How long does a unaffected Astartes live for?

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**Ashiraya**

akon4643 wrote:
Anyone know of any sources that mention the adeptus custodes dying from old age? Obviously they are not identical to marines but close enough to perhaps give us an idea of their life spans. I recall at least one heresy book having a character question how long they can actually live. I seem to recall the character having been a marine for something like 200 years at that point. That seems to show, at least in 30k, that 200 years was definitely not a normal lifespan for an imperial "citizen". So my guess isif or argument sake that a normal human in 40k that lives on a decent planet has a life span under 200 years for sure.

There is no recorded instance of either a Custodes or a Space Marine dying of age.

**Wyzilla**

Crimson wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
There's no evidence at all to support any claims of a limited lifespan, and you need actual evidence to defend anything you claim.

The evidence is that they flat out say it. Those exceptions you mention are special cases, achieved either by sus-an membrane or BA gene-seed.

No, they make a claim. Unless there is any evidence to support such a claim, then it's voided. "Flat out stating it" means nothing when there's multiple sources of evidence to the contrary.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orblivion wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
There is no "evidence" to counter. We have no record of any Astartes dying of old age, and we know of two that were over 10k years old, and one that was over 2,000. Meaning the claims of Dante being unique in age is false and only remarkable in that he has not died from injury.

The evidence is that the Blood Angels codex has stated that Blood Angels have unusually long lifespans even for Astartes ever since the Angels of Death codex. That note is still present in the new 7th edition codex. Like many things in 40k, you just pick the one you like the best.

7th edition BA codex, pg 18: "Physically the Blood Angels are among the longest lived of all the Space Marine Chapters. One of the peculiarities of their aberrant gene-seed is that it has vastly increased the lifespan of those who bear it, so it is not unheard of for Blood Angels to live for a thousand years."

We're not just making it up, but if you prefer the version that they are immortal then have it at.

There is no evidence to the contrary. There's claims, but there's zero evidence supporting them. We've never seen an Astartes die of old age, and meanwhile we know of a Black Templar over two thousand years old, an two Astartes that were older then ten thousand years.

**Psienesis**

Then perhaps 11k is their life-span and the BA will live to `8 or 20K.

**Wyzilla**

Psienesis wrote:
Then perhaps 11k is their life-span and the BA will live to `8 or 20K.

One was in perfect health, the other died due to getting less exercise then Orson Welles.

But there is nothing supporting marines having a fixed age. They're biologically immortal and there's no evidence to the contrary, as we've never seen one die of old age.

**Psienesis**

Other than the fact that we've not yet seen one live forever, and have a Codex stretching back to the beginning telling us that the Space Vampires live longer than any other Astartes.

**Redcruisair**

Okay, so let me get this straight. You have acid-spitting, power armor and rocket spewing machine guns weilding super soldiers, that fight demons and xenos like it was noody's buisness, and now you want them to be immortal too?

Why?

What purpose does biological immortality even serve when they all die in combat anyways. It does nothing else than makeing a already special snowflake army even more special snowflake like.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Redcruisair wrote:
Okay, so let me get this straight. You have acid-spitting, power armor and rocket spewing machine guns weilding super soldiers, that fight demons and xenos like it was noody's buisness, and now you want them to be immortal too?

Why?

What purpose does biological immortality even serve when they all die in combat anyways. It does nothing else than makeing a already special snowflake army even more special snowflake like.

So they can keep fighting. It's why the Emperor discontinued the Thunder Warriors, who were better soldiers but had shorter lives.

**Ashiraya**

They were designed to guard the finished Imperium, no?

Biological immortality would help with that.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Ashiraya wrote:
They were designed to guard the finished Imperium, no?

Biological immortality would help with that.

Yep. The Emperor wanted an army that could be active for centuries on end and could protect the empire's borders. Old age tends to get in the way.

**Animus**

Casius is the oldest active Ultramarine and he's not even four hundred yet, then there's the Grey Knight Librarians who retire to to become actual Librarians after they grow to old and frail for campaigning. The stories of Space Marines lasting for thousands of years like Epimetheus and Abdaziel Magron are accomplished with sus-an membrane which essentially halts all biological function.
I think the misconception that Marines are immortal comes from the Horus Heresy Marines repeating it ad nauseam, but they had only been around for a few hundred years and even at that Marines had already started to show signs of advancing age like Qruze.

