Tyrius wrote:Yeah I had debated maybe using the gargoyle/flyrant formation to go to 2k and have a big screen that started in front. Not sure what you mean by no shroud?
Venothrope/Malanthrope, a screen gives a cover save, Shrouding improves it by 2

You also really want to start in a Shroud, so that you can survive an "Alpha strike".
So you always want at least one, and often two sources of Shrouding.
Some tourney players go so far as to include a Bastion for the Shrouding source, the (in)famous " veno in a box".
It keeps the source safe, and blocks line of sight.