Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello Dakkadakka! This is my first post here

I play Orks (about 3000 points) and have recently picked up a small Blood Angels force (never counted, but probably about 1000 points). My friend who I game with almost every Saturday has a massive Imperial Guard army (probably around 6000 points) we both started at the same exact time, he just has more money and less Army ADD and hence having a decent amount more points than me). We've played probably close to 30+ games varying from less than 500 points to 2850 & I only lost 3 times (every time I lost he stacked the game against me like going unbound with 3 Russes in a 500 point match and not telling me until we we already set up or when I allowed him to pick the game type & he chose kill points and did some platoon ****ery where he only had 6 killable units (5 when he put Yarrick in a squad) and I had 14).

Recently we've gotten bored of going against each other and so we've been doing team games, Apoc teams & going against other people at the hobby story we go to. last Saturday I noticed something: he finally learned his army somehow. He always had trouble grasping good, consistent tactics for his army, and now he's finally doing what I always told him to do (hide in the corner of the board with a line of guardsmen behind an aegis line being a meat shield for the tanks & he's finally learned the best things to take for his army's core (he was always obsessed with manta cores, basic Russes, & weird scatterd guardsmen, which I just responded to with Meganobz, Bikes and Lootaz, now he's got Wyverns which wrecktate my Lootaz and Boyz & he takes Plasma Russes which wrecktate my Meganobz... that's like the core of my army, of any Ork army I've seen...). Last Saturday was essentially a proxy game between me and him, my friend who wanted to get back into the hobby wanted a trial game, I let him use my Orks (the army that acts closest to his Nids that was available) & I tailored a list with Wyverns in mind. Even with some pretty specific advice the game was essentially done first turn... there was literally nothing that could have been done, Plasma Russes are just too powerful for a Battle Wagon with Mnobz to handle, Lootaz melted to the Wyverns, a squad of 3 bikes intended to capture points, a Blitza-bomma & 2 squads of 30 'Ard Boyz wasn't getting all the way across the field (it was hammer and anvil) to win it. My first thought to respond to this is Bommaz, but he has a Quad Gun which he usually has Yarrick man so BS5 Skyfire, interceptor makes that plan null, I could split up my boyz into smaller squads and hope a lot of um get deep strike (I usually go battle forged out of the Better Codex... I mean WAAAAGH!!! Ghazhkull), but again this doesn't slove the problem because smaller squads are easier to kill, some Russ and guardsmen fire should take care of the ones with Deep Strike and the ones that foot slog it should be obliterated thoroughly by his Wyverns...

Any pro Ork player or perhaps a Blood Angels guy (I'm completely new to BA's, so I have no real tactics fleshed out for them yet) know how I can beat this? My 1 response I thought of is Bikes, lots and lots of bikes, but again, enough fire from those Wyverns and they'll die just the same + I don't have that many Bikes and it would take a while for me to save up for more.

Thanks in advance for the help.

 TheOrkySpaceMarine wrote:
Hello Dakkadakka! This is my first post here

I play Orks (about 3000 points) and have recently picked up a small Blood Angels force (never counted, but probably about 1000 points). My friend who I game with almost every Saturday has a massive Imperial Guard army (probably around 6000 points) we both started at the same exact time, he just has more money and less Army ADD and hence having a decent amount more points than me). We've played probably close to 30+ games varying from less than 500 points to 2850 & I only lost 3 times (every time I lost he stacked the game against me like going unbound with 3 Russes in a 500 point match and not telling me until we we already set up or when I allowed him to pick the game type & he chose kill points and did some platoon ****ery where he only had 6 killable units (5 when he put Yarrick in a squad) and I had 14).

Recently we've gotten bored of going against each other and so we've been doing team games, Apoc teams & going against other people at the hobby story we go to. last Saturday I noticed something: he finally learned his army somehow. He always had trouble grasping good, consistent tactics for his army, and now he's finally doing what I always told him to do (hide in the corner of the board with a line of guardsmen behind an aegis line being a meat shield for the tanks & he's finally learned the best things to take for his army's core (he was always obsessed with manta cores, basic Russes, & weird scatterd guardsmen, which I just responded to with Meganobz, Bikes and Lootaz, now he's got Wyverns which wrecktate my Lootaz and Boyz & he takes Plasma Russes which wrecktate my Meganobz... that's like the core of my army, of any Ork army I've seen...). Last Saturday was essentially a proxy game between me and him, my friend who wanted to get back into the hobby wanted a trial game, I let him use my Orks (the army that acts closest to his Nids that was available) & I tailored a list with Wyverns in mind. Even with some pretty specific advice the game was essentially done first turn... there was literally nothing that could have been done, Plasma Russes are just too powerful for a Battle Wagon with Mnobz to handle, Lootaz melted to the Wyverns, a squad of 3 bikes intended to capture points, a Blitza-bomma & 2 squads of 30 'Ard Boyz wasn't getting all the way across the field (it was hammer and anvil) to win it. My first thought to respond to this is Bommaz, but he has a Quad Gun which he usually has Yarrick man so BS5 Skyfire, interceptor makes that plan null, I could split up my boyz into smaller squads and hope a lot of um get deep strike (I usually go battle forged out of the Better Codex... I mean WAAAAGH!!! Ghazhkull), but again this doesn't slove the problem because smaller squads are easier to kill, some Russ and guardsmen fire should take care of the ones with Deep Strike and the ones that foot slog it should be obliterated thoroughly by his Wyverns...

Any pro Ork player or perhaps a Blood Angels guy (I'm completely new to BA's, so I have no real tactics fleshed out for them yet) know how I can beat this? My 1 response I thought of is Bikes, lots and lots of bikes, but again, enough fire from those Wyverns and they'll die just the same + I don't have that many Bikes and it would take a while for me to save up for more.

Thanks in advance for the help.

You can respond to IG artillery with Lobbas as they're barrage with reroll and s5 works vs av10 opentopped quite nicely. Personally, i've never liked current state lootas - the ones since our 4-th ed codex. The only thing i know about them is they drop like flies to ignore cover and fine against flyers unless it's cron air. I was happy when the 7-th ork codex dropped and we got mek gunz and cheap rokkits everywhere so that there was oficially no need for lootas no more.

Back to your stuff. Meganobz should hide out of los in their truck in the first place, trucks are not supposed to survive if they're in los of enemy weaponry.

The main aim is to stop wiverns and manticores. Personally, i always have a battery of lobbas and a couple KMK and hope to get a pen.

A truck of 'ardboyz (manz in your case - they function identically most of the time) and ~10 stormboyz with a pk bp nob - the guyz perform 22-27' charges on WAAGH! This units are quite versatile and can get his attention at least. And if he doesn't respond to them, will punish him bacly for doing it.

Anywayz, you should play maelstorm. That's the best way to force him actually move a bit and not just sit there pounding you with artillery fire doing nothing else.

As a Blood Angels Player i Would Play a List like this.

+++ New Roster (1912pts) +++

++ Blood Angels: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ HQ +

Librarian [Combi-Melta, Force Weapon, Frag and Krak grenades, Gallian's Staff, Melta bombs, Psychic Hood, Psyker (ML2)]

Librarian [Combi-Melta, Frag and Krak grenades, Melta bombs, Psychic Hood, Psyker (ML2)]

+ Troops +

Tactical Squad [Frag and Krak grenades, Meltagun, Multi-melta, 8x Tactical Marine]
····Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
····Tactical Sergeant [Combi-Melta, Melta Bombs, Veteran Sergeant]

Tactical Squad [Frag and Krak grenades, 8x Tactical Marine]
····Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
····Tactical Sergeant [Combi-Melta, Melta Bombs, Veteran Sergeant]

+ Fast Attack +

Assault Squad [9x Assault Marines, Frag and Krak grenades, Jump Packs, 2x Meltagun]
····Assault Sergeant [Melta Bombs, Veteran Sergeant]

Assault Squad [9x Assault Marines, Frag and Krak grenades, Jump Packs]
····Assault Sergeant [Combi-Melta, Melta Bombs, Veteran Sergeant]

Land Speeder Squadron
····Land Speeder [Multi-melta, Typhoon missile launcher]

+ Heavy Support +

Deathstorm Drop Pod [Drop Pod Assault-rule, Five Assault Cannons]

Deimos Pattern Predator Executioner [Lascannon, Plasma Destroyer, Searchlight, Smoke launchers]

Rapier Weapons Battery
····Rapier with Crew [Laser Destroyer]
········2x Space Marine Crew [2x Bolt Pistol, 2x Frag and Krak grenades]
····Rapier with Crew [Laser Destroyer]
········2x Space Marine Crew [2x Bolt Pistol, 2x Frag and Krak grenades]

+ Lords of War +

Cerastus Knight-Lancer [Cerastus Shock Lance, Ion Gauntlet Shield]

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

Against cheese IG Player..

 koooaei wrote:
You can respond to IG artillery with Lobbas as they're barrage with reroll and s5 works vs av10 opentopped quite nicely.

