Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey everyone! I'm just starting out as a high elf player and was wondering what numbers I should throw into squads?

Never played fantasy and currently doing some building. I already have 5 dragon princes and the island of blood elves. I was gifted a battle force but I really dislike the look of archers/supermen and want to do a cavalry list. So I was wondering how many Silverhelms I should place in 1 squad? I was thinking of trading the army box in to get 2 boxes of silver helms to make 2, 10 man squads, another box of dragon princes to make 1 squad of 10, and then buying a mage and prince, maybe two of each, to throw in my squads.

I don't have the rule book yet, my buddy bought me won but have to wait until he gets back home, we are probably going to play medium sized games, not sure what that is for fantasy, so I cannot be sure on points. But in an average sized game would my composition work?

You might be thinking about fantasy alittle to much like 40k, in fantasy unit size, type of unit, and formation all play a role in what they do, and what they should be used for

You should read the rules before making any hasty decisions, though ultimately unit choice is yours, having a understanding of what units do and what they are capable of will go a long way

Well i personally really love the Dragon princes and silver helm models. As well as the reaver. I would add on pheonix and titanic sky chariots. I am collecting models i like the look of and want to paint. I just want to know how many of each i should buy since i wont have a codex until next week. I just want to build and paint while still on vacation.

My theory strategy is to have a highly mobile force of cavalry with fast ranged units which can keap pace. Chariots and reavers with bows. After a squad has taken a few wounds i will launch a two pronged attacked with nearby silver helms or dragon princes. I know some units benefit from having multiple ranks. Therefore should i have 15 man squads of helm (3 ranks of 5) and 10 man prince. The points should be around 1500, im not asking for a "is this the best squad possible" answer im asking what a decent squad size is for these units are in a medium sized game.

Sorry for poor grammar , done ice my phone

Cav is generally run in a 5 man unit or a 15 man "bus". Rarely will you see 10 man units. As for which is best, that depends on your playstyle.

I recommend trying different things out & reading / watching some battle reports.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
Cav is generally run in a 5 man unit or a 15 man "bus". Rarely will you see 10 man units. As for which is best, that depends on your playstyle.

I recommend trying different things out & reading / watching some battle reports.

I use 9 Princes for my bus...

Mind you, the front rank is a wall of masters and a dreadlord.

Even silver helms are 5 man strong? Geeze thats small. Is it for tactical reasons, to many eggs in one basket?

Shaso_Keo wrote:
Even silver helms are 5 man strong? Geeze thats small. Is it for tactical reasons, to many eggs in one basket?

Depends what you use them for. Reavers should never be more than 5 strong in the current meta. I run silver helms in units if 6 with champs and standards, mostly because of them being awesome. I can't state how many times they charged something, took no wounds and broke it.

Princes either go in units of 6-7 with musicians, or a bus of ~10-15 with full command and the Banner of the World Dragon.

Cav is generally rarely seen in units larger than 5 simply because they become very large targets with more.

You could run Silver Helms in units of 10+ as character bunkers, but everything else would be too expensive and/or lose their utility too fast.

Cavalry are generally incapable of taking on large blocks of infantry by themselves. The exceptions being things like Chaos Knights or a full Brettonian Lance.

They're best used as 5 man flanking units that hit an infantry block in the flank while its in melee with your own infantry. The cavalry will generate a bunch of combat resolution without taking the full brunt of the infantry.

Did anyone else read the title of this thread and immediately think "... does it take to screw in a light bulb?"

Silverhelms are often run as chaff units in a 2-wide "dart." This is because, with martial prowess, all 5-6 of them can attack in this formation while minimizing their frontage (and thus damage from incoming attacks). It's a cheeky little tactic.

However if you're running them as a mainstay combat brick (say with a BSB with banner of the world dragon) people tend to instead run them as a brick of ~15 so that they can break steadfast and run gak down. Also for point denial purposes (protect a huge brick with Banner of the World Dragon to make it tough for your opponent to win them off you).

When I play with Silver Helms, I have them in units of 4 with a Prince or something that's mounted with them but the unit normally gets wiped out by the end. I essentially use them as extra wounds and attacks for the Prince. Dragon Princes I would defiantly use in units of 10 with the BOTWD to ATTACK head on a unit or their also amazing for flanking. Have the Elleryan Reavers from the IOB as well in units of 10 if you can but units of 5 still get the job done. Hope this helps

 EmpNortonII wrote:
Did anyone else read the title of this thread and immediately think "... does it take to screw in a light bulb?"