Even in the Horus Heresy series they establish that Marines aren't immortal, and that makes Fabulous Bill crazy.

Angel Exterminatus wrote:‘Why?’ gurgled Cassander, flexing the bones of his mutilated hand as it throbbed painfully.
‘Because we are led to believe we are perfect creations,’ said Fabius, coughing a wad of black phlegm and holding his chest. ‘but nothing could be further from the truth. We are fragments of a greater whole, pale reflections of something incredible. Each of the Legions’ genetic structure contains a piece of that perfection, and I would know every secret of the Emperor’s workings.’
‘Why?’ repeated Cassander, knowing it was the most important question.
‘Because I don’t want to die,’ said Fabius, opening his robes to reveal two suppurating wounds crusted with tarry deposits. Sword wounds, but ones that hadn’t healed. ‘The Emperor’s soldiers who came before us, the Thunder Warriors, their gene-code carried the seeds of their own destruction. And the gene-boosted savages before them? They were fortunate to live as long as they did before their hyper-metabolism consumed them. The primarchs think their warriors are immortal, but they are wrong. We are as mortal as any living thing, we just take longer to die. I would not have it so.’

Then there's this little gem, what everyone's been asking for, something showing a Space Marine dying of old age (in an admittedly extreme circumstance but still).

The Iron Within wrote:Tavarre died of old age in the cruiser infirmary, just before reaching Lesser Damantyne.

**Asherian Command**

Animus wrote:
Casius is the oldest active Ultramarine and he's not even four hundred yet, then there's the Grey Knight Librarians who retire to to become actual Librarians after they grow to old and frail for campaigning. The stories of Space Marines lasting for thousands of years like Epimetheus and Abdaziel Magron are accomplished with sus-an membrane which essentially halts all biological function.
I think the misconception that Marines are immortal comes from the Horus Heresy Marines repeating it ad nauseam, but they had only been around for a few hundred years and even at that Marines had already started to show signs of advancing age like Qruze.

Even in the Horus Heresy series they establish that Marines aren't immortal, and that makes Fabulous Bill crazy.

Angel Exterminatus wrote:‘Why?’ gurgled Cassander, flexing the bones of his mutilated hand as it throbbed painfully.
‘Because we are led to believe we are perfect creations,’ said Fabius, coughing a wad of black phlegm and holding his chest. ‘but nothing could be further from the truth. We are fragments of a greater whole, pale reflections of something incredible. Each of the Legions’ genetic structure contains a piece of that perfection, and I would know every secret of the Emperor’s workings.’
‘Why?’ repeated Cassander, knowing it was the most important question.
‘Because I don’t want to die,’ said Fabius, opening his robes to reveal two suppurating wounds crusted with tarry deposits. Sword wounds, but ones that hadn’t healed. ‘The Emperor’s soldiers who came before us, the Thunder Warriors, their gene-code carried the seeds of their own destruction. And the gene-boosted savages before them? They were fortunate to live as long as they did before their hyper-metabolism consumed them. The primarchs think their warriors are immortal, but they are wrong. We are as mortal as any living thing, we just take longer to die. I would not have it so.’

Then there's this little gem, what everyone's been asking for, something showing a Space Marine dying of old age (in an admittedly extreme circumstance but still).

The Iron Within wrote:Tavarre died of old age in the cruiser infirmary, just before reaching Lesser Damantyne.

Thats why many people don't trust the black library XD

**thegreatchimp**

There was a Captain of the Luna Wolves in the first HH novel -I can't remember his name- but he was many centures old, and becoming decrepid and slightly senile (though still able to hold his own in battle, as he proved). Nonetheless it was clear he was declining with age...so can only assume that his mind would have failed him, or his body, within another century or 2. Maybe with the kind of extensive prosthetics available to them, they can stave off old age and death, but they're clearly not immortal, not from anything I've read anyway.

**Asherian Command**

thegreatchimp wrote:
There was a Captain of the Luna Wolves in the first HH novel -I can't remember his name- but he was many centures old, and becoming decrepid and slightly senile (though still able to hold his own in battle, as he proved). Nonetheless it was clear he was declining with age...so can only assume that his mind would have failed him, or his body, within another century or 2. Maybe with the kind of extensive prosthetics available to them, they can stave off old age and death, but they're clearly not immortal, not from anything I've read anyway.

You mean the old wolf? Hahaha no he kick plenty of ass even with his older age and proved to be stronger than many others. Even killing a biologically superior opponent.

He was made fun of.

He was halfheard because he lost his hearing in one ear.

**Wyzilla**

Animus wrote:
Casius is the oldest active Ultramarine and he's not even four hundred yet, then there's the Grey Knight Librarians who retire to to become actual Librarians after they grow to old and frail for campaigning. The stories of Space Marines lasting for thousands of years like Epimetheus and Abdaziel Magron are accomplished with sus-an membrane which essentially halts all biological function.
I think the misconception that Marines are immortal comes from the Horus Heresy Marines repeating it ad nauseam, but they had only been around for a few hundred years and even at that Marines had already started to show signs of advancing age like Qruze.

Even in the Horus Heresy series they establish that Marines aren't immortal, and that makes Fabulous Bill crazy.

Angel Exterminatus wrote:‘Why?’ gurgled Cassander, flexing the bones of his mutilated hand as it throbbed painfully.
‘Because we are led to believe we are perfect creations,’ said Fabius, coughing a wad of black phlegm and holding his chest. ‘but nothing could be further from the truth. We are fragments of a greater whole, pale reflections of something incredible. Each of the Legions’ genetic structure contains a piece of that perfection, and I would know every secret of the Emperor’s workings.’
‘Why?’ repeated Cassander, knowing it was the most important question.
‘Because I don’t want to die,’ said Fabius, opening his robes to reveal two suppurating wounds crusted with tarry deposits. Sword wounds, but ones that hadn’t healed. ‘The Emperor’s soldiers who came before us, the Thunder Warriors, their gene-code carried the seeds of their own destruction. And the gene-boosted savages before them? They were fortunate to live as long as they did before their hyper-metabolism consumed them. The primarchs think their warriors are immortal, but they are wrong. We are as mortal as any living thing, we just take longer to die. I would not have it so.’

Then there's this little gem, what everyone's been asking for, something showing a Space Marine dying of old age (in an admittedly extreme circumstance but still).

The Iron Within wrote:Tavarre died of old age in the cruiser infirmary, just before reaching Lesser Damantyne.

That Iron Warrior didn't die of old age. He died to the Hrud. The Hrud can kill planets. Even if something was biologically immortal, if they were attacked by the Hrud they would start to wither away, as simply being biologically immortal (IE your genes don't decay and kill you), you still need to exercise, produce new cells, eat, etc. The Hrud can age you so fast and rivet you to where you stand that you simply fall over and die. The Hrud could probably even age you to such a point that your atoms decay and fall apart to their half life.

**Psienesis**

Asherian Command wrote:
Animus wrote:
Casius is the oldest active Ultramarine and he's not even four hundred yet, then there's the Grey Knight Librarians who retire to to become actual Librarians after they grow to old and frail for campaigning. The stories of Space Marines lasting for thousands of years like Epimetheus and Abdaziel Magron are accomplished with sus-an membrane which essentially halts all biological function.
I think the misconception that Marines are immortal comes from the Horus Heresy Marines repeating it ad nauseam, but they had only been around for a few hundred years and even at that Marines had already started to show signs of advancing age like Qruze.

Even in the Horus Heresy series they establish that Marines aren't immortal, and that makes Fabulous Bill crazy.

Angel Exterminatus wrote:‘Why?’ gurgled Cassander, flexing the bones of his mutilated hand as it throbbed painfully.
‘Because we are led to believe we are perfect creations,’ said Fabius, coughing a wad of black phlegm and holding his chest. ‘but nothing could be further from the truth. We are fragments of a greater whole, pale reflections of something incredible. Each of the Legions’ genetic structure contains a piece of that perfection, and I would know every secret of the Emperor’s workings.’
‘Why?’ repeated Cassander, knowing it was the most important question.
‘Because I don’t want to die,’ said Fabius, opening his robes to reveal two suppurating wounds crusted with tarry deposits. Sword wounds, but ones that hadn’t healed. ‘The Emperor’s soldiers who came before us, the Thunder Warriors, their gene-code carried the seeds of their own destruction. And the gene-boosted savages before them? They were fortunate to live as long as they did before their hyper-metabolism consumed them. The primarchs think their warriors are immortal, but they are wrong. We are as mortal as any living thing, we just take longer to die. I would not have it so.’

