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Very new player here. I decided to start a SM army, Imperial Fists chapter, since they seem very beginner friendly. However I am having trouble fleshing out my list and would love some suggestions, aiming for ~1000 Points.

I currently have:
HQ Librarian: Term Armor, Storm Bolter
Elite Terminator Squad: Still on sprue, should I go Autocannon or Cyclone Missle launcher? I was thinking the latter would be better since I could still use the storm bolter with IF chapter tactics.
Heavy Support Vindicator: Siege Shield

I have been browsing the forums extensively and it seems a lot of people are trashing the Tac Squads, I don't want to make another whole thread about this but if you were in my position what would you use for troop choices?

I think Tac squads are alright. For the points you spend on them you get below average firepower, but they are difficult to shift from objectives provided they can get there. They have other uses like assaulting light vehicles with their krak grenades. Combat squadding is great because you can take your minimum two troop choices as units of 10, take two cheap transports, then combat squad them and you have six ObSec units.

The best Troop units however, are undoubtably bikes. You need a Chapter Master/Captain on a bike and units of five so maybe don't worry about that (they also work best as White Scars taking Khan).

The other Troop option I like is a five-man scout unit in a Landspeeder Storm with Heavy Flamer. It's cheap, cheerful and quite versatile.

For fleshing out the rest, bikes are good anyway even if they aren't Troops and you can't go wrong with a Thunderfire Cannon. Grav Centurions can be very powerful also, but you might need an ally or fortification to deliver them properly.

Imp Fist tacs are one of the better options with their bolter drill. They might not have a spot in a top-end competitive list, but at a slightly more casual FLGS, they are fine.

I like the assault cannon. I find it has more synergy with the stormbolters then the CML. I personally run my tactical terminators with it, and one chainfist in the squad. YMMV.

Do you have an idea on how you want to structure your army overall? The Vindi suggests you are going at least partially mechanized. If that is the case, I’d go with rhinos over drop pods. They are slightly more forgiving for new players.

What you have looks to be about 500 points.

I’d start with a full tactical squad in a rhino, and a 5 man scout squad w/bolters in a land speeder storm. That takes care of your two troop pics, and about 300 more points.

What to do with the last 200 points depends a lot on what looks cool to you. I’d want some AA fire, and there are a number of ways to get it. A stalker/hunter, or one of our flyers. After that. a bike squad would fit nicely, and could eventually be moved to the troops slot with the right HQ. IF dev squads are worth the points, and have some nice perks. Really, it’s a matter of taste.

Are you trying to be balls to the walls competitive or just looking for something that works?

Edit: Also glad for another banana marines player has joined the ranks.

Off the bat though id go get the sentinels of Terra supplement. its nice, buffed bolter drill, and a relic that makes your librarian wayyyy more useful.

ryuken87 wrote:
I think Tac squads are alright. For the points you spend on them you get below average firepower, but they are difficult to shift from objectives provided they can get there. They have other uses like assaulting light vehicles with their krak grenades. Combat squadding is great because you can take your minimum two troop choices as units of 10, take two cheap transports, then combat squad them and you have six ObSec units.

The best Troop units however, are undoubtably bikes. You need a Chapter Master/Captain on a bike and units of five so maybe don't worry about that (they also work best as White Scars taking Khan).

The other Troop option I like is a five-man scout unit in a Landspeeder Storm with Heavy Flamer. It's cheap, cheerful and quite versatile.

For fleshing out the rest, bikes are good anyway even if they aren't Troops and you can't go wrong with a Thunderfire Cannon. Grav Centurions can be very powerful also, but you might need an ally or fortification to deliver them properly.

 Nevelon wrote:
Imp Fist tacs are one of the better options with their bolter drill. They might not have a spot in a top-end competitive list, but at a slightly more casual FLGS, they are fine.

I like the assault cannon. I find it has more synergy with the stormbolters then the CML. I personally run my tactical terminators with it, and one chainfist in the squad. YMMV.

Do you have an idea on how you want to structure your army overall? The Vindi suggests you are going at least partially mechanized. If that is the case, I’d go with rhinos over drop pods. They are slightly more forgiving for new players.

