was around 10 years old. At that age, I wasn't quite at a stage in which I could really appreciate all that was to offer and so I dropped in and out of the hobby for the next 13 years. Occasionally I formed together a small force but my adventures with them never lead to more than a few hundred points games with a buddy and some very vague rules!

Anyway, I've recently moved homes and after visiting my local GW store, I'm eager to bite the bullet and really start enjoying the hobby to its fullest. Had a talk with the staff and a few friendly customers which lead to me deciding upon a heavily ranger based Eldar army. I love playing defensive so camping in a forest definitely appeals!

Below is the first list for 40k that I've ever written so please understand that it may be... crap! I'm not completely sure of the latest rules with regard to forming an army so it may also be wrong in that sense so guidance there would be great too

Here goes:

HQ - Illic Nightspear 140


Troops - Rangers x10 - 120
- Rangers x10 - 120

Transport - Wave Serpent (standard) 115


Fast Attack - Warp Spiders x5 - 95


Elites - Wraithblades (Ghostswords) x5 - 160


Heavy Support - Fire Prism - 125
Vaul's Wrath Support Battery - x3 (One with D-Cannon) - 115 (Drop this for another Serpent?)



As you can see, that's a fair serving of rangers for a 1000 point list but I do so love them. I have a few options with regard to them though; would I be better to drop them down to a 5 man pathfinder squad and a smaller 5 man ranger squad considering the fact I'm taking Illic? If not, would I be better taking say... a farseer?

It's pretty obvious that I'm not intending to be too mobile (go on, call me a camper) which is the reason for my conservative choice of only one serpent, allowing me to go for a nice heavy choice of a fire prism. As I've said in my list, would it be beneficial to drop the Vaul's support battery and grab another serpent?

My biggest concern is my lack of both melee superiority and whether I'll be able to deal with enemy armour. Perhaps instead of replacing the support battery with a serpent, I could go for another fire prism? That'd offer up another hard hitting choice and also top me off at exactly 1000 points.

Please, feel free to tear my list apart and set me straight if it truly is a pile of crap I've tried to approach it with a balanced attitude whilst still allowing me to have a nice ranger based army.

Many thanks,

Sam.

Hello Sam and welcome to WH40K and DakkaDakka!

As a disclaimer, I don't currently have my Codex in front of me, so please bear in mind.

I thought Weapon Support batteries are purchased with the same weapon configuration, and not mixed.

In terms of army composition, I would provide the Wave Serpent to the Wrathblade unit to provide some mobility, and because the Rangers aren't necessarily going to use it. The only downside is that it won't have ObjSec.

The Warp Spiders have good firepower, and taking a unit of 7-8 would provide a good amount of numbers.

Thanks for the input bud! I really appreciate advice from those more experienced than I

I'll take a look at the support battery rules to confirm that but after a few thoughts, I think I'd rather replace them with either another serpent or another prism. Any suggestions as to what would best suit my needs?

It'll be a struggle finding the points to up the warp spiders numbers to 8 but I'll take your advice and see about doing that. I'd planned to put the blades in the serpent and use them as 'ranger bodyguards'! This is my newbness but what exactly is ObjSec? Object secure?

Other than those points, what do you think of the rest of my list? I'm still concerned about my ability to deal with any close quarters combat and whether I can handle enemy armour (specifically fliers).

Again, big thanks bud. It's great to get input from other players

Sam.

Sorry, but this list is terrible... And I routinely play Illic Nightspear for fun and don't look at the competitive bit of 40k. Even as a casual list it's not working...

You realize the Wave Serpent isn't just bought, correct? It has to be attached to a squad as a Dedicated Transport. The Rangers can not purchase it so it has to be attached to the Wraithblades. This makes a difference because of Obj Sec, and I'll get into that in a moment.

Rangers suck. There is no ifs, ands or buts about it, they are AWFUL. The only way I have ever made any traction with them as a unit is by upgrading them to Pathfinders. This option can be found under Illic Nightspear's rules. Look at it and use it if you like the idea of snipers. It is the ONLY way you can make them even slightly effective targetting the special weapon model of a unit with Sharpshot. I have used Rangers every game since the second time I used Eldar for fluff reasons. I understand the appeal but reality doesn't match what we want.

Wraithblades are not going to be bodyguards of anything. If something wants the Rangers dead, they will be shot. Not assaulted. So the Blades are going to stand around, maybe provide a cover save to a couple guys and that's it. Add that to the fact that Wraithblades can not assault the same turn they disembark from a Wave Serpent...

If you want a Wave Serpent, it needs a few things. Scatter Lasers, Upgraded Shuriken Cannon underneath instead of a Catapult, and Holo-fields for when you need to Jink, which does happen. The Fire Prism can have atleast Ghostwalk to plant itself in 4+ cover like Ruins. It doesn't NEED it, but it does reduce risk. Add Holofields and you can move in that same cover for a 3+ save every turn.

Support Batteries have to all be the same weapon. And aren't that useful... You'd do better with other options.

The Warp Spiders are a good choice.

Obj Sec is for troop choices giving priority scoring on objectives. For instance, if your Rangers (a troop choice) is on Objective 6 and the enemy wants it and is coming in with Chaos Bikers (a Fast Attack choice) they have to either A) kill all of your Rangers on the objective to gain control or B) lock you in assault and no one gets control of the objective. The Rangers keep the objective because they are troops with Objective Secured. But, a enemy unit with Obj Sec can 'contest' it meaning no one gets the objective then either. A dedicated Transport (Wave Serpent) can have Obj Sec if purchased for a unit that has Obj Sec. The Wraithblades can not have Obj Sec so the Serpent wouldn't have it either.

I would say rewrite the list completely. If you like snipers, start with Illic and the Pathfinders. I would include the Fire Prism as well and a squad of some troop choice, Guardians with a Bright Lance if you want to be casual or five Dire Avengers if you want to be more competitive and just unlock the tank itself, to purchase the troop Wave Serpent. If you like Wraiths, D-Scythe Wraithguard in a Serpent are very good and aggressive and can be your frontline troops with the two Serpents.

Well that told me! haha. As I said, utterly clueless. Everything you've said makes complete sense so it definitely looks like a rewrite is needed. I'm not the most competitive but I definitely wouldn't say casual so basing my army on a solid list is a must.

To be honest, I had read that rangers aren't the most successful troops in 40k but after reading through the Codex, nothing really stands out!

I suppose I really should disregard my hopes of a ranger army.. perhaps I'll include a small unit just to sit in cover on an objective but the idea of basing my entire list around them is flawed. With that in mind, I'll select a different HQ and probably drop the wraithblades too. I love the idea of having two serpents on the table but I didn't realise they had to be paired with a compatible unit - that'll complicate things! I like the idea of going cheap on the dire avengers to allow for one serpent so I think that'll fill one space. I also love the idea of dumping a squad of wraithguard with D-scythes in their face but at 210 points PLUS the serpent.. that's expensive!

I quite like Farseers and at 115 points I could have him on a jetbike and include him in a bike squad, maybe that's a HQ choice? Unfortunately it feels like I'm straying away from my desired defensive play style :(

More planning required!

Thanks bud,

Sam.

Had a long think about my 'Ranger army' and after a lot of reading.. it's simply not viable! Space elves are cool in my book either way so I'm happy to move on from my original idea

Another list and friend and I have come up with -

HQ -
Farseer
100 points

Troops -
10 guardian defenders
Shuriken Cannon
DT - Wave Serpent
TL Scatter Laser
Holo-fields
240 points

10 guardian defenders
Shuriken Cannon
DT - Wave Serpent
TL Scatter Laser
Holo-fields
240 points


Fast Attack -
Crimson Hunter Exarch
2x Bright Lance
180 points


Heavy Support -
Wraithknight
2x Heavy Wraithcannon
240 points


If my calculations are correct, that's 1000 points! I'd like to hear your thoughts guys It definitely seems like dropping the rangers allows for far more power in my list... although.. I'm not sure about guardian defenders. Their 12" range guns seem pretty terrible.

Anyway, as before, feel free to utterly tear it apart! I'm eager to get this right.

Sam.

TBH, the spiritseer doesn't seem all that useful as you aren't taking wraithguard / blades, however you could make him a farseer, and take the scatter laser off the wraithknight (as it can only fire 2 weapons a turn, making the laser useless), which brings your total up to 1000

That makes sense bud I'd only chosen the spiritseer due to his cheap cost to be honest but with knowing that I'm restricted to two WK weapons, I'll swap him out for a farseer.

Am I best to run a wraithknight as stock?

Thanks mate,

Sam.

(Edited the above list as per your suggestion)

Well, a lot of people will say so, however i personally prefer the suncannon, due to the stock knight being able to take out tanks / MC's and not much else, however your only other form of AT is the crimson hunter, which won't come on until at least turn 2, so id keep to stock it this case.
Being the big centre piece that it is, it will also take a lot of your opponents attention and fire power (and more than likely survive it), allowing your serpents and guardians to do what they please, while taking reduced attacks (hopefully).

I love the idea of having air support in a relatively low points game so I'd really like to keep that. Is there any other way to bump up my anti-tank capabilities? Definitely see where you're coming from!

Thanks again,

Sam.

