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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/22 00:57:26
Subject: For fluff players, what would be fluffy for you to play your army?
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Fixture of Dakka
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I am curious for people who like to play by fluff, what rules would you like to play fluffily? I would think Space Marines would be like only 10 on the field. Isn't it said one Space Marine equals 100 Imperial Guards, or was it 1000? Money wise that would be bad for GW, but how would you like to implement it in a game?
Would SM have like a 3+ save and reroll a failed armour save? If no reroll save, maybe they have 2 or 3 wounds each? This would show how durable they are and takes more than one shot to kill them. Terminators would be a 2+ save and reroll a failed armour save, or have an extra wound more than a Space Marine, but could only move half the speed? I guess Space Marines would be 100 or 150 points each. Low numbers but hit hard and can take a beating.
For Genestealers, I would think they would be like 8 or 10 points each. They would only have a 6+ save or none at all. They get shot up like in Space Hulk but once they get to you, they wreck your face off. So easy to shoot at and kill from a distance, but very scary up close.
So forget about the rules we have now, if you could make your army or units fluffy to play, how would you do it?
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Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong". |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/22 02:47:09
Subject: For fluff players, what would be fluffy for you to play your army?
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Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought
The oceans of the world
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I didn't know people actually played like this
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/22 02:47:20
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/22 11:08:59
Subject: Re:For fluff players, what would be fluffy for you to play your army?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I consider myself a fluff player, but I don't play like this! Fluff playing for me means creating a list that is more focused on story rather than firepower, and creating campaigns and missions that follow a storyline.
I am making a singular game in which Space Marines and Characters are one man armies, but it's not intended for regular play, more like skirmishes and thematic missions.
G.A
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G.A - Should've called myself Ghost Ark
Makeup Whiskers? This is War Paint! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/22 12:25:20
Subject: For fluff players, what would be fluffy for you to play your army?
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Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?
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Yeah, fluff generally means playing in character and list building towards a theme rather than a cometitive crush-your-foes list, typically avoiding spamming units unless there's a good reason to take them.
For example, to play fluffy with my Guard, I put at least 100 minis down at anything 1k points or greater, and comparatively lower number of tanks. My infantry all have Flamers or GL even though Plasma/Melta are more effective options, while the Veterans get all the expensive gear they can. Aand these guardsmen will charge you, no matter if you're a 30-strong mob of Orks or a lone Carnifex, we're fixing bayonets and getting stuck in.
My Space Marines will always play aggressively, to the point where between Rhinos and pods I rarely have anything left in my table half at the end of the game. They will generally challenge everything that would bring them glory, from Ork Nobz to Hive Tyrants. In my Ultramarines especially, I build the squads to the specifics given in the Codex, to hell with how effective it actually is.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/22 13:43:52
Subject: For fluff players, what would be fluffy for you to play your army?
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Gargantuan Grotesque With Gnarskin
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Paradigm wrote:Yeah, fluff generally means playing in character and list building towards a theme rather than a cometitive crush-your-foes list, typically avoiding spamming units unless there's a good reason to take them.
For example, to play fluffy with my Guard, I put at least 100 minis down at anything 1k points or greater, and comparatively lower number of tanks. My infantry all have Flamers or GL even though Plasma/Melta are more effective options, while the Veterans get all the expensive gear they can. Aand these guardsmen will charge you, no matter if you're a 30-strong mob of Orks or a lone Carnifex, we're fixing bayonets and getting stuck in.
My Space Marines will always play aggressively, to the point where between Rhinos and pods I rarely have anything left in my table half at the end of the game. They will generally challenge everything that would bring them glory, from Ork Nobz to Hive Tyrants. In my Ultramarines especially, I build the squads to the specifics given in the Codex, to hell with how effective it actually is.
I love people like you. It's so much more fun to make poor strategic decisions for a fun story than it is to spam death stars and power lists with no personality.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/22 13:44:23
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/22 14:04:21
Subject: Re:For fluff players, what would be fluffy for you to play your army?
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Confessor Of Sins
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I agree that you can play "fluffy" without actually bending/modifying rules in your games. You can always go back to the "Space Marines should be Strength 8" argument, but i beleive that you can make a "standard" list, play quite tactically, while still being in the "fluff".
I play with a more "tailored" list: Some Battle Sisters Squads, Dominions, Retributors, 2 Exorcists and a Knight Titan.
Sure, at 1500 or so that it is, there should be more foot-slogging BSS, and upon defending a small Shrine on a small planet against a few marauders, it's not the force you would see.
But to me, it's still part of the story. Indeed, it is not a 20-Hive Tyrant Spam list, but even then, it would not phase me:
-This is a focussed battle of the part as a whole.
Your 1500points are part of your (imaginary) 20 000pts army deployed on this planet.
The specific combat you play out is the central turning point of the battle: The part where, quite possibly (but to me very very stretched), 20 Hive tyrants come flying at the centre of your defence line, and you MUST take those objectives within an allocated time.
Sure, i'd rather see a more "balanced" or "fluff" enemy, and if i ever play Kill-Team or a 500pts skirmish, i like to see "standard" troopers. But i'm just saying it does not have to be so, even if you are going by fluff...
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DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage. Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/22 16:42:30
Subject: Re:For fluff players, what would be fluffy for you to play your army?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The statement that one marine is worth 100 guardsmen?
That does not mean you can actually field one marine in an open field against a hundred guardsmen and expect him to get very far.
Marines are the special forces, the propaganda tools and the most experienced and skilled warriors.
A ten marine squad of reinforcements could turn the tide of a war far better than a thousand guard reinforcements could. Because they'll give strategic advice, rally the troops with their inspiring prescience and take special ops missions to break the back of the enemy forces at key locations.
Not because having ten Bolters and ten suits of power armour is better than a thousand Lasguns and a thousand flak jackets. If force were the only concern give me the las and flak any day.
Marine tabletop stats are fine where they are: Superhuman in all the core stats barring wounds. Carrying far better standard equipment.
Space Marines are the tip of the Emperor's Spear, Guardsmen are the shaft. Without the shaft you have a dagger. Without the tip you have a big stick.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/22 17:33:24
Subject: For fluff players, what would be fluffy for you to play your army?
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Confessor Of Sins
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If you are asking about the "Space Marines should be Strength 8" argument, it's more from the fluff of what they do in books.
I don't have specific examples, but in the Horus Heresy Series, and other books, they have the physiology and strength way way above normal "guardsmen".
Quote from the thing (Actually Published by GW) in White Dwarf 300:
"In the latest White Dwarf, GW set a new low for dirty tricks by theorizing how powerful space marines would be if they starred in their own movie. Then they wrote an army list for them. 1,500-2,000 points gets you 10 marines who are more than capable of wiping out your entire army in a few short turns. 10 marines doesn't sound that bad, but... well, it sucks. Just try to imagine a space marine carrying an assault cannon that can be fired on the move, with toughness 6, twin-linked invulnerable saves, and close combat ability that puts him far over any chaplain or force commander."
And they had rules along these lines: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/12/40k-playtest-movie-marines-in-5e.html
(5th ed Rules)
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DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage. Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/22 17:46:15
Subject: For fluff players, what would be fluffy for you to play your army?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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BlackTalos wrote:If you are asking about the "Space Marines should be Strength 8" argument, it's more from the fluff of what they do in books.
I don't have specific examples, but in the Horus Heresy Series, and other books, they have the physiology and strength way way above normal "guardsmen".
Quote from the thing (Actually Published by GW) in White Dwarf 300:
"In the latest White Dwarf, GW set a new low for dirty tricks by theorizing how powerful space marines would be if they starred in their own movie. Then they wrote an army list for them. 1,500-2,000 points gets you 10 marines who are more than capable of wiping out your entire army in a few short turns. 10 marines doesn't sound that bad, but... well, it sucks. Just try to imagine a space marine carrying an assault cannon that can be fired on the move, with toughness 6, twin-linked invulnerable saves, and close combat ability that puts him far over any chaplain or force commander."
And they had rules along these lines: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/12/40k-playtest-movie-marines-in-5e.html
(5th ed Rules)
Yep, that's what you get in the most excessive fluff that portrays them as demigods.
In the general fluff though, they're what I said: Special forces, not magical superheroes who do everything themselves.
It is a spreading mindset, mind you. Just look at the Horus Heresy books that made the frankly bizarre decision to take the legends that built up around the Primarchs and Emperor over ten thousand years of religious reverence completely at face value.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/22 19:05:59
Subject: For fluff players, what would be fluffy for you to play your army?
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Confessor Of Sins
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The Horus Heresy books are pretty much all i've read for fluff, including a few extras here and there...
Reading the achievements of some of the standard marines from there would pretty much give them BS10, WS10 S6 etc...
If you are saying that the Horus Heresy books give them more credit than other novels, then i would probably have that mindset indeed...
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DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage. Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/22 19:15:51
Subject: Re:For fluff players, what would be fluffy for you to play your army?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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First time I got into Warhammer was the tail end of 3rd edition.
I remember reading the BRB of the time cover to cover, and when I got to stuff like "Sanguinus snapped a Bloodthirster in half over his knee"... I just read it as distorted legend. Ten thousand years of religious exaggeration distorting them to be like Greek myth. The implications seemed to pretty strongly point at the Emperor being effectively braindead, the Astronomicon powered by thousands of sacrifices and so on too.
So imagine my disappointment at coming back to it early this year and finding things like repeated direct intervention from the Emperor being canon, and the Horus Heresy novels taking all the mythical backstory and making it historically accurate.
It's like the current writers haven't read the same source material as I did or something.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/22 19:42:49
Subject: For fluff players, what would be fluffy for you to play your army?
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Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws
Sioux Falls, SD
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I've written lists based on armies in some of the 40k novels before, while not always optimal they can be very fun, especially if you can find someone to play the other side from the novel.
One of my friends is thinking of starting Orks, I think doing a campaign based on the Octarius War but see how the campaign plays out on it's own rather than stick to the story 100%.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Octarius_War
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Blood for the bloo... wait no, I meant for Sanguinius! |
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