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So we know that Codex: Space Marines will undoubtedly get an update to 7th edition at some point, as they have had a new codex with every edition. My question is, what do you think they will change?

Here are a few things I have thought up.

1. Marneus Calgar and Pedro Kantor move to the LoW. Any and all Chapter Masters will go here. There has been precedent with Draigo, Grimnar, Dante, and Gabriel Seth all being moved to LoW.

2. The Chapter Master unit will be abolished. Again, precedent with Blood Angels not having the ability to make Chapter Masters for Successