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 Matthew wrote:

I wouldn't say that your gun laws are fine.

I would, and I live here.

Why can't Obama get off his otherwise awesome bottom, and fix the problem?

Well that says it all, I suppose.

 whembly wrote:
We're a stubborn bunch... eh?



It's absolutely the truth too!

Especially true of those from German extraction like my wife, now she is thran

 Matthew wrote:
Why can't Obama get off his otherwise awesome bottom, and fix the problem?

What "fix" would that be?

It's clear Matthew has no clue what he is talking about, no actual knowledge of how our laws work over here, and no wish to learn, so stop engaging him on it guys. Let him just blow his steam.

 r_squared wrote:
I know that there has been some criticism from Americans about Europeans making comments about your culture, but this is why. To us it is utterly bizarre, almost incomprehensible that anyone should feel the need to arm themselves routinely to perform daily routine tasks.

I'm going to generalize a bit here, but I'm going to try not to be too abrasive about it. I also realize that there are non-American Dakkaites who have participated in very reasonable discussions on this matter, and I thank you for that.

The problem isn't that others are critical of American gun laws or find it strange that some Americans have a CCW license. I think all of us can understand why someone completely unacquainted with firearms might find that strange. That said, what really turns this into a contentious issue when it is discussed between American and European posters on Dakka is that (and I believe this is what others have been referring to when they talk about lack of respect for our culture), in a disappointing large number of cases, European posters tend to be, in general, grossly uninformed about American gun laws and culture, particularly when they hold such strong opinions of the issue. This isn't a bad thing on its own, because many of us are willing to discuss it, but this is combined with a willful ignorance and a complete disinterest in actually learning about the situation in the US, or why a person in the US might choose to carry a weapon. We have non-American posters who know little about the gun laws and culture of America, and criticize it from an openly belligerent position that they believe constitutes a moral high ground. Many times I have seen Dakka members ask questions about gun laws and gun culture in the US, and several American posters will give genuine, well-thought out replies, and then the poster will proceed to completely ignore them and continue to spout on about what they already (wrongly) assumed was the answer.

It's also a matter of language used. Instead of seeing it as a cultural difference, and saying something like "That seems strange to me, we don't do that here. Why do you feel the need to do it there?", we have posters with virtually no knowledge or experience of the subject who very quickly pass judgement, using words like insane, barbaric, bizarre, and mind-boggling, without making any real attempt to understand the issue outside of asking questions and completely ignoring any answers that don't reinforce the opinions they already have.

So yeah. That starts to get a little old, especially with those of us who are perfectly willing to discuss the issue in good faith. And it's not about everyone agreeing, it's about a little mutual respect.

 Hordini wrote:

 r_squared wrote:
I know that there has been some criticism from Americans about Europeans making comments about your culture, but this is why. To us it is utterly bizarre, almost incomprehensible that anyone should feel the need to arm themselves routinely to perform daily routine tasks.

I'm going to generalize a bit here, but I'm going to try not to be too abrasive about it. I also realize that there are non-American Dakkaites who have participated in very reasonable discussions on this matter, and I thank you for that.

The problem isn't that others are critical of American gun laws or find it strange that some Americans have a CCW license. I think all of us can understand why someone completely unacquainted with firearms might find that strange. That said, what really turns this into a contentious issue when it is discussed between American and European posters on Dakka is that (and I believe this is what others have been referring to when they talk about lack of respect for our culture), in a disappointing large number of cases, European posters tend to be, in general, grossly uninformed about American gun laws and culture, particularly when they hold such strong opinions of the issue. This isn't a bad thing on its own, because many of us are willing to discuss it, but this is combined with a willful ignorance and a complete disinterest in actually learning about the situation in the US, or why a person in the US might choose to carry a weapon. We have non-American posters who know little about the gun laws and culture of America, and criticize it from an openly belligerent position that they believe constitutes a moral high ground. Many times I have seen Dakka members ask questions about gun laws and gun culture in the US, and several American posters will give genuine, well-thought out replies, and then the poster will proceed to completely ignore them and continue to spout on about what they already (wrongly) assumed was the answer.

