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Has there ever been an instance of marines having to fight under water?
Would a Space Marine suit be able to work properly under water?

There has been one. Its also being covered in another thread.

But for this one I refer to the battle for Kvarium Alpha:

"The Space Wolves of the Adeptus Astartes bring war to the waterlogged Tau world of Kvarium Alpha, their Drop Pods plunging deep into the oceans before disgorging their Space Marine passengers. As the land war rages above, a slow but deadly battle is joined between Space Marines and Tau Battlesuits in the depths of Kvarium's sea. Torpedos, prop-bombs and missles from the Space Solves Thunderhawk Gunships take a heavy toll on the Hammerhead and Manta gunships that gracefully move through the water to intercept. Hundreds of Tau and Space Marine corpses float to the surface, but the Space Wolves are eventually successful, and make the long walk back to land along the sea bed."

So it appears power-armor can function just fine under water or with some modification from a tech-marine.

I was gonna reference that battle as well.

I believe power armour works in outer space so there's a good bet it works underwater

Hmmm...

Slightly different pressures to deal with.

Atmosphere contained against hard vacuum ~14.5 pounds per square inch (at sea level pressures = maximum atmospheric pressure).

For every 33 feet down in water you experience another 14.5 psi.
So at 19,700 ft at the ocean basin the armor would experience 8,656 psi.
<edit> Yeah, this is why they wanted to get into some oxygenated liquid to breath at insane depths: few materials can withstand the pressure to maintain only 14.5 psi against thousands.

This has been equated to:
"In the deepest ocean, the pressure is equivalent to the weight of an elephant balanced on a postage stamp, or the equivalent of one person trying to support 50 jumbo jets!"
Those space marines are pretty darn tough... the Tau suits are no slouch either.

http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/pressure.html

I doubt the Tau would build a base below the Bathypelagic Zone: it's not a matter of whether they have the tech; it's rather that it's incredibly difficult to supply and maintain. If the planet had a continent, they'd have built it on the continental slope.

Also as much as it'd make a good hiding hole, any oceanic trench is a perilous place. Although a properly pressurized vessel (from present day) can perform prolonged explorations in even the deepest known trench on earth (Mariana Trench and James Cameron, lol).

 lcmiracle wrote:
I doubt the Tau would build a base below the Bathypelagic Zone: it's not a matter of whether they have the tech; it's rather that it's incredibly difficult to supply and maintain. If the planet had a continent, they'd have built it on the continental slope.

It did mention there was a land war going on at the same time so there was a land-mass of some kind. I think it also mentions Land-Raiders driving along the sea-bed in the newer lore.

Well, after reading the whole thing from the 5th edition codex and I got these following things:

1: The battle did took place on the seabed, AKA. the bottom of a trench;

2: The SW approached with Landraiders (exclusively), and only terminators fought as infantries, whereas Tau used "propeller-tailed battlesuits" and torpedoes.

3: The battle evidently ended when the Tau deep-sea domes got destroyed and the Tau fled.

So what i got from this is that:

1. Landraider, TDA, and at least certain Tau battlesuits are fitted with pressure-balancing devices;

2. Either Tau had too few Torpedo launchers along its seabed spanning city dooms, or the Space Wolves got too many Landraiders.

But I'd have to say the biggest thing I got out of this is that James Cameron evidently went looking for aliens when he rode on the Deepsea Challenger

Taffy17 wrote:
I believe power armour works in outer space so there's a good bet it works underwater

Talizvar already mentioned the pressure - a space suit/ship doesn't have to be made to withstand more than one atmosphere of pressure. PA can probably take more, seeing as you might want to fight on some high-gravity world with higher atmospheric pressure than places where humans usually live. But once the numbers add up there's little reason to go there and even less reason to build a suit that can take it.

And you'd get heat issues. In space you usually risk getting too hot as there isn't much to carry away heat from your suit/ship. Power Armor works in freezing temperatures, but water is a much more efficient conductor of heat than vacuum or air - you'd have to turn up the heat quite a lot.

The Imperial Answer wrote:
Hundreds of Tau and Space Marine corpses float to the surface."

\


Would space marines even float?