What you have looks to be about 500 points.

I’d start with a full tactical squad in a rhino, and a 5 man scout squad w/bolters in a land speeder storm. That takes care of your two troop pics, and about 300 more points.

What to do with the last 200 points depends a lot on what looks cool to you. I’d want some AA fire, and there are a number of ways to get it. A stalker/hunter, or one of our flyers. After that. a bike squad would fit nicely, and could eventually be moved to the troops slot with the right HQ. IF dev squads are worth the points, and have some nice perks. Really, it’s a matter of taste.

Thanks for the advice, great responses!

Based on what you all have told me what I might like to do for troop choices is one Tac Squad with Rhino for transport, and a Land Speeder Storm with the 5 man scout squad for my other option. How would you set up the special/heavy weapons in the tac squad?

As far as fleshing out my list I think a more fast paced style would be fun, so bikes are definitely an option I would like to take, and as you all suggested I could eventually move them in as a troop choice. However I am not sure would I would work the foot mobile terminators into this, would deep striking them off the Land Speeder be a good option? I don't have a game under my belt yet, but it seems like walking them across the table would not be the best way to use them.

 Desubot wrote:
Are you trying to be balls to the walls competitive or just looking for something that works?

Edit: Also glad for another banana marines player has joined the ranks.

Off the bat though id go get the sentinels of Terra supplement. its nice, buffed bolter drill, and a relic that makes your librarian wayyyy more useful.

I don't plan on joining any tournaments, but at the same time I wouldn't have very much fun if I lose every game, so maybe something in between

I actually have the sentinels of terra supplement as well, do I need to have a special formation to utilize those rules?

Nope its just plug and play. you just cant mix and match relics so no shield Eternal, bones of orsaks librarian.

Drop pod tacs are better than most with that supplement for twinlinked rapidfire.
But in rhino it really depends on how you plan on moving, if you are going to sit back and shoot on an objective its nice to sit with a 5man and a plasma cannon/lascannon/missile launcher. the prices vary between but i pref the plasma as it can possibly deal more damage per shot and deters deep striking circles.
if you are aggressively moving up, you cant go wrong wtih a plasma or melta gun.
scouts, you wana keep them cheap, possibly sit them with bolters and scoot around jinking from outflank. or go with CCWBP and charge a fragile unit or a backfield artillery.

Shooting terminators are known to be meh as heck. but if you need to use it at low points or for fun, assault cannons can be clutch, so can the cyclone so model whats cool.

Putting some teleport homers and locator beacons in your army can help. If you play with a lot of terrain, it might be necessary. On a more open table, there should be enough space to DS them. Also, how much does your scatter die hate you? While you mostly want to keep them in reserve, occasionally you’ll want to footslog them. The nice thing is you can decide at the table which you feel like.

What to put on your tac squads depends a lot on the rest of your list. Generally, you want a combi weapon on the sarge to match the squads’s special. Heavy weapons are debated, but I like them on my squads. As an IF player, it’s hard to go wrong with the HB. With the bolter drill, snap firing it is not that bad, and you might not need to move every turn. I like a full melta squad (MM/M, c-melta) if I don’t think I have enough elsewhere. From a practical POV, you get a ML in the tactical squad box, so it’s a nice (if overpriced) default choice. You will probably want to pick up the devastator box at some point, if for nothing else but the weapon options. Although IF devs are quite nice.

 Desubot wrote:
Nope its just plug and play. you just cant mix and match relics so no shield Eternal, bones of orsaks librarian.

Drop pod tacs are better than most with that supplement for twinlinked rapidfire.
But in rhino it really depends on how you plan on moving, if you are going to sit back and shoot on an objective its nice to sit with a 5man and a plasma cannon/lascannon/missile launcher. the prices vary between but i pref the plasma as it can possibly deal more damage per shot and deters deep striking circles.
if you are aggressively moving up, you cant go wrong wtih a plasma or melta gun.
scouts, you wana keep them cheap, possibly sit them with bolters and scoot around jinking from outflank. or go with CCWBP and charge a fragile unit or a backfield artillery.