It's also a matter of language used. Instead of seeing it as a cultural difference, and saying something like "That seems strange to me, we don't do that here. Why do you feel the need to do it there?", we have posters with virtually no knowledge or experience of the subject who very quickly pass judgement, using words like insane, barbaric, bizarre, and mind-boggling, without making any real attempt to understand the issue outside of asking questions and completely ignoring any answers that don't reinforce the opinions they already have.

So yeah. That starts to get a little old, especially with those of us who are perfectly willing to discuss the issue in good faith. And it's not about everyone agreeing, it's about a little mutual respect.

Very well said.

 Ouze wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Does anyone know what type of gun it was?

I'm looking at my two year olds hands, and with the safety features on my handgun, it would be physically impossible for her to fire it. Her hand just isn't large enough.

So I'm curious what the woman was carrying.

I don't know, but I'd like to speculate. Dreadclaw speculated a Ruger in 380, so presumably he meant the Ruger LCP, which would have been my first guess too. I just googled though and it looks like that's a 5lb trigger pull.

My next guess was a S&W bodyguard in .380, but that looks like an 8lb trigger pull.

Taurus TCP in .380 is 4.8lbs.

Kahr P380 is 5.2lbs.

Now I'm pretty curious as well. 3lbs is a super light trigger. my 9mm is 6lbs and my 1911 is 5lbs. I wonder if she had a trigger job?

I read somewhere that it was a 9mm S&W Shield. For those not familiar, it's a subcompact 9mm.

 Matthew wrote:
I took Sweden as an example, because we have excellent gun laws. No school shootings. You know something's wrong with a country

I agree.

 whembly wrote:

 Matthew wrote:
Why can't Obama get off his otherwise awesome bottom, and fix the problem?

What "fix" would that be?

I don't know, maybe making it harder to buy guns, limiting concealed carry?

It looks like a Shield has a 6.5 pound trigger pull, so either whoever reported the trigger pull as 3 pounds was wrong, or she had a trigger job done.

 djones520 wrote:
Very well said.

Thank you.

 Matthew wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Matthew wrote:
Why can't Obama get off his otherwise awesome bottom, and fix the problem?

What "fix" would that be?

I don't know, maybe making it harder to buy guns, limiting concealed carry?

Obama can't just "waves his hand" and do that. That isn't how it works here.

 Matthew wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Matthew wrote:
Why can't Obama get off his otherwise awesome bottom, and fix the problem?

What "fix" would that be?

I don't know, maybe making it harder to buy guns, limiting concealed carry?

You mean like requiring a training course, background check, fingerprints, and license to concealed carry?

 Ouze wrote:

 Matthew wrote:
I took Sweden as an example, because we have excellent gun laws. No school shootings. You know something's wrong with a country

I agree.

Bromma Gymnasium? Crap school.
Also, sure, I didn't do my research, but come on, 30 versus 1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hordini wrote:

 Matthew wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Matthew wrote:
Why can't Obama get off his otherwise awesome bottom, and fix the problem?

What "fix" would that be?

I don't know, maybe making it harder to buy guns, limiting concealed carry?

You mean like requiring a training course, background check, fingerprints, and license to concealed carry?

Yeah, that and maybe more.

 Matthew wrote:
I didn't do my research

Hmm. Imagine that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Matthew wrote:
Yeah, that and maybe more.

What more would you suggest?

r_squared wrote:
I know that there has been some criticism from Americans about Europeans making comments about your culture, but this is why. To us it is utterly bizarre, almost incomprehensible that anyone should feel the need to arm themselves routinely to perform daily routine tasks.

Also, that.

 Matthew wrote:

r_squared wrote:
I know that there has been some criticism from Americans about Europeans making comments about your culture, but this is why. To us it is utterly bizarre, almost incomprehensible that anyone should feel the need to arm themselves routinely to perform daily routine tasks.

Also, that.

Also, read my reply to that post.

 djones520 wrote:
It's clear Matthew has no clue what he is talking about, no actual knowledge of how our laws work over here, and no wish to learn, so stop engaging him on it guys. Let him just blow his steam.

