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As the title says. For me I think the series really lost interest from around Fear to Tread.

Absolutely not, the best books are post fear to tread, Angel exterminatus, betrayer, Mark of calth, but I can totally understand the burn out, I started getting the audio books instead and love them

I lost interest at Fulgrim... The Space Snowflakes just didn't feel like Astartes to me and were emoting more than most Imperial Guard characters. Still, there's some that I go back specifically to read if it's a Legion I like, or an author I like. Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Ultramarines, I'll read those specific books an jumping around and cherry picking what I read now doesn't feel like it takes away from my experience.

HH and wh40k books are all pulp, and thus of fairly low quality. Of course, there are exciting moments, but what makes them generally quite bad is the style of prose. I understand descriptions are important, but as a speed reader I have never read books with quite this verbose.

What they should've done is put them ALL into short stories. They are generally far more interesting, because they don't have the luxury of 3 paragraph descriptions of Sanguinius' passed out body. IMHO, the only really good story is the Serpent Beneath; it has good plot, short and sweet, and not overly verbose. The plot isn't drawn out over hundreds of pages of adjectives.

I just started Fulgrim, and I have to say, it's my least favorite so far, but I'm determined to power through it.

Everything post-KNF has been on the downslope.

But I tie that mostly to the fact that the series is just milking the cash cow at this point.

The previous versions of Heresy story had Horus making a beeline for Earth after winning at Istvaan V to maximize his advantage while he had it (3 Legions destroyed, Ultramarines Dark Angels and Space Wolves delayed).

So right now they're just producing filler material. Which has been fairly low quality, and low importance. It really doesn't feel like anything of any consequence is happening anymore. The stakes are artificially inflated, but in the end, nothing in Unremembered Novel, Betrayer, Vengeful Spirit or Damnation of Pythos meant anything in the grander scheme of things, and Unremembered Novel especially creates plot holes that will have to be sewn up later (mostly to explain how the Blood Angels get to Terra but the Ultramarines don't, lol).

But there's too much money in the Heresy to actually finish it.

Damn. I can't even get past page 60 on the first book.

I am not seeing what is so good about Black Library books. I have read 3 or 4 books and I am not finding the writing that great. Average at best. I can't see how people are saying these books are so good.

I guess they are not just for me.

All of BL is pulp fiction. If you were expecting works of Great Literature, then you were expecting far, far too much.

But as far as pulpy page-turners go, certain entries in the BL library aren't bad.

 Psienesis wrote:
All of BL is pulp fiction. If you were expecting works of Great Literature, then you were expecting far, far too much.

But as far as pulpy page-turners go, certain entries in the BL library aren't bad.

I was expecting great, because a lot of people on the forums said it was great, awesome even. If they have said it was good, then that is what I would have expected. When people say, awesome, great, must haves, I expected a lot more. Now I know what to expect.

A book can be "awesome!" without being Moby Dick or For Whom the Bell Tolls.

Indeed. The Gaunt's Ghosts series, Eisenhorn series and the opening trilogy of the HH series are all fantastic- but the prose, characterization and plot within them are all middling and generic for genre fiction.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Everything post-KNF has been on the downslope.

But I tie that mostly to the fact that the series is just milking the cash cow at this point.

The previous versions of Heresy story had Horus making a beeline for Earth after winning at Istvaan V to maximize his advantage while he had it (3 Legions destroyed, Ultramarines Dark Angels and Space Wolves delayed).

So right now they're just producing filler material. Which has been fairly low quality, and low importance. It really doesn't feel like anything of any consequence is happening anymore. The stakes are artificially inflated, but in the end, nothing in Unremembered Novel, Betrayer, Vengeful Spirit or Damnation of Pythos meant anything in the grander scheme of things, and Unremembered Novel especially creates plot holes that will have to be sewn up later (mostly to explain how the Blood Angels get to Terra but the Ultramarines don't, lol).

But there's too much money in the Heresy to actually finish it.

I'd probably be interested in actually reading more of the novels if they started making sense. There is zero reason for Horus to wait to attack Terra. Every moment that goes by allows the Imperium to prepare. Meanwhile his control over the traitor legions becomes more difficult. In most war situations it would make sense to build up supply lines. However that simply isn't necessary here. Once the attack on terra begins there won't be time to pull up supplies from other sectors. There would also be no point to leaving reserve forces behind that can be called up later. The loyalists would know the goal is Terra so trying to draw strength away from that planet would be pointless.

Essentially the only real shot Horus had was to hit Terra immediately after the drop site massacre. So, yeah, I'm done with the novels.

That said, if you just want the story written as clearly as possible then get the big HH books from Forgeworld. You lose a little bit of some of the personal struggles but you have a tremendous gain in clarity. They have really gone out of their way to make it perfectly crystal clear.

Davor wrote:
Damn. I can't even get past page 60 on the first book.

I am not seeing what is so good about Black Library books. I have read 3 or 4 books and I am not finding the writing that great. Average at best. I can't see how people are saying these books are so good.

Yeah. "Getting meh" implies that they weren't meh before. I've made a serious attempt to get into this series (I think I tried four of them), but I never made it past the first chapter of any of them.

I got slated on another forum for having the temerity to say it but the entire series is extremely weak. To begin with when they were, at least, on the main storyline they were ok. The writing is very very average with no more than mediocre characterisations and prone to being too much a set of simplistic action scenarios.

After a while they just went haywire, firing off on all sorts of tangents and mostly extremely poorly written. They have utterly lost sight of the actual storyline and got hopelessly confused. It is impossible to get a grip on the chronology and get the bigger picture. Pumping out books from their whole school of writers with seemingly little or no quality control or oversight of the storyarch is bad. Some of the books, such as Nemesis are appalling sadly.

I know they see this as a money-spinner and want to spin it out for as long as possible but can we just get back to the actual story and not have to wade through book after book of dreary or seemingly irrelevant rubbish? They should have told the main story first then gone back and told all the offshoot stuff, the books would still have sold and they would not have lost so many readers to boredom and burnout (nobody I know has kept reading the series).

Rant over.

What books would you recommend for someone who just wants to read the progression of the main HH storyline and avoid all legion specific or short-story-compilation novels that break off at tangents?

To expand on my OP I think what really put the boot in for me was the whole Primarch Battle Royale rubbish - I am looking at you Unremembered Empire!

Is anyone else having issues with OPs (NoiseMarine with Tinnitus) comically large avatar?

Thing takes up most of my screen.

My tablet has just hit it with the rolled up newspaper of "nope." I just have a box with [Avatar] in it.

I actually thought it was deliberate!

I actually like most of the Heresy series. For what they are, pulpy scifi novels, I think they're fantastic, especially some of them (Legion, KNF, the best has to be First Heretic - I'd say FH surpasses the 'pulp' title and is a genuinely good book). The later ones have been mixed - I loved Scars and Vengeful Spirit, but then there's Damnation of Pythos and Vulkan Lives...

But having said all that, I actually liked Unremembered Empire so I don't think my tastes can be trusted

 Blacksails wrote:
Is anyone else having issues with OPs (NoiseMarine with Tinnitus) comically large avatar?

Thing takes up most of my screen.

Yeah, I thought Dakka's forum software limited the size?

Anyhow, Horus Heresy books... I basically think they got really meh after the first couple.

I think the issue here is one of expectation, it's the same as my friend who is constantly disappointed by Dr Who because he's in his 40s and fails to account for the fact that it is fundamentally a kids/family show and therefore is never going to be made to appeal specifically to his tastes and will therefore include themes and ideas that he doesn't like.

BL novels are not quality literature, they're not even the best quality in a genre known for it's pulpy nature.

The HH books are the only BL books I still read (and have all the MMPB versions on pre order with Amazon soon after they're listed.) The reason being that I enjoy them, in the main, because I grew up with the Heresy as this thumbnail sketch in the 40K background, and this series of books is akin to someone hanging around behind the bookstore in a long coat and going "psssst, you wanna know what really happened?"

I read all the novels, some I enjoy, some, not so much, but I don't let other people's opinions influence me unduly, positively or negatively, because I often find the books/games/movies I'm often most disappointed with are the one's that everyone else tells me are brilliant.

But the HH are not getting meh, certainly, Battle For The Abyss was actually quite early!

 Sir Arun wrote:
What books would you recommend for someone who just wants to read the progression of the main HH storyline and avoid all legion specific or short-story-compilation novels that break off at tangents?

Haha. That's remarkably east.

First Herestic -> Horus Rising -> False Gods -> Galaxy in Flames -> (maybe Fulgrim) -> A Thousand Sons -> Know No Fear, and you're caught up and can wait for the Battle of Terra book whenever it comes out.

Damnation of Pythos is the first one I haven't gotten. I just don't see what it offers to the overarching storyline, based on the blurb and reviews I've read.

More survivors of the Shattered Legions, eh? There's been so many groups of them popping up all over the narrative I'm beginning to doubt anybody actually died on Isstvan V.

Wake me up when Horus gets to Terra.

Wake up call set for 2046!

OK, avatar disabled.

I dont think the books are getting meh. I think the "adrenaline rush" o finally getting "first hand stories" is gone and they have become just another storyline.

Heres what I think they shoulda done....
- Do a big overall storyline of events to have been done in several books
-THEN do seperate mini-series of the characters involvement. that way we could focus on the names we are worried about.

Know No Fear was by favorite, but I couldn't even finish Unremembered Empire.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
What books would you recommend for someone who just wants to read the progression of the main HH storyline and avoid all legion specific or short-story-compilation novels that break off at tangents?

Haha. That's remarkably east.

First Herestic -> Horus Rising -> False Gods -> Galaxy in Flames -> (maybe Fulgrim) -> A Thousand Sons -> Know No Fear, and you're caught up and can wait for the Battle of Terra book whenever it comes out.

I'd toss vengeful spirit onto that list, I think it's reasonably important eneugh to be included.

The other day, I was trying to figure out what the next book in the series was going to be. I couldn't, there were so many audiodramas, limited editions, etc.

The stories have been slowing down for quite a while. I did not like the introduction of the Immortals, which don't seem to have much of a place in the 40k universe. Most of the characters are weakly developed, and I get the sense it's on purpose so the authors can drag out the series.

Meh is a kind word to describe the series at this point.

As if there was a linear progression of quality! These criticisms are so manufactured and false.

As a valid analogy there is a clear loss of direction, pace and quality in the Wheel of Time series both genuine failings on RJ's part in his ability to carry such a large series and his genuine health problems. It was still good. But those criticisms are more than true.

The HH series is different authors so claiming there has been a fall off in quality (or any suggestion that ADB is a bad author) makes me laugh as the quality is up and down, between individual authors in specific cases and in the variance between quality in different authors. The overall drop off in guidance is an editorial one who are guiding the ark and milking it, bad business and bad artistry in composing the story. But of course there are genuinely amazing things coming out (again, hate to be that fanboy but anything ADB produces) and Dan Abnett still occasionally pulls awesomeness out of his ass.

The frustration is just bleeding through from either bias against the HH series that was present before reading a sentence (looking at you old timers) or the people running the show who look to try and drag this to 150 books +.