Eh... I thoght there was fluff about Land raiders and rhinos being seaworthy too.

 lcmiracle wrote:
Well, after reading the whole thing from the 5th edition codex and I got these following things:

1: The battle did took place on the seabed, AKA. the bottom of a trench;

2: The SW approached with Landraiders (exclusively), and only terminators fought as infantries, whereas Tau used "propeller-tailed battlesuits" and torpedoes.

3: The battle evidently ended when the Tau deep-sea dooms got destroyed and the Tau fled.

So what i got from this is that:

1. Landraider, TDA, and at least certain Tau battlesuits are fitted with pressure-balancing devices;

2. Either Tau had too few Torpedo launchers along its seabed spanning city dooms, or the Space Wolves got too many Landraiders.

But I'd have to say the biggest thing I got out of this is that James Cameron evidently went looking for aliens when he rode on the Deepsea Challenger

Planetstrike mentions drop pods assaults and Thunderhawks being used to counter Hammerheads and Mantas operating under-water (note: You mean to tell me the Manta is a warp capable craft that operates under-water too ?).

Tau craft aren't warp capable. They are noted as being one of 2 races that do not use the warp.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Tau craft aren't warp capable. They are noted as being one of 2 races that do not use the warp.

They do, they use warp dips though instead of full on diving in

 Great White wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Tau craft aren't warp capable. They are noted as being one of 2 races that do not use the warp.

They do, they use warp dips though instead of full on diving in

They sort of skim close to it, I like to think of it like time travel theories, they are traveling at a fast enough velocity to the point where time slows and reality distorts. (note traveling close to the speed of light does not distort reality as far as we know.

 lcmiracle wrote:
Well, after reading the whole thing from the 5th edition codex and I got these following things:

1: The battle did took place on the seabed, AKA. the bottom of a trench;

2: The SW approached with Landraiders (exclusively), and only terminators fought as infantries, whereas Tau used "propeller-tailed battlesuits" and torpedoes.

3: The battle evidently ended when the Tau deep-sea dooms got destroyed and the Tau fled.

So what i got from this is that:

1. Landraider, TDA, and at least certain Tau battlesuits are fitted with pressure-balancing devices;

2. Either Tau had too few Torpedo launchers along its seabed spanning city dooms, or the Space Wolves got too many Landraiders.

But I'd have to say the biggest thing I got out of this is that James Cameron evidently went looking for aliens when he rode on the Deepsea Challenger

as for torpedos. assuming they had the same stats as a kark missile they'd be pretty hard pressed to kill land raiders with em.

There is also mention of an under-water battle having occured in the Blood Angels novels on a world called "Dynikas V" between the blood angels and mutated sea-going tyranid organisms.

Doesn't the pressure of the water also depend on the planet's gravity? Given that it's an alien world, the gravitational aspects of the planet might make the pressure less than it would be on Terra.

NauticalKendall wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:
Hundreds of Tau and Space Marine corpses float to the surface."

\


Would space marines even float?

Well if they are less dense then water, but if they were less dense then how could they walk on the floor. Just don't think too hard about the logic. It's more just a impact full image.

According to forge World's figures, Land Raiders float, soo...

 Furyou Miko wrote:
According to forge World's figures, Land Raiders float, soo...

I;'m sure it's easy eneugh to modify them to operate under water... just tie some rocks around it!

 Furyou Miko wrote:
According to forge World's figures, Land Raiders float, soo...

Forge World also says that Land Raiders have megawatt lamps that would cause second degree burns.

It's also amusing as neither Land Raiders nor Rhino's are otherwise anywhere else noted as being particularly amphibious in any major degree, yet the humble IG Chimera is, and has in-game rules to support it

 Vaktathi wrote:
It's also amusing as neither Land Raiders nor Rhino's are otherwise anywhere else noted as being particularly amphibious in any major degree, yet the humble IG Chimera is, and has in-game rules to support it

Actually Land Raiders are said to be able to operate undersea, and move around by simply running along the seabed on their tracks in the 4th Edition Space Marine Codex.

The Land Raider can also function without ill-effect under the extreme pressures of submarine environments, using its powerful tracks to traverse sea- and riverbeds and assail the foes from an unexpected angle.
-- (Codex: Space Marines. 4th Edition. "Land Raider". print. p81)

I'd say the reason it doesn't have underwater rules is that it move just like on dry land.

 lcmiracle wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
It's also amusing as neither Land Raiders nor Rhino's are otherwise anywhere else noted as being particularly amphibious in any major degree, yet the humble IG Chimera is, and has in-game rules to support it

Actually Land Raiders are said to be able to operate undersea, and move around by simply running along the seabed on their tracks in the 4th Edition Space Marine Codex.

