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Ok. here's a more complete PDF. While it still needs title pages, contents and the legal disclaimer stuff so GW don't send Stormtroopers to kill us all, this is pretty complete in terms of profiles, I'm thinking. All I'm thinking of adding in that department is possibly some stuff for Necromancer Sauron and the Spectral Nazgul, but I think that will need a lot more thought and playtesting than what we've got so far, which at present is compete Iron Hills list, complete Azog's Army list and a hugely expanded Laketown army list.

All we need now is some Scenarios, to which end I'm thinking we could do with rules for the following:

White Council vs Sauron and the Nazgul
The opening of the Battle of the 5 Armies, a real pitched battle type affair (and, of course, the Elven Shield-jump!)
The Battle of Dale
Thorin's Charge
The Battle of Ravenhill (got some cool ideas for this one)

So if anyone wants to try their hand at writing up some of those then feel free. And thanks for all the effort put in so far, I think we're making something really quite cool here.

Looks good, might also need a disclaimer for New Line in case they come searching...

Tbh Nazgul could be a challenge, or just an edit of the LotR profiles (which is really boring and unadventuress, i know). In spectral form they could have some nice teleport rules.

For scenarios, i was starting to write a Battle of Five Armies one anyway so might have a crack at that. Trying to think of some fun victory conditions though as nothing comes from the opening battle in the film, just 'Defend the Mountain!'

The Battleof Ravenhill is featured in the new supplement from GW fyi so if you need any inspiration you could look there (pretty average scenario they've written though imho...).

Yeah, I'll find all the relevant disclaimers when I get around to putting the final thing together.

On the Nazgul, my thinking is to keep them all at the 'base level' of the LotR profiles (I think that's 0/10/0 in the Heroic stats, off the top of my head), and I was also thinking of giving them a special rule where they ignore Terrain. The only issue I can see is that, even with Gandalf out of action, the newest version of Galadriel is still clocking a Wraith a turn on average (3+ Banishment, ouch), and once they hit CC Elrond will be taking them apart too, so that might need balancing somehow. I'll give it a think later.

As for the opening part of BotFA, in the film the Orc's main idea seems to be to push the Dwarves/Elves back to the mountain before turning to attack Dale, so I'm thinking some kind of turn limit might be in order. It could be as simple as saying the Good forces have to remain above Breaking point for X turns, while the Evil forces have to Break them. Maybe have unlimited Orcs as well (obviously, the Good Forces would need more initial points to balance this).

As for Ravenhill, I think the GW one is pretty uninspired, to be honest. It's just a normal battle with a ton of heroes. My idea was to have essentially 4 Battlefields on 1 board.

1: Kili and Tauriel vs Bolg and Gundabad Orcs
2: Fili vs Azog and Moria Orcs
3: Legolas Vs Bolg
4: Thorin, Dwalin and Blibo vs Goblin Mercenaries. 'No more than a hundred, we'll handle it..."
THEN: Thorin vs Azog. The idea is that each of the previous mini-battles has an effect on the final showdown, so for example if Legolas kills Bolg Thorin gets Orcrist back, if Kili/Tauriel beat Bolg they join Thorin for the final fight, if Fili can wound Azog he goes in against Thorin weaker ect. In other words, I want to make everything that happens important to the last confrontation, rather than just a hero-fest free-for-all brawl like the GW Scenario.

It could be good fun to play around with the Nazgul a bit, a lot of potential. I like the idea of ignoring terrain. As for the Galadriel op issue, you could give the Necromancer a special rule that 'reanimates' or gives extra fate to them or something, like in the movie. Elrond kicking ass doesn't bother me at the mo, cos he is badass! Also a chance for giving exotic weapons to different nazgul. Don't have a picture with me but basing profiles heavily off the film is a primary aim i guess...

Good idea with the breaking point, i was also thinking of having one objective in the middle (or behind the dwarves/elves) that the orcs need to take in order to get battlefield superiority. There will defo be a special rule for jumping elves though!

Yeah, both the scenarios seem pretty rushed, as if they had the profiles and they needed to suddenly add some flavour and give people a reason to buy the overpriced models! I really like your idea though and cannot wait to see how it turns out!

I like that idea of Sauron having an 'area of effect' buff on the second wave of Nazgul (I'm thinking that, like the film, they all have to be downed once and then Sauron pops up, they all come back, Galadriel goes even more OP/Awesome and Round 2 begins). And with 2 waves, Elrond and Galadriel being able to take them on easily isn't such an issue. I'm not sure how unique I want to make the Wraiths, though, as I almost think having every model on the board with a different rule/profile might be hard to keep track of.

I don't know what you had in mind for the Elven Jump, but here's my idea for it, feel free to steal or ignore it:

United In Battle: At the start of the Fight Phase, if any Dwarf is in base contact with an Elf and at least one of the two is engaged in combat, the Elf and Dwarf may swap places. Proceed with the Fight Phase as normal.