I can 2nd this. Maths wise, it isn't a brilliant option BUT it's the best way Orks have at taking out these things in the first turn (or 2nd). They work really well because after they've blown up the vechile, they can move onto something else, sniping certain problem characters/hqs, while still hiding out of sight.

 koooaei wrote:
Personally, i've never liked current state lootas... they drop like flies to ignore cover... mek gunz and cheap rokkits everywhere so that there was oficially no need for lootas

I can understand where Koooaei is coming from. Most good players know to do go for these first, however if you have multiple threats on the table, then the decission can be hard. I normally take at least one unit to a game, 15 strong + a HQ Mek. This is because I try not to construct my lists to take out any one army in particular and, as Koooaei has said, they're very good against fliers. I would rather take 15 of these than Traktor Kannons. Traktor kannons ARE better at anti-air but Lootas are more verstile and longer range. The issue is what else you have in your list, as you don't want your list to be a firing line:
5 lobbas, 3 to 5 KMKs, 15 lootas = a gun line. You'd probably be wanting to hide the lot behind an ADL tbh. But then you have no option for a Battlewagon. The downside of lootas is that there are better options for Heavy Supports in the Ork Codex.

 koooaei wrote:
play maelstorm. That's the best way to force him actually move

THIS is the key. This is why eldar wave spam is more effective than IG: their tanks aren't affected by terrain to the same extent.

To me, there are 2 different ways of running orks these days. Mass infantry (the green tide formation of 100 boys and a warboss) or a Bikestar. Bike star is very good against eldar wave spam. You can get up close and give create alot of threats. In CC, IG/AM don't survive long, and 1st turn turbo boosting with 17 bikers (15 regular, 1 painbiker, 1 warboss biker) is too much of a threat to be ignoring.

Extra point - I would really look into Tankbusters. They are brilliant these days. About 7ish in a Trukk with 3 Bomb Squigs or 15 + a Mek in a Rokkit Wagon. The number of Rokkits you have, and armourbane, is awesome against vechiles. Even better since they're open topped!

For Orks vs castled AM, outflank is your friend. Rokkit buggies or koptas, kommandoes with burnas (preferably with the W!G formation), Mogrok's bossboyz for outflanking tankbustas or manz.

I also stress the usefulness of lobbas. Those things are gold vs AM.

Sketchyfk wrote:


Extra point - I would really look into Tankbusters. They are brilliant these days. About 7ish in a Trukk with 3 Bomb Squigs or 15 + a Mek in a Rokkit Wagon. The number of Rokkits you have, and armourbane, is awesome against vechiles. Even better since they're open topped!

I start using tankbustas in trukk/BW , lobbas and/or KMK when 7th came out,and those units are awesome! Really worth looking at them.

Sketchyfk wrote:

All correct.

I dislike lootas more on a personal standpoint than tactical one. Haven't run them even in 5-th when they were better than in 6-7-th and orkses had literally nothing else other than burnas to compete for the slot (meganobz fell apart to power swords everywhere) as there was almost no ranged ignore cover and their shots wrecked and crippled vehicles much more often. Besides, it was boxhammer edition. Don't know i just dislike their aestetics. I think that lootas should actually loot thus be as close to the frontlines as possible making use of all the gear they've manage to loot beforehand. Anywayz, as stated in my previous post, it's just me and in no way i'm trying to say lootas are a bad unit. They have their goods and bads - for sure. It's just that there are new possibilities that make them skippable at will. And i use this possibilities cause i do want to skip them

About tankbustas. Note that tankbustas have armorbane only on meltabombz. They have tankhunter all around, though. As as it's a squad-wide buff, if you happen to join a mek in there, he's gona get tankhunter too. So, probably worth buying him a rokkit for 5 extra pts. Or even a bigshoota! No idea if a tankhunting bigshoota is more effective than a tankhunting rokkit

Really? Huh i thought we got the re-rolls with the Rokkits... damn that's ashame.