Apparently you had a Spiritseer before but changed him out? Not a terrible idea and Farseers are better, but in low point games it's worth looking at the Spiritseer because it's cheaper. If you're not Psychic focused, it can do well and I've had good experience using Telepathy. If you want more anti-tank then you can put the Spiritseer back in, swap the Cannons for Bright Lances and add Cannons to the Wave Serpents (not seeing them in the list of addons). That should give plenty of anti-tank and anti-infantry and I personally like that it uses Guardians instead of the more spammy option of Avengers. It's a very strong start to however you want the army to go in the future. Huge improvement in very short time.

The second list looks quite good.
But give the Serpents underslung shuricannons, not the Guardians.
The Farseer should be mounted on a jetbike.

Glad to see I'm making some improvements! I think my being locked into the idea of basing it all on rangers really restricted what the Eldar can do.

Adding some shuricannons instead of taking the slightly more expensive farseer sounds great so it looks like he's back in! My reasoning for adding cannons as weapons platforms was due to reading that NOT adding platforms was a very bad move?

I've not got my codex with me but I'll be sure to make those adjustments later

Quick question - Is the Exarch upgrade at 20 points worth doing for the Hunter? I'm only using it to boost his BS from 4 to 5.

Thanks both, really appreciated your input,

Sam.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Apparently you had a Spiritseer before but changed him out? Not a terrible idea and Farseers are better, but in low point games it's worth looking at the Spiritseer because it's cheaper. If you're not Psychic focused, it can do well and I've had good experience using Telepathy. If you want more anti-tank then you can put the Spiritseer back in, swap the Cannons for Bright Lances and add Cannons to the Wave Serpents (not seeing them in the list of addons). That should give plenty of anti-tank and anti-infantry and I personally like that it uses Guardians instead of the more spammy option of Avengers. It's a very strong start to however you want the army to go in the future. Huge improvement in very short time.

Sorry, just had another read over the projected changes - 'swap the Cannons for Bright Lances' on what exactly buddy? Don't have my codex to hand

Weapon platforms are a waste of points.
A Serpent can make the underslung shuricannon twin-linked.

Swap the Guardian Platform Shuriken Cannons for Bright Lances. Droping the Farseer to a Spirit saves you 30pts, that gives the points for both Cannons to become Bright Lances and the two Serpents to get their Catapults upgraded to Shuriken Cannons. That way even when you don't fire the shields, the Scatter Lasers can twin-link the underslung Cannon and the Guardians can sit on objectives if the mission needs it and fire at Tanks from afar. Gives a bit of tactical flexibility.

Weapon platforms are hit or miss.
I'd prefer a Farseer with increased mobility.
Not sure if you need anti air at the 1000 pt level.
Serpents can also do it.

Taking both of your points into consideration I do see how weapon platforms are a very situational asset, but as I intend to play in a slightly defensive manner, I do think they may come in handy as my guardians sit on an objective.

The view I take on whether anti-air is needed at this low of a points bracket is well... if I've squeezed some air support into my list, who says my opponent won't! Unlikely maybe, but I'd rather be prepared.

Another though I've had is shuffling some points around to be able to equip my wraithknight with an extra weapon specifically for anti-infantry? Wouldn't want him to become pointless after dealing with my opponents armour.

Here's the amended list - I'm still unsure as to whether I need to strip some points from somewhere and use them to go for a farseer but to be honest.. I'd rather not have my HQ on a bike as I want him to roll with a unit of guardians. His level 3 psyker capability is tempting though!


HQ -
Spiritseer
70 points

Troops -
10 guardian defenders
Bright Lance Platform
DT - Wave Serpent
TL Scatter Laser
Shuricannon
Holo-fields
255 points

10 guardian defenders
Bright Lance Platform
DT - Wave Serpent
TL Scatter Laser
Shuricannon
Holo-fields
255 points


Fast Attack -
Crimson Hunter Exarch
2x Bright Lance
180 points


Heavy Support -
Wraithknight
2x Heavy Wraithcannon
240 points

Your thoughts on those amendments and my thoughts posted above are very much appreciated. Feel like I'm getting somewhere now!

That's how I would run it right there. Very strong list with both Defensive and Offensive elements. As far as tactics, remember the Wave Serpents are also Obj Sec so don't be afraid to run them aggressively if need be. Pushing forward Turn 4 to grab Linebreaker by the end of the game is a very good strategy. This core will work very well as you move up to higher point levels.

Thanks bud Appreciate your input. I'm glad to form a list that I can as you say, build upon as I increase my points. I'm very happy with what I'm able to include in this bracket and look forward to getting started!

Again, many many thanks guys,

Sam.