Then there's this little gem, what everyone's been asking for, something showing a Space Marine dying of old age (in an admittedly extreme circumstance but still).

The Iron Within wrote:Tavarre died of old age in the cruiser infirmary, just before reaching Lesser Damantyne.

Thats why many people don't trust the black library XD

The Black Library is the only source for supposedly-immortal Space Marines.

**Animus**

Wyzilla wrote:
That Iron Warrior didn't die of old age. He died to the Hrud. The Hrud can kill planets. Even if something was biologically immortal, if they were attacked by the Hrud they would start to wither away, as simply being biologically immortal (IE your genes don't decay and kill you), you still need to exercise, produce new cells, eat, etc. The Hrud can age you so fast and rivet you to where you stand that you simply fall over and die. The Hrud could probably even age you to such a point that your atoms decay and fall apart to their half life.

It's said quite clearly that he died of old age. The Hrud can do more extreme things but that doesn't mean they always do do those things and didn't in this case.

**Wyzilla**

Animus wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
That Iron Warrior didn't die of old age. He died to the Hrud. The Hrud can kill planets. Even if something was biologically immortal, if they were attacked by the Hrud they would start to wither away, as simply being biologically immortal (IE your genes don't decay and kill you), you still need to exercise, produce new cells, eat, etc. The Hrud can age you so fast and rivet you to where you stand that you simply fall over and die. The Hrud could probably even age you to such a point that your atoms decay and fall apart to their half life.

It's said quite clearly that he died of old age. The Hrud can do more extreme things but that doesn't mean they always do do those things and didn't in this case.

Even a biologically immortal individual could die of old age if something that controls entropy were to attack them.

DNA after all, also has a half life.

**Animus**

Wyzilla wrote:
Animus wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
That Iron Warrior didn't die of old age. He died to the Hrud. The Hrud can kill planets. Even if something was biologically immortal, if they were attacked by the Hrud they would start to wither away, as simply being biologically immortal (IE your genes don't decay and kill you), you still need to exercise, produce new cells, eat, etc. The Hrud can age you so fast and rivet you to where you stand that you simply fall over and die. The Hrud could probably even age you to such a point that your atoms decay and fall apart to their half life.

It's said quite clearly that he died of old age. The Hrud can do more extreme things but that doesn't mean they always do do those things and didn't in this case.

Even a biologically immortal individual could die of old age if something that controls entropy were to attack them.

DNA after all, also has a half life.

They're not immortal if they can die, and I think they would have described it a little differently than "old age" if his atoms just fell apart.

**Psienesis**

Wyzilla wrote:
Animus wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
That Iron Warrior didn't die of old age. He died to the Hrud. The Hrud can kill planets. Even if something was biologically immortal, if they were attacked by the Hrud they would start to wither away, as simply being biologically immortal (IE your genes don't decay and kill you), you still need to exercise, produce new cells, eat, etc. The Hrud can age you so fast and rivet you to where you stand that you simply fall over and die. The Hrud could probably even age you to such a point that your atoms decay and fall apart to their half life.

It's said quite clearly that he died of old age. The Hrud can do more extreme things but that doesn't mean they always do do those things and didn't in this case.

Even a biologically immortal individual could die of old age if something that controls entropy were to attack them.

DNA after all, also has a half life.

Ehm, that's a mutually-exclusive condition. If your DNA is subject to entropy, then it has a finite lifespan. Your DNA does not change just because your cells are regenerative. If your DNA can degrade by the effects of time, then you aren't biologically immortal.

**Asherian Command**

Psienesis wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
Animus wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
That Iron Warrior didn't die of old age. He died to the Hrud. The Hrud can kill planets. Even if something was biologically immortal, if they were attacked by the Hrud they would start to wither away, as simply being biologically immortal (IE your genes don't decay and kill you), you still need to exercise, produce new cells, eat, etc. The Hrud can age you so fast and rivet you to where you stand that you simply fall over and die. The Hrud could probably even age you to such a point that your atoms decay and fall apart to their half life.

It's said quite clearly that he died of old age. The Hrud can do more extreme things but that doesn't mean they always do do those things and didn't in this case.

Even a biologically immortal individual could die of old age if something that controls entropy were to attack them.

DNA after all, also has a half life.

Ehm, that's a mutually-exclusive condition. If your DNA is subject to entropy, then it has a finite lifespan. Your DNA does not change just because your cells are regenerative. If your DNA can degrade by the effects of time, then you aren't biologically immortal.

I think people here are confusing invinicible with immortal - living forever; never dying or decaying or the better known version where Many fictitious species are said to be immortal if they cannot die of old age, even though they can be killed through other means, such as injury.

Invincibility is the lack of the ability to die. Meaning even if you are reduced to atoms you can still reform yourself.

Much like Majan Buu from Dragon Ball Z where he destroy entire planet and was then destroyed in the process but reformed himself from atoms.

There are only a few characters that are like this. Such as Lucius the Eternal who is literally eternal.

**Animus**

Asherian Command wrote:

I think people here are confusing invinicible with immortal - living forever; never dying or decaying or the better known version where Many fictitious species are said to be immortal if they cannot die of old age, even though they can be killed through other means, such as injury.

Invincibility is the lack of the ability to die. Meaning even if you are reduced to atoms you can still reform yourself.

Much like Majan Buu from Dragon Ball Z where he destroy entire planet and was then destroyed in the process but reformed himself from atoms.

There are only a few characters that are like this. Such as Lucius the Eternal who is literally eternal.

Invincible is being unable to be defeated, often shown as being unable to be harmed.
Immortal is being unable to die.
If you can die at all then you're not truly immortal.

**Psienesis**

No, I know what "biologically immortal" means, and I think you're flat-out wrong to believe that Space Marines would live forever if they hung out on a Paradise World.

Space Marines definitely age. There are many examples from a number of Chapters who remark on "getting old" across the span of centuries.

The fact that we have zero examples of Marines living forever, or even for more than 10K years, give or take, without a) technological support systems or b) the Warp, while we have four editions of books telling us that the Blood Angels are the longest-living of Space Marines tells us pretty much all we need to know about their longevity.

It's the simple fact that Codex: Blood Angels has repeatedly stated that they're the longest-living Marines that tells us that they have a finite lifespan. Otherwise, there'd be no reason to have such a line in the codex.

**Asherian Command**

Psienesis wrote:
No, I know what "biologically immortal" means, and I think you're flat-out wrong to believe that Space Marines would live forever if they hung out on a Paradise World.

Space Marines definitely age. There are many examples from a number of Chapters who remark on "getting old" across the span of centuries.

The fact that we have zero examples of Marines living forever, or even for more than 10K years, give or take, without a) technological support systems or b) the Warp, while we have four editions of books telling us that the Blood Angels are the longest-living of Space Marines tells us pretty much all we need to know about their longevity.

It's the simple fact that Codex: Blood Angels has repeatedly stated that they're the longest-living Marines that tells us that they have a finite lifespan. Otherwise, there'd be no reason to have such a line in the codex.

This might mean many things though. It could mean.
A: Blood Angels are incredibly resislent and rarely die because of injuries and are thus longer lived.
B: They live longer.
C: Its GW problem that they keep writing over and over

Also i was stating you were saying you didn't know I was clarifying what you meant.

Invincible is being unable to be defeated, often shown as being unable to be harmed.
Immortal is being unable to die.
If you can die at all then you're not truly immortal.

There are two different types of immortalities the one where you cannot die of old age and the one that you cannot die period.

For example in the Greek mythology the gods are immortal, yet they still can be killed. (I.E. The Titans)

There are multiple examples of Gods not aging but dying in combat.

**the shrouded lord**

I hate to correct you command, as so far you have been absolutely right (I believe so anyway) but the greek gods couldn't be kiled. it was possible for them to fade out of existance, but not for them to be killed. as demonstrated when chronos was chopped into many tiny pieces and still existed.
ouranous seems to be an exception to this rule, as he was blatantly murdered.

**Spetulhu**

Asherian Command wrote:
Psienesis wrote:
Space Marines definitely age. There are many examples from a number of Chapters who remark on "getting old" across the span of centuries. It's the simple fact that Codex: Blood Angels has repeatedly stated that they're the longest-living Marines that tells us that they have a finite lifespan.

This might mean many things though. It could mean.
A: Blood Angels are incredibly resislent and rarely die because of injuries and are thus longer lived.
B: They live longer.

Blood Angels do usually stay handsome and looking somewhat young up until the very end. Dante could pass for an old High Elf in LotR, and poor Captain Tycho takes his own disfigurement so hard that the Sanguinary Priests recommend permanent deployment. I guess the BA method of creation and rest (sleeping in a sarcofagus) normally repairs most or all of the outer signs of aging and combat. The radiation-scarred Baal scavvies they recruit emerge from their coffins as handsome gods of battle.

Other marines go grey with age and build up massive amounts of scars - that's a good sign that they're not truly immortal. Their bodies don't repair all the damage they suffer from wear and tear, even if they're capable of surviving injuries that normal men couldn't even with the finest care.

**tekno000**

Wyzilla wrote:
DNA after all, also has a half life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turritopsis_dohrnii#Biological_immortality

Not if you have the ability to replicate and regenerate it.

**Redcruisair**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ashiraya wrote:
They were designed to guard the finished Imperium, no?

Biological immortality would help with that.

Yep. The Emperor wanted an army that could be active for centuries on end and could protect the empire's borders. Old age tends to get in the way.

Yet, they don’t live long enough to do that. Biological immortality might as well not exist because it never comes into use. It’s just another gimmick to make your already ‘special’ space marine even more special.

**Wyzilla**

Psienesis wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
Animus wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
That Iron Warrior didn't die of old age. He died to the Hrud. The Hrud can kill planets. Even if something was biologically immortal, if they were attacked by the Hrud they would start to wither away, as simply being biologically immortal (IE your genes don't decay and kill you), you still need to exercise, produce new cells, eat, etc. The Hrud can age you so fast and rivet you to where you stand that you simply fall over and die. The Hrud could probably even age you to such a point that your atoms decay and fall apart to their half life.

It's said quite clearly that he died of old age. The Hrud can do more extreme things but that doesn't mean they always do do those things and didn't in this case.

Even a biologically immortal individual could die of old age if something that controls entropy were to attack them.

DNA after all, also has a half life.

Ehm, that's a mutually-exclusive condition. If your DNA is subject to entropy, then it has a finite lifespan. Your DNA does not change just because your cells are regenerative. If your DNA can degrade by the effects of time, then you aren't biologically immortal.

Biologically immortal means you aren't affected by genetic degradation- IE when each time your DNA copies itself, you get a slightly gakkier copy. This process leads to overall degeneration of the body, coupled with the neurons dying off, potentially leading to cancer at some point. However then there's the atomic lifespan of everything, where even DNA itself decays even if it's making perfect copies. This for example is why nobody can clone any Dinosaurs, as their DNA is non-existent at this point as DNA has a half life of 521 years.

**Crimson**

Wyzilla wrote:

No, they make a claim. Unless there is any evidence to support such a claim, then it's voided.

That's pants-on-head crazy! This is fiction, the reason why we know anything at all about the setting, is that the authors told us how things are.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wyzilla wrote:

Even a biologically immortal individual could die of old age if something that controls entropy were to attack them.

Keep grasping those straws!

**Wyzilla**

Crimson wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:

No, they make a claim. Unless there is any evidence to support such a claim, then it's voided.

That's pants-on-head crazy! This is fiction, the reason why we know anything at all about the setting, is that the authors told us how things are.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wyzilla wrote:

Even a biologically immortal individual could die of old age if something that controls entropy were to attack them.

Keep grasping those straws!

And it's fiction, and the authors have given us two examples of Space Marines living to be over ten thousand years old, and one who was two thousand years old. Meanwhile the Blood Angels have Jack and Gak backing up the line in their codex besides a kill made by a Hrud. And the Hrud probably don't even kill you through conventional biological aging.

The Hrud control entropy and can destroy entire planets. They are not an actual example of killing somebody with actual old age, especially when aging a biological life form several millennia while rooting them to the spot... hell just a couple centuries, should kill them alone from the lack of exercise, diet, etc.