Mass rokkits have the bonus of being able to take on SOME infantry models too, even if they can't get the re-roll. but i would always say to take a Rokkit over a Big Shoota these days.

What about Kustom Mega-blastas on the Meks if they also gain Tankunter?

Sketchyfk wrote:
Really? Huh i thought we got the re-rolls with the Rokkits... damn that's ashame.

Mass rokkits have the bonus of being able to take on SOME infantry models too, even if they can't get the re-roll. but i would always say to take a Rokkit over a Big Shoota these days.

What about Kustom Mega-blastas on the Meks if they also gain Tankunter?

Tankhunter = reroll for armor penetration rolls if failed.

Armorbane = +d6 for armor penetration rolls.

Tankbustas get tankhunter.

KMB have a habbit of killing meks outright. Not less often than killing your opponent

Green Tide formation, Minimal side CAD to give you a painboy. Get as many boys as you can after buying Painboy, 10 PK Nobs in the tide, and Lucky Stikk/ Big Boss Pole for your Warboss... AAAAND that's the end of his IG, if you keep your guys spread out. Get a card that measures 2" and 6" for movement and coherency, so you can go quick and fast.

Lootas inside an imperial bunker (looted of course) with an ammo store do some great work. Put 8 inside (double-wide firing points) and re-roll 1s as well as protect them with AV14.

Outflanking skorcha buggies can also do a lot of work against that particular build.

MANz Missiles are great due to being cheap and durable against anything non-AP1/2 and can really wreck vehicles easily. take multiples, if 1 makes it you can multi-assault vehicles to punch rear armor 10 with a lot of s8 ap2 since he castled up.

I also have to second lobbas, 5 of them will absolutely destroy guard infantry that is blobbed up. Tankbustas are also an auto-take for lots of vehicles (once again take multiples because if 1 makes it that is going to be a whole lot of exploding)

A void shield generator could also help keep your backfield alive, 3 layers of regenerating Av12 is a decent amount of protection

Why not ALLIED Blood Angels and Orkses? Hey, they're all angry!

Two tac squads in drop pods with triple flamers (heavy flamer, flamer, hand flamer).

Two five man assault marine squads in drop pods with melta.

Cheap captain/librarian

All the rest in Orkses.

Drop pod the flamer squads next to his aegis line first turn, then flame all of his IG dudes out of cover. That should clear out enough room for the melta squads to come in second turn to kill the wyverns/russes. Meanwhile, Orkses advance unmolested while the IG are busy dealing with cheap tac marines and assault squads (and he really has to deal with them because, with FC, the BA tac squads are a real threat to his infantry in assault). Plus, Come the Apoc is not much of a problem in this matchup since all of the BAs are in reserve, so no deployment problems. Just watch out for "One Eye Open."

Have fun coming up with a story to justify this army, of course!

I'd take 3x30 man boyz blobs with a painboy in each, and a big mek/warboss with da finkin cap. For the 4/6 of games you roll master of ambush it should basically be auto-win, because there's no way he'll be able to kill 90+ boyz with fnp before they charge in turn 2. For the 2/6 of games you don't roll it you should still be in pretty good shape as long as you use cover well and play the objectives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Like koooaei said, stormboyz also work well with footsloggers, if you decide to go that route.

The maelstrom suggestion is great for breaking up static gunlines. Its what I would also recommend.

You could try foot slogging hordes as above but I know wyverns can wreck 100 boyz before they get there, unless they've infiltrated first that is.. and then theres blobs to deal with. I'm not against full mobz btw, just pointing out that wyverns CAN vape 100. Theres never a reason not to take mobz! Bikers otoh will be one of your more/only durable units so I would consider at least one unit.

Speaking of blobs btw if your open to forge world take a kill bursta and drop a 3d6" RADIUS blast of S7 ap2 ordnance goodness on his arse. That will change his deployment forever. He might even have night terrors over it.

Another idea, if hes tailoring for hordes, is to put a strong firebase behind some void shield generators. Orks can make a damn powerful fire base since they are great at counter assault by nature. In fact I used to face lists built around 4-5 lootas units behind 9 shields until maelstrom pretty much killed them. Thank gork. Either way I would definitely stock up on mek gunz and lootas.

Once IG gets you dialed in and tailors a little your gonna need something like the above to break them out of their funk or you can kiss most of your wins goodbye.