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Hi everyone,

I play in a casual group that sometimes gets a bit carried away and ups the game for a bit before everyone settles back down. We are at a competitive stage... I play against DE, BA, Orks and SW. With Venom spam, drop pod spam and 100 ork boyz on the table.

This is a list I'm trying to tweak any ideas would be great.

Lord MoN, Aura, Power Sword

Helbrute autocannon
Helbrute Multimelta

9 Plagues 2x melta with rhino
8 Plagues 2x melta with rhino

Mauler fiend with tendrils x 2
2 Obliterators MoN

Allies

Daemon Prince Nurgle, Wings, Lvl 3, Power Armour, Spell familiar

10 Shooty cultists

2 Obliterators MoN

So the Lord rides with the Plagues just being a lord. I know the Helbrutes aren't top stuff but I find with this much armour they tend to get ignored and I use them to hold up something for a turn or 2. My plan was to have 2 lvl psykers and spawn out some Plaguebearers and risk the perils but I thought with the flying prince I can do the same but better. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Matt

Hi, I quite like the list for the setting you've mentioned already, I do have a couple of tweaks to suggest though.

I know you've already touched on the Helbrutes, but I really feel that a squad of Spawn would really work wonders here, especially against what you've listed. So what I would do is drop one Helbrute and pick up a squad of those instead. They are far better at tying things up as you are now able to actually catch the units you're aiming for, plus they are more than capable of going through a lot of units as well.

Speaking of which, I'd also be tempted to swap your lord for a Sorcerer on a bike, that way you can take advantage of the Biomancy or Telepathy tree to really make your spawn something to shift (sorcerer, force axe, bike (to join the spawn and keep up), level 3, MoN) Now you have a DP, 2 maulerfiends and a Spawn ball all forcing down your opponent's throat which is very much a struggle for them to deal with, with good scoring and decent peel with the Obliterators.

I just feel that you can accomplish the task that you list the Helbrutes as for better with spawn. But either way, your list, if you want to keep them go for it .

A couple of problems, firstly with your list and secondly with Rampage's suggestions:

You can't take an Allied Detachment that is the same Faction (i.e. Chaos Space Marines) as your Primary Detachment, but you don't really need to here - you've only got 2 HQ, 2 Elite, 3 Troop, 3 HS (unless you're intending to run the Obliterators as individuals?).

If you take Rampage's suggestion and swap the Lord for a Sorcerer, your Plague Marines stop being troops. Also, if you do take a Sorcerer, consider not marking him - that way he gets more powers from the Discipline you want (Bio, Tele or Malific).

If you're set on the Helbrutes, have a look at the downloadable-dataslate for them - there are a number of options for fielding them.

 Quanar wrote:
A couple of problems, firstly with your list and secondly with Rampage's suggestions:

You can't take an Allied Detachment that is the same Faction (i.e. Chaos Space Marines) as your Primary Detachment, but you don't really need to here - you've only got 2 HQ, 2 Elite, 3 Troop, 3 HS (unless you're intending to run the Obliterators as individuals?).

If you take Rampage's suggestion and swap the Lord for a Sorcerer, your Plague Marines stop being troops. Also, if you do take a Sorcerer, consider not marking him - that way he gets more powers from the Discipline you want (Bio, Tele or Malific).

If you're set on the Helbrutes, have a look at the downloadable-dataslate for them - there are a number of options for fielding them.

Good shout about the Plague Marines. Completely omitted that bit. I would be tempted to just keep the Sorcerer and swap down the Plague Marines to Standard Marines. Saves you more points for Spawn or anything else you're interested in and in my opinion the benefits of a Sorcerer far outweigh the benefits of a Lord enough for this to be a worthy sacrifice.

As for the Allied detachment, Quanar is right, however you can just use the Black Legion Supplement or the Crimson slaughter supplement as an ally instead it isn't a huge problem if you're dead set on that. Or as mentioned you can combine them all into one detachment.

That said. I would definitely take Mark of Nurgle on a Sorcerer. Firstly, the Nurgle powers aren't atrocious anyway, and it's not like you can cast all of your powers in this edition anyway so even if the Nurgle Power is useless you can just use your dice on something else instead such as the other 2 powers which will more than likely contain something useful, or the Daemon Prince's Powers. And then the benefits that you get from the +1 toughness especially when you are on a bike already are huge. You now cannot be 'instant deathed' by anything that doesn't have force or a force like rule, and you are pretty much immune to fire from any non-dedicated shooting unit as you halve the chance of taking a wound from any weapon S4 or below.

 Quanar wrote:
If you're set on the Helbrutes, have a look at the downloadable-dataslate for them - there are a number of options for fielding them.

I'd advise taking the one that lets them Deep Strike, and making a fast CSM list around them (maybe getting rid of the allies?). Try reducing the number of marines on each unit (another one is generally better)

Buff out your Lord into an actual threat (say, with BBoS or put him on a bike into a Nurgle Spawn Unit.). That way, he can take fire away from your Prince and Maulerfiends, and can actually kill stuff in melee.

Try giving your DP a mace, and watch him killing everything at I8 (Wraithknights, Dreads, Chapter Masters...)

Do your maulerfiends really need tendrils?
You should just keep them for killing vehicles and save points.

I wouldn't try daemonspam with your DP (you're essentially wasting his points, as he'll rarely summon enough to make it worthwhile. That's why the cheap Tzeench Heralds are generally best for DaemonSpam): just roll on Biomancy with your Prince, and unless you roll the attack power everything is good:
Iron Arm makes you essentially unkillable with MoN, enfeeble makes stuff more vulnerable to your Black Mace's special powers, the third power lets you regen yourself or your Spawn, the 4th power makes you a better killer (+3 A, duh), the 5th power is deadly when cast on yourself or your spawn. Only thye 6th is really useless...

If you get the points somehow, get a Heldrake!
He can be anti-air if you don't want an aegis, as any good DP should be charging.

My only recommendation is to go with plasma vise Melta's. One of the beautiful things of plague marines is getting them into CC with the 4+ poison and re-rolls. Melta might slow that down as once you are close enough to use the 12" melta range you should be more focused on assaulting.

Son of aY3ti wrote:
My only recommendation is to go with plasma vise Melta's. One of the beautiful things of plague marines is getting them into CC with the 4+ poison and re-rolls. Melta might slow that down as once you are close enough to use the 12" melta range you should be more focused on assaulting.

1: Meltas are assault weapons, while plasmas are not: you can only charge after shooting meltas (so they're better for assault)

2: Due to changes in poison in 7th, you no longer get rerolls against marines and anything else T4.
Actually, you'll lose because of I4 and generally superior numbers

The perk to putting Plasma guns on Plague Marines is FNP and Blight grenades to hold a position.

Meltaguns are definitely a good choice for AT with a Power fist champion and Rhino. Poison provides a useful complement against MCs.

Thanks for the insight. I'll have a look at some spawn instead of the helbutes and putting the Lord on a bike. I'd like to keep the plagues I find they just stick around and are hard to kill.

Yeah, plagues are very good, but I'd recommend several small squads instead of two very big squads.