Basically, lift Kili/Fili's Combat Synergy rule, so you have your elves behind the Dwarven shieldwall, Orcs charge that, you pull the switcherooo and BAM, elves in front supported by Dwarven pikes!

Alternatively, you could just allow any Elf to Support a Dwarf and vice versa, even if they don't have Spears, but that might be a little OTT, so maybe you'd want to weight the force lists/victory conditions in favour of the Orcs to balance it.

I actually added up the cost of the models in the Laketown scenario, you need about £650+ of minis before you even get into terrain. I wonder if that scenario will ever get played without hefty counts-as? Part of me really hopes not, as otherwise someone threw that much money at monopose Finecast

The different rounds sound like they could be great fun! As for non scenario use an interaction with sauron would be cool. You could do a standard profile for them, then have a different one for witchking and khamul? He definitely stood out in the film for me so would be cool to give him that weapon he had (i'm pretty sure he had a different one, right?).

As for the elves jumpy thing, i was just thinking that they can move their full distance even when moving through a dwarve/a battleline. Will enable the shieldwall to form up then the elves can 'move through it' and appear in front, just like in the movie. I do like the synergy idea though...


Edit: omg that scenario better be damned worth it!

Yeah, your Elf rule is better. Much simpler, more accurate, and very cool in practice, I imagine.

Ok, for Nazgul, maybe 7 normal, Khamul and the Witch King? That sounds doable. Khamul and TWK get a Might and Fate each, the rest just get minimal rule. Once they are all put down, they reform, Sauron gets placed (I'm thinking marker rather than model, as he doesn't actually fight) and when within X inches of him, they get a free Will Point each turn, which should level the odds a little.

I've just finished up Ravenhill, it's an epic double page beast of a scenario, with charts and everything Basically, battles 1-4 decide who shows up for the final fight, so Azog could end up with some Gundabad Orcs and Bolg, while Thorin could have Dwalin and Tauriel show as backup. Then there's a no-breaking-poiint fight to the death, to decide the whole thing. In practice, it should be pretty awesome!

Oooooh sounds epic! Can't wait to see it now, and of course play it!

Edit: Nazguls sound good, nice synergy with Sauron too.

Got Dol Guldur and Battle of Dale typed up, so now it's just the opening battle and Thorin's charge to do. I'm thinking the latter will be simple; 700 points a side, good guys get a Dain, Thorin, maybe a few more of the Company as part of that. Special rules wise, I'm thinking giving the whole Dwarf army the Du Bekar rule from the GW Supplement (Thorin=banner, basically). That, and possibly an endless wave of Orcs, the Dwarves must get half or more of their models across the halfway line.


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Out of interest, what are you thinking points-wise for your Scenario? I was thinking 800 a side, considering there's a lot of Heroes.

Also, I was thinking we should put in some rules for Azog's big signal things. Maybe giving the Evil side some one-turn one-use abilities as Azog gives the different commands.

Nice, i seem to be lagging behind a bit!

Maybe give good player defo Thorin, fili, and kili, then let them choose certain points value of the rest? I like the idea of them pushing through the hordes of orcs.

800 sounds good, don't know whether to give succinct lists of units to use or give the points and free reign, thinking the latter atm. Also, abolish warband rules for evil as they are an endless horde? Or just do this for 'reinforcements'. Going to use the rule in the original Balin's Tomb scenario of any orc that dies comes back on a 4+, meaning there aren't too many at once.

Yeah, i like the idea of the signal thing, maybe Azog's heroic actions (not heroic fight) affect all models on the board. Or one hero per turn gets free heroic march/move.

Things to think about, will write up the first draft of the scenario in an hour or so when i get back.

I was thinking Thorin, Dain, Kili and Fili, and the rest are optional.

I think you should just allow 800 points of free reign, but that must include Dain, Thranduil and maybe Gandalf? And yeah, scrap the Warband rules for the bad guys, MORE ORCS! 4+ for reinforcements sounds fair, but I'd make it infantry Warriors only. We probably don't want endless Troll or Orc Captains around. And possibly drop the oints so there's only, say, 600 points of Evil on the board at any one time, but it keeps coming back. Then have the Good forces survive X turns without Breaking to win?

Were you planning on including Azog in the battle? Because I love the idea of army-wide Heroic actions, but I don't think at that point Azog is getting his hands dirty, so maybe just allow 3 'disembodied' Might points that affect the whole board for one turn? That seems cool to me.

I think i'll do 400 points dwarves, 300 elves and 100 laketown refugees, to make sure it is kept thematic. Compulsory heroes of course, might include Bilbo as well.

I like the idea of having three might to be spent whenever in the game to represent azog commanding from ravenhill, will defo put that in.

Also thought of another rule, where elves can't benefit from dwarvish heroic actions and vice versa, to represent how on edge they are with each other.

Another thing i thought was that if the evil player can hold the entrance to erebor (or a point on that edge of the board that would mean they can take erebor) then they automatically win.

That would be another way to do it. Have the victory condition be that the Evil player must get, say, 25 models off the opposite Board Edge by a certain turn, while the Elves and Dwarves have to stop them. Actually, that would work quite well, and force the Good player to play defensive, which makes sense.

I like the Elf//Dwarf rule, that's cool. If I recall, though, there were no Laketown survivors at the opening of the battle, it was only when Azog's lot turn round and go for Dale that they join in. So maybe 100 poins just for a kind of 'negotaion' council could work, but I almost think you could drop them and do an even Dwarf/Elf split. The Laketown lot feature quite heavily in the next scenario anyway making up 2/3 of the Good force, so it's not like they'd be underrepresented.

Yeah good idea. I like it! Though that might be pretty hard, considering dwarves defence etc.. What about an objective (or two) deep in good's deployment which the orcs must control in order to launch a full on assault. This way the orcs on the objective can still fight and it feels more aesthetically pleasing than just walking off the board. Just my opinions anyway...

True, laketown probably aren't necessary. So are you thinking 400 dwarves, 300 elves, and others. Or 400, 400, and others. Gandalf and bilbo add up to 160 together. Probs the former imo.

Well it's your scenario, so your call, but remember that the ones that walk off the board can walk right back on the next turn as Reinforcements, so it does have an actual effect on the battle. But clearing the area around an objective works just as well!

In terms of forces, considering Evil have unlimited guys, 300 each Elves and Dwarves plus mandatory Dain, Thranduil, Gandalf and Bilbo. Versus about 6-700 in Orcs, with the Reinforcement rule. To be honest this is weighted towards the Good force in points, but the Special Rules and Victory conditions should help balance it.

Ok cool, just don't want to do something silly...!

Yeah good idea, will do the forces like that. Also, as i am going to make a map for it, i was going to make it 6 foot by 4 foot battlefield, but it might seem a bit big for some...

Am currently writing the scenario at the moment so there is a lot of the backspace being used!

I have Dale set on a 6x4 board, and this is similar points-wise, so I say that's fair and not too much of a stretch.

Yeah, tis what i thought. Cool beans!


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So i have finished the first draft for the Battle of Five Armies scenario. Format can be changed if needs be but i've just put the main information down. Ideas for changes/additions will probably be needed! Also, currently creating the map, will share that later. Enjoy

The Battle of the Five Armies

Layout

The battle takes place on the blasted planes between the once noble cities of Erebor and Dale. The board should be generally flat and be strewn with a few rocks.

Starting positions

All armies deploy fully in their respective deployment, Gandalf and Bilbo start with the Elves. Edit: in the absence of the map i'll describe deployment: 6'x4' table, 24" for orcs on southern side, 18" for Elves and 1/2 of the dwarves on Northern side, 6" in front of that for rest of dwarves to represent the original shieldwall. 24" between armies.

Participants

On the good side are: Dain Ironfoot; Thranduil King of the Woodland Realm; Gandalf the Grey; Bilbo Baggins Master Burglar; 300 points from 'The Army of the Iron Hills' list; 300 points from the 'Thranduil's Halls' list (excluding Legolas Greanleaf, Legolas Prince of Mirkwood, and Tauriel Mirkwood Exile). Note: Dain and Thranduil may lead Warbands, but Gandalf and Bilbo may not.

On the Evil side are: 600 points chosen from the 'Army of Azog and Bolg' list (excluding Gundubad Orcs and Gundubad Orc Captain). The usual rules for warbands do not apply, but at least three heroes must be taken.

Objectives

Erebor is the main prize for the armies of this battle, and two positions on the battlefield present themselves ideally for the Orcs to further their assault on the beleaguered mountain. Place two objective markers 12" from the Northern board edge and at least 6" from the side edges (Note: it fair to make sure both players are happy with the positioning, or let each player place one marker each.). The Orcs must hold at least one of these objectives at the end of the game to win. The Good player must stop them.

Special Rules

Never-ending Horde - The Orc army is constantly spilling from the were-wyrms' holes, seemingly without an end. Every time a non-hero model (excluding trolls and Olog Hai) are killed, set them aside instead of completely removing them. At the start of the controlling player's next Movement phase roll a D6 for each of these models. On a 4+ a model may return to the game from the Southern board edge.

Leading from the Back - Azog has positioned himself at Ravenhill, overlooking the battlefield, and has erected a cunning device through which he can direct the hordes of his armies below. The Evil player has at his disposal three Might points which he may use throughout the game for Heroic Moves, Heroic Marches, and Heroic Shoots. This Actions affect all friendly models on the board.