Well, Spiritseers are good in Iyanden armies. Otherwise don't bother.
Weapon platforms armed with bright lances are hit or miss.
I'd drop them and replace the Spiritseers by a Jetseer.
She can add so much variety to your army.

Hmmm... If I were to change one guardian squad to dire avengers (not too spammy as I still have 1 guardian squad), that'd give me the points to go for a farseer on a jetbike. My concern about that is the fact he'd be the only jetbiker in the list and somewhwat of a target. Also, that'd mean losing 5 troops!

Hard to know what's best

If I were to also drop out the weapon platform on the remaining guardian squad, I'd be up 135 points, still not really enough to go for anything other than a farseer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit - Just had another thought!

Forget about Farseer and spiritseer completely and go for an Autarch on a jetbike with a squad of three windriders?

HQ -
Autarch
Jetbike
85 points

Troops -
10 guardian defenders
DT - Wave Serpent
TL Scatter Laser
Shuricannon
Holo-fields
235 points

5 Dire Avengers
DT - Wave Serpent
TL Scatter Laser
Shuricannon
Holo-fields
210 points

Windrider Jetbike Squad
51 points


Fast Attack -
Crimson Hunter Exarch
2x Bright Lance
180 points


Heavy Support -
Wraithknight
2x Heavy Wraithcannon
240 points

Unfortunately that's 1001 points but although I'm losing 5 guardians and their weapon platforms, I do gain 4 jetbikes, one of which is an autarch. Thoughts guys? Annoying to have to find that 1 point!

A Jetseer is one of the best support characters in the game.
Guide, prescience or psychic shriek are too good to pass up.

I'm not sure how I could fit 115 points for a jetseer into the list. If I were to lost the extra three windriders, I could easily squeeze the jetseer in.. but wouldn't it be an easy target? The lone jetbike!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just had a search for those psychic powers... WOW. I definitely see your point. I see that they are not numbered; does that mean I can pick and choose those ones without even rolling?

HQ -
Farseer
Jetbike
115

Troops -
10 guardian defenders
DT - Wave Serpent
TL Scatter Laser
Shuricannon
Holo-fields
235 points

10 guardian defenders
DT - Wave Serpent
TL Scatter Laser
Shuricannon
Holo-fields
235 points



Fast Attack -
Crimson Hunter Exarch
2x Bright Lance
180 points


Heavy Support -
Wraithknight
2x Heavy Wraithcannon
240 points

That'd be 1000 points. I had 20 points left over that I've used to change the 5 dire avengers to 10 guardians.

Am I correct in thinking the general tactica with the Jetseer would be to keep him in cover and move him to a location that his psychic powers would assist, then hide him again?


I'll stop changing this list at some point! haha.

Well, in the 6th edition I picked all three for my Jetseer as they were primary powers.
The situation has changed a bit since if you pick a single lore you get the primary power for free.

Ahh I see. I think I'll go with the above list; I think his powers are worth more than a few weapons platforms.

Thanks buddy Banana.

(Edit to ensure that the '' was not at the end of the post!

The mentioned primary powers are quite useful.
Guide and prescience for your shooters and shriek against the last Berzerker who refuses to die.

I thought I was only able to take 1? Or am I able to, with the jetseer psyker level 3, choose all 3 and not roll for powers?

Prescience requires 5 Warp Charge dice to reliably go off, Guide is amazing because it is a WC1 version of prescience but it can only help with the Wraithknight and Crimson Hunter. Yes it can benefit both very well but that's an easy 1st Blood AND Slay the Warlord kill without a squad or the Mantle of the Laughing God to keep the Seer alive. Psychic Shriek is great but again, it has to be close to the enemy and the seer has next to no survivability even with Jink. Unless the seer is attached to a good squad, I've had no luck with them in smaller games so I'm still in the Spiritseer camp rolling twice on Telepathy. That gives Shriek and two powers and saves points. Could even include a Warlock in the other Guardian squad with the saved points.

So at this point, I suggest planning to buy both options and playing them both to see what you prefer. Upsides and downsides to both and your own experience will be more reliable than what Internet peoples say.

You have to roll but in this case you roll on Telepathy, Eldar Fate Runes and Divination and since the three powers listed are all Primaris you can switch the roll result with the Primaris instead. So technically, you can pick these specific powers.

That makes a lot of sense bud. It's a small but important choice that without actually trying both, I'd be ill-advised.

I'll run both variants of the list and see how it pans out Made a whole lot of progress since my first attempt, thanks to you guys, so I can't wait to get started!

The use of the lore is purely situational.
The above primaries powers provide default load out.
If you plan for some criminal Eldar, choose demonology.
If you field a Seer Council, go for fortune or invisibility.