Q: How many horses does it take to change a light bulb?

A: Three. One to change it, one to make sure it's connected to the manes and another just to horse around. And even then, they'll be back soon, since the lightbulb won't stay in there furlong. Okay, that was terrible, but I'm foal of really bad puns you've never herd before.

*ahem*

Back on topic, Cavalry is, generally speaking, used for either one of two purposes, which determines its size. One is a cheap yet hard-hitting flanking unit, the kind of unit that your opponent can't ignore but, at the same time, isn't a huge loss if he kills it. These kind of units are always their minimum size (usually 5) with just a musician for an upgrade. The other purpose is a "bus", i.e. a unit that is there, primarily, for safely and quikly transporting a killy character or two into combat, and then dealing a fair bit of damage as well. These units usually aim for a footprint of 15 (i.e. 15 models including the character(s) which will mean 12-14 models). I do occasionally like to try out a unit of 15 Silver Helms (with no characters) in tandem with some Phoenix Guard, as it's a nice little unit in which every model can attack and one that fills up Core as well.

Either HE Cavalry unit works well for both these purposes, though, personally, I'm not sold on buses outside of Black Knights, since I believe that Elven Combat Characters aren't killy enough to build a list/unit around. Whatever sort of cavalry build you use though, I'd strongly recommend using some Phoenix Guard alongside them, to act as an anvil.

Finally, make sure you don't get Cavalry confused with Fast Cavalry, as both serve very different purposes. Incidentally, though, Fast Cav (and other redirectors like Eagles) are very important in Cavalry lists, since it's vitally important that you get the charge, so I'd definitely look to including some of them, and learning how they work.

So, welcome to WHFB! Hope this helps, any more questions, feel free to ask!

Ok so could I run 25 silver helms (15/10), 10 reavers (5/5), 10 Dragon Princes, and 10 phoenix guard in a 1500 point game?

Sounds like a very strong list with lots of movement. Are you going to have a mounted Lord or a Hero in there as well or one on foot in the unit of Phoenix guard? The list itself I would take and the twenty five Silver Helms would wipe out almost any unit. Hope this helps

 Loremaster Of Awesomeness wrote:
Sounds like a very strong list with lots of movement. Are you going to have a mounted Lord or a Hero in there as well or one on foot in the unit of Phoenix guard? The list itself I would take and the twenty five Silver Helms would wipe out almost any unit. Hope this helps

Thank you. Yes i want a very fast army. Ill eventually add flying units, i have the Griffin prince from IOB alrwady, but i really love the skycutter and pheonixs. I do intend to place a prince on horseback along with a mage in my dragon princes. A foot lord with my pheonix guard, i am not sure if i can yet but i would like to at least have a mage in my silverhelm squads, on horseback. I do not plan on having much infantry, i will be focusing on mounted combat and dragons/p heonixs in larger point games with sisters of a verlorn to soften up targets for my cavalry.

Well getting no responses so I'll ask my next question

Say I ran a left flank attack D/S/R-X D being dragon princes, S being silver helms, R being reavers and X being an enemy unit. Could I use the Reaves as a wall to stop a charge from X?

My understanding is that when my unit is charged I can elect to retreat and so long as I am not caught my unit is not whipped out. Since Reaves are fast cavalry I feel as though they have a strong chance of escaping. Would this then mean that Unit X would not be able to charge my silver-helms?

I have yet to play a game, playing my first on Sunday when my friend comes back to Ottawa, but I am trying to get a firm grasp on strategy. The advantage of this formation is that if I understand the retreat rules, and unit X is unable to charge again - it would draw the enemy unit out of position allowing my Silver helms and dragon princes to flank and charge the enemy unit.

Unit X would not be able to charge the Silver Helms in the same turn, no, but in the consecutive turns after they will be free to if the wheel around towards you if they wipe out the Reavers, but when I put the Reavers into close combat they normally get completely killed, although with some of the other units attacking a flank they could pull it off. Also, by the way, Dragon Princes are legendary at flank attacks. Hope this helps

Thanks man. Alright cool going to trade in my army box for my cavalry tomorrow.

I thinks my plan might work.