Ancient Enmity - The Elves and Dwarves have harboured a deep rivalry for many a century, and even in battle they distrust each other. No Elves may benefit from Dwarvish Heroic Actions, and vice versa for Dwarves.

Elvish Agility - The Elves are famed for their light-footedness and preternatural grace, and in the heat of battle during the Battle of the Five Armies they could be seen leaping over their Dwarven allies and into the fray. Any Elves may move through Dwarves as if they were not there and carry on their move, even though they may not normally do this. This can take them into combat if necessary.

I like the look of that. Only thing I'd add is that the Evil army can not include named characters. Other than that, I'll get that typed up into the main document and then I think we're just about done!

At this point, we have:
2 completely new army lists
1 massively expanded Army List
5 Scenarios

Pretty good, compared to what GW gave us! Anyone have anything else they thing we ought to add?

Oh yeah, didn't think about that. Glad you like it though

 Paradigm wrote:
Anyone have anything else they thing we ought to add?

Just a few digital editions, an extra dataslate or five for good luck, and a pointless WD feature. Oh, and a hefty price tag...

Edit: what about the dwarf seige ballistae, they could be pretty cool to do and use. Will try and find a still.

This bad boi:

Hah. Dataslate: Dain's Beard. Find out how to purchase this wonderful digital companion to the King of the Iron Hills in next week's White Dwarf!

Good call on the Ballista, I think I'll just port in the Ballista rules from the Free Peoples book, maybe with one or two stat/option changes.

*find out HALF of how to purchase this in next week's WD, the other half will follow shortly...

I was thinking more along the lines of the uruk hai ballista, just edited for dwarves and a little nerf. Will see what i can throw together...

Looking at the size, yeah the Uruk one would fit better. Off to edit I go...

So i've quickly put this together, interested to see what you make of it...

Dwarf ballista Pts: 50

Strength 9 Defence 10 Batter points 4

Dwarf F ..S D A W C
crew 4/4+ 3 6 1 1 4

Crew - A Dwarf ballista consists of a dwarf ballsita and three Dwarven crewmen armed with swords and Dwarf armour. Additional crew can be added an an extra cost:
Dwarf crewman: 8 pts

Special rules:

Piercing Shot - as per Fallen Realms

Flechette Bundle - this special type of ammunition consists of many smaller arrows trussed together into a bundle, and when primed correctly the bindings are designed to slip off at the peak of its trajectory, leaving the arrows to spread out as they come down to Earth. When this special round is fired and a hit has been scored against a Battlefield Target, and before any wounds have been resolved, roll a D6. On a 3+ the arrows have been primed correctly and the arrows are loosed, causing ALL models within 2" to also suffer a Hit.

Upgrades:

Flaming ammunition: 15 pts
Dwarf engineer captain: 75 pts
Superior Construction: 15 pts
Seige Veterans: 15 pts


Edit: stat formatting



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Just a quick photo of the nine for inspiration. Looks like khamul actually has a big mace/club thing... Nice! Heard a wild rumour that he was also in fact played by the mighty PJ himself! Who knows...

Ok, here we go! PDF as complete with title page, contents, army lists and scenarios (and pictures, because pictures are fun)! Still need to play around with formatting a bit, but I think it's come together pretty nicely. If anyone sees any mistakes, omissions or errors do let me know. And of course, feel free to print this off and use it, that's what it's for!

Nice! Just had a quick read and I really like it! No corrections noticed yet...

Edit: just noticed this in the Dale battle scenario in the deployment section for the Elves coming on, slightly nonsensical...

At the start of each Turn including and after the 4th, roll a D6. If the result is 10 or higher, the Elves immediately move on to the board from the appropriate Board Edge.

Should it have a reference to adding the turn number to the dice?

Also, in Percy's Eager to Impress special rule, it says "revere's", though i believe the apostrophe isn't needed due to it being a noun in the third person singular. Sorry for being a grammatical pedant!

right, probs a bit late but just wanted to show a quick draft of the map for the BotFA scenario. I can do the others as well if you want. anyhoo:

Good spots! I thought I'd fixed Percy's rule as I did spot that before, but apparently I forgot. I'll edit that, and yes, I meant to put in a count of the turn number on Dale.

That map is very nice, as you'll have noticed I haven't done maps for the others but I'll try and find space for that one. If you fancy drawing up some maps for the rest of the scenarios then feel free and I'll put them in.

Ok cool.

Yeah i would be more than happy to do more maps, will try and get them all done today but if not then tomorrow.

Cool! There's no hurry, I shan't be able to edit until late tonight at the earliest anyway. Rather than put them on the actual scenario pages, I'll add them in an appendix at the back (after all, what's LotR without appendices? ) and probably put together a profile reference sheer as well.

Okey dokey!

Appendices! This is growing by the second!