Shooting terminators are known to be meh as heck. but if you need to use it at low points or for fun, assault cannons can be clutch, so can the cyclone so model whats cool.

I do like the idea of drop pods, but I was considering it might be nice to have a rhino there so I could use it as mobile cover for the vindicator to give it's side armor some protection. I hear a lot of good things about sternguards in a drop pod, do you think that would fit in well with the rest of what I have going? I have seen that about regular terminators as well, unfortunately after I bought them. I have really just been looking out for second hand to build this since I'm on a budget, so that's how I came across those.

 Nevelon wrote:
Putting some teleport homers and locator beacons in your army can help. If you play with a lot of terrain, it might be necessary. On a more open table, there should be enough space to DS them. Also, how much does your scatter die hate you? While you mostly want to keep them in reserve, occasionally you’ll want to footslog them. The nice thing is you can decide at the table which you feel like.

What to put on your tac squads depends a lot on the rest of your list. Generally, you want a combi weapon on the sarge to match the squads’s special. Heavy weapons are debated, but I like them on my squads. As an IF player, it’s hard to go wrong with the HB. With the bolter drill, snap firing it is not that bad, and you might not need to move every turn. I like a full melta squad (MM/M, c-melta) if I don’t think I have enough elsewhere. From a practical POV, you get a ML in the tactical squad box, so it’s a nice (if overpriced) default choice. You will probably want to pick up the devastator box at some point, if for nothing else but the weapon options. Although IF devs are quite nice.

When would you normally want to DS them, against more shooty armies like Tau? For the Tac Squad I was thinking HB to take advantage of IF chapter tactics or Plasma Cannon as Desu suggests, along with a Plasma Gun, and then I suppose a combi/plasma pistol on sergeant?

The school of though should be that a vindicator will be a massive target for most enemies, they will more than likely do everything in there power to kill or neuter it.

Its why its nice to take them in multiples. like 2-3 that way if one dies there will be another to take a shot.

but really as long as you can distract the opponent or force them to make a hard choice between going for it or something else, its should be the same thing.

Drop pod armies tend to be VERY distracting. so unless some one is realllly focused to kill it they will generally have to deal with all the stuff on there field T1,

for Pods you generally wana go in odd numbers so that you get more in T1.

I prefer Ironclads x2, and a command squad with SS and melta guns (because im using the breacher squad shields and it looks bitchin )

Come in T1 with the ironclads or the melta guns if the opportunity arises. then move up the vindicator. they will need to deal with both. otherwise a lot of ST10 or meltas will keep happening.

You can still do it with a 5man tactical squad with a meltagun and combimelta.

 Desubot wrote:
The school of though should be that a vindicator will be a massive target for most enemies, they will more than likely do everything in there power to kill or neuter it.

Its why its nice to take them in multiples. like 2-3 that way if one dies there will be another to take a shot.

but really as long as you can distract the opponent or force them to make a hard choice between going for it or something else, its should be the same thing.

Drop pod armies tend to be VERY distracting. so unless some one is realllly focused to kill it they will generally have to deal with all the stuff on there field T1,

for Pods you generally wana go in odd numbers so that you get more in T1.

I prefer Ironclads x2, and a command squad with SS and melta guns (because im using the breacher squad shields and it looks bitchin )

Come in T1 with the ironclads or the melta guns if the opportunity arises. then move up the vindicator. they will need to deal with both. otherwise a lot of ST10 or meltas will keep happening.

You can still do it with a 5man tactical squad with a meltagun and combimelta.

That is a very cool idea, would definitely bring a lot to bear at once. If I can find all that for the right price I will try to do that. Do you think this would work as well with regular dreadnaughts, or is the extra points cost for the ironclad really worth it?

 Mengel19 wrote:

When would you normally want to DS them, against more shooty armies like Tau? For the Tac Squad I was thinking HB to take advantage of IF chapter tactics or Plasma Cannon as Desu suggests, along with a Plasma Gun, and then I suppose a combi/plasma pistol on sergeant?