Oh, thats mature. I'm just pointing out my view of everything. From what I can see, US gun laws are dumb. As a Swede who has never touched a weapon, I find it hard to understand why people need a gun in their suitcase or purse or backpsck when shopping or driving a car or doing anything. I feel prefectly safe here without guns. I would not feel safe if everyone, incouding me, were carrying guns.

It should be noted that "American Gun Culture" people are talking about here isn't so much "American Gun Culture" as it is "Some Parts of America Gun Culture". America is a big place and far from wholly homogeneous. I can confidently say almost everyone I've approached the subject with is somewhere between skeptical to afraid of the idea that guns need to be/should be commonplace, and the larger gun-rights crowd in general.

I've met all of 3 people in my life that are openly gun owners and maybe 5 I would describe as being interested in shooting. I went with them once.. the whole thing left me feeling unsettled.

There are lots of places this wouldn't be the case in america, and others where people broadly share the views and feelings of those around me. It's absurd to put forward there's some set of cohesive america thoughts or feelings on guns of any sort.

 Matthew wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
It's clear Matthew has no clue what he is talking about, no actual knowledge of how our laws work over here, and no wish to learn, so stop engaging him on it guys. Let him just blow his steam.

Oh, thats mature. I'm just pointing out my view of everything. From what I can see, US gun laws are dumb. As a Swede who has never touched a weapon, I find it hard to understand why people need a gun in their suitcase or purse or backpsck when shopping or driving a car or doing anything. I feel prefectly safe here without guns. I would not feel safe if everyone, incouding me, were carrying guns.

Thanks for clarifying that you have no idea what you're talking about and no actual knowledge of how US gun laws work. It's appreciated.

 Matthew wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
It's clear Matthew has no clue what he is talking about, no actual knowledge of how our laws work over here, and no wish to learn, so stop engaging him on it guys. Let him just blow his steam.

Oh, thats mature. I'm just pointing out my view of everything. From what I can see, US gun laws are dumb. As a Swede who has never touched a weapon, I find it hard to understand why people need a gun in their suitcase or purse or backpsck when shopping or driving a car or doing anything. I feel prefectly safe here without guns. I would not feel safe if everyone, incouding me, were carrying guns.

It is mature. There is nothing mature about what you are doing. You are attacking another culture over issues you know nothing about. You are using talking points that you haven't even researched, by your own admission. You're demanding we have laws in place that we already have, demanding our President do things he has no legal power to do, and all in all refusing to listen to anything anyone else says.

There is only one person here acting immaturely, and that is you.

 Chongara wrote:
the whole thing left me feeling unsettled.

Funny.

When I took my 110lb sister in law for the first time, she almost immediately wanted to buy a pistol of her own and was sad our range time with the rifles ran out.

 Hordini wrote:

 Matthew wrote:
I didn't do my research

Hmm. Imagine that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Matthew wrote:
Yeah, that and maybe more.

What more would you suggest?

You expect me to reas through what, 50 pages of US laws before posting things in a wargaming form? I laugh at thee.
And also, how about if you had a single crime (except for crimes like jaywalking and feeding homeless people) in your database (or whateveryou guys have), you wouldn't be able to buy a gun. Also, why sell assault rifles? What good would an AK-47 do compared to an M1911, if their tasks are to protect a family's house?

 Matthew wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
It's clear Matthew has no clue what he is talking about, no actual knowledge of how our laws work over here, and no wish to learn, so stop engaging him on it guys. Let him just blow his steam.

Oh, thats mature. I'm just pointing out my view of everything. From what I can see, US gun laws are dumb. As a Swede who has never touched a weapon, I find it hard to understand why people need a gun in their suitcase or purse or backpsck when shopping or driving a car or doing anything. I feel prefectly safe here without guns. I would not feel safe if everyone, incouding me, were carrying guns.

What part of the US Gun Laws are dumb?
Clarify and maybe we can see where your going. If not then I m going to put you in the column with 44Ronin

 Matthew wrote:

 Hordini wrote:

 Matthew wrote:
I didn't do my research

Hmm. Imagine that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Matthew wrote:
Yeah, that and maybe more.

What more would you suggest?