The Land Raider can also function without ill-effect under the extreme pressures of submarine environments, using its powerful tracks to traverse sea- and riverbeds and assail the foes from an unexpected angle.
-- (Codex: Space Marines. 4th Edition. "Land Raider". print. p81)

I'd say the reason it doesn't have underwater rules is that it move just like on dry land.

There is most likely a certain threshold of undersea mud that makes this impossible - in some places, (even riverbeds) the muck can get 1 meter thick - enough to bog even the most well-powered tank. Floating over it is a better idea, hence why the Chimera is amphibious

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
It's also amusing as neither Land Raiders nor Rhino's are otherwise anywhere else noted as being particularly amphibious in any major degree, yet the humble IG Chimera is, and has in-game rules to support it

Actually Land Raiders are said to be able to operate undersea, and move around by simply running along the seabed on their tracks in the 4th Edition Space Marine Codex.

The Land Raider can also function without ill-effect under the extreme pressures of submarine environments, using its powerful tracks to traverse sea- and riverbeds and assail the foes from an unexpected angle.
-- (Codex: Space Marines. 4th Edition. "Land Raider". print. p81)

I'd say the reason it doesn't have underwater rules is that it move just like on dry land.

There is most likely a certain threshold of undersea mud that makes this impossible - in some places, (even riverbeds) the muck can get 1 meter thick - enough to bog even the most well-powered tank. Floating over it is a better idea, hence why the Chimera is amphibious

Land raider does have .45 meter clearance

 lcmiracle wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
It's also amusing as neither Land Raiders nor Rhino's are otherwise anywhere else noted as being particularly amphibious in any major degree, yet the humble IG Chimera is, and has in-game rules to support it

Actually Land Raiders are said to be able to operate undersea, and move around by simply running along the seabed on their tracks in the 4th Edition Space Marine Codex.

The Land Raider can also function without ill-effect under the extreme pressures of submarine environments, using its powerful tracks to traverse sea- and riverbeds and assail the foes from an unexpected angle.
-- (Codex: Space Marines. 4th Edition. "Land Raider". print. p81)

I'd say the reason it doesn't have underwater rules is that it move just like on dry land.

There is most likely a certain threshold of undersea mud that makes this impossible - in some places, (even riverbeds) the muck can get 1 meter thick - enough to bog even the most well-powered tank. Floating over it is a better idea, hence why the Chimera is amphibious

Land raider does have .45 meter clearance

That's like... less than half of what I posted. And what I posted isn't even an extreme.

Call up the mechanicum we got the raider stuck in the mud

There are also references in 'Fulgrim' from the Horus Heresy, where the Emperor's Children had fights underwater during the Laer Campaign.

I was pretty much ready before this thread to think that each group would have some "ready made" vehicles and armor for use in liquids.
There are just such few instances we would want to properly conduct an underwater battle that models would not be out for them.
I am sure the Landraider will do just fine underwater, I am somewhat concerned of how it would do when filled with water to let the occupants out.
Power armor of ~400 lbs and Terminator armor of 880 lbs would not work terribly well in a mucky ocean bottom without snowshoes.
Ah well, this is fiction for a reason, I am sure the Eldar have something sufficiently stylish for flouncing around in the water.

 lcmiracle wrote:
Well, after reading the whole thing from the 5th edition codex and I got these following things:
1: The battle did took place on the seabed, AKA. the bottom of a trench;

1) seabed =! sea trench
2) sea trench =! sea trench. Not all planets have earth-like topology.

It's also amusing as neither Land Raiders nor Rhino's are otherwise anywhere else noted as being particularly amphibious in any major degree, yet the humble IG Chimera is, and has in-game rules to support it

Consider this: some RL MBT's can cross rivers. They are not amphibic however. It takes some time to prep the tank for crossing. With an amphibic vehicle you dont need preparations (or only ones that take a couple of minutes at best), you just drive right in. So while landraiders are not amphibic, with pre-battle preparations they could be made underwater worthy in a couple of hours work and a few litanies to the machine god & spirit.

I am sure the Eldar have something sufficiently stylish for flouncing around in the water.

Shiny one-piece suits woven with web-way magic...