DSing them lets you use them as a troubleshooter squad. When they show up (on turn 2-3) figure out where you need them, and drop them in. Be wary of plasma or other AP2 fire near your LZ. Also, interceptor fire, particularly from tau, as they can put a lot of pain on you when you show up.

One problem with the plasma cannon is that it can’t be snap fired at all on the move. I’m not a fan of paying premium points for dead weight. My scatter die also hates me, which is another strike against the PC. I’d go HB/plasma/c-plasma if I wasn’t going for melta. But there are very few wrong answers, it’s a lot of to-taste. Also very dependent on who your are likely to face. I.e. if your best friend and most common opponent plays orks, you might want to go for flamers.

While plasma pistols are the iconic sidearm of choice amongst the Emperor’s finest, at 15 points they are comically overpriced. Avoid at all costs. Unless you’ve already modeled it and play WYSWYG.

Yeah i tend to not move up my marines or if it is safe unload them in deployment and just move up the rhino to grab another objective . also my scatter is nice to me.

but yeah you will have issues with interceptor and ap2 against tau of thats who you will be playing a lot.

 Mengel19 wrote:


That is a very cool idea, would definitely bring a lot to bear at once. If I can find all that for the right price I will try to do that. Do you think this would work as well with regular dreadnaughts, or is the extra points cost for the ironclad really worth it?

MM dreads can work well for a disruption drop, and you might be able to find the old AoBR dreads on e-bay for cheep. Ironclads work better, as they are tougher and meaner. But more expensive in points. The general rule of thumb is if you can afford to drop ironclads, do so, but regular dreads can work for those on a budget.

Oh though speaking of money, a DP army is not cheap so you know.

bloody things cost an arm and a leg.

 Desubot wrote:
Oh though speaking of money, a DP army is not cheap so you know.

bloody things cost an arm and a leg.

Well if this is the case perhaps I should go with another fast paced option such as bikes and maybe a flyer to keep my $ costs lower. Then keep the vindicator in as a distraction piece since it draws fire as you said, and if it is able to get off a shot all the better.

I would like to throw a vote for more classic Marine tactics.

I am a standard, codex-compliant Ultramarine/Imperial Fist at heart, and I think you could get a lot of mileage out of getting a few more standard and proven units that you can use to expand your army once you get a better feel for what it is you really want to play.

Two full Tac squads in Rhinos with special/heavy weps, Two Vindi's with dozer blades instead of siege shields, the Tac Terminators with AC/CML as you choose, and the TDA Librarian would give you roughly 985pts worth of Marines and a very solid foundation to build the rest of your future army upon.

The Tac marines can be used in any future Marine infantry squad, the Vindicators will end up being your favorite unit (believe me, they did for me, nothing beats seeing fear in the opponents eyes and dropping str10 ap2 large blasts on filthy xenos and heretics) and you always need them in 2's, and the Terminators are just fun to have and will under perform in competitive environments, but will be just fine in casual play.

For Tac squads I match their gear to their job. An aggressive mobile Tac squad will get a flamer/PG (with HB/MM if you really want a heavy) and a Rhino to move onto and assault objectives. A midfield controller will get a flamer/PG/GG and a MM or HB (Flamer/HB for defensive anti infantry, and MM/PG for offensive anti-everything, grav works with either). For backfield Tacticals I would take a long ranged Heavy (ML/PC/LC) to combat squad off, and a flamer (for a defensive squad) or Grav/Plasma for a more offensive squad to combat off the other five.

Also, I never spend the points on Combi-weapons or melee weapons for Tac squads. It just isn't my style and I'd rather spend the points elsewhere, though some people really do well with the combi's.

I prefer the AC to the CML for Tac Terms, though both will do a good job, so it comes down to your choice. I had pretty good luck using my Tac Terms to anchor my main battle line, but you can always deep strike when the situation calls for it.

I'd also consider running the Librarian with TDA/Storm Shield/Force Axe, as you can get decent shooting abilities from your psychic powers and the storm shield skyrockets your survival rate.


TL: DR - You might be better off starting with the basics until you learn what play-style really suits you.