You expect me to reas through what, 50 pages of US laws before posting things in a wargaming form? I laugh at thee.
And also, how about if you had a single crime (except for crimes like jaywalking and feeding homeless people) in your database (or whateveryou guys have), you wouldn't be able to buy a gun. Also, why sell assault rifles? What good would an AK-47 do compared to an M1911, if their tasks are to protect a family's house?

See, here you go again admitting you don't care to learn anything. So explain why we should continue to engage you on this topic?

 Chongara wrote:
It should be noted that "American Gun Culture" people are talking about here isn't so much "American Gun Culture" as it is "Some Parts of America Gun Culture". America is a big place and far from wholly homogeneous. I can confidently say almost everyone I've approached the subject with is somewhere between skeptical to afraid of the idea that guns need to be/should be commonplace, and the larger gun-rights crowd in general.

I've met all of 3 people in my life that are openly gun owners and maybe 5 I would describe as being interested in shooting. I went with them once.. the whole thing left me feeling unsettled.

There are lots of places this wouldn't be the case in america, and others where people broadly share the views and feelings of those around me. It's absurd to put forward there's some set of cohesive america thoughts or feelings on guns of any sort.

Absolutely this. Which is also part of the disconnect between a lot of American and European posters. The Europeans hear about a few Americans who concealed carry, and a few American Dakkaites post that they concealed carry, and all of a sudden some of the European Dakkaites start imagining the US as a wild west cartoon where everyone has a CCW and you have to have a CCW to be safe, which couldn't be farther from the truth.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Chongara wrote:
the whole thing left me feeling unsettled.

Funny.

When I took my 110lb sister in law for the first time, she almost immediately wanted to buy a pistol of her own and was sad our range time with the rifles ran out.

We can conclude from this that enjoyment of shooting does not stem from body mass or sex.

 djones520 wrote:

 Matthew wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
It's clear Matthew has no clue what he is talking about, no actual knowledge of how our laws work over here, and no wish to learn, so stop engaging him on it guys. Let him just blow his steam.

Oh, thats mature. I'm just pointing out my view of everything. From what I can see, US gun laws are dumb. As a Swede who has never touched a weapon, I find it hard to understand why people need a gun in their suitcase or purse or backpsck when shopping or driving a car or doing anything. I feel prefectly safe here without guns. I would not feel safe if everyone, incouding me, were carrying guns.

It is mature. There is nothing mature about what you are doing. You are attacking another culture over issues you know nothing about. You are using talking points that you haven't even researched, by your own admission. You're demanding we have laws in place that we already have, demanding our President do things he has no legal power to do, and all in all refusing to listen to anything anyone else says.

There is only one person here acting immaturely, and that is you.

I'm not demanding, I'm suggesting and asking. I felt a bit attacked when he said 'blow his steam', as if I'm some forever alone teenager (oh wait, I am). I'm just posting MY opinions on this subject.

 Matthew wrote:

And also, how about if you had a single crime (except for crimes like jaywalking and feeding homeless people) in your database (or whateveryou guys have), you wouldn't be able to buy a gun.

Felons are already disqualified from legally purchasing firearms. You'd know this if you'd done even the most basic of Google searches.

Also, why sell assault rifles? What good would an AK-47 do compared to an M1911, if their tasks are to protect a family's house?

1. Because they're fun to shoot.
2. They're easier to shoot and overall more accurate than any handgun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Chongara wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Chongara wrote:
the whole thing left me feeling unsettled.

Funny.

When I took my 110lb sister in law for the first time, she almost immediately wanted to buy a pistol of her own and was sad our range time with the rifles ran out.

We can conclude from this that enjoyment of shooting does not stem from body mass or sex.

I agree.

 Chongara wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Chongara wrote:
the whole thing left me feeling unsettled.

Funny.

When I took my 110lb sister in law for the first time, she almost immediately wanted to buy a pistol of her own and was sad our range time with the rifles ran out.

We can conclude from this that enjoyment of shooting does not stem from body mass or sex.

I've had a female who weighs a nickle less who would not be removed from the CROW B240. She even threaten me bodily harm if I attempted to replace her as my gunner. She was my De Facto Over Watch

 Matthew wrote:
I'm just posting MY opinions on this subject.

That's great. We're just telling you your opinion is utterly bereft of any factual substantiation and is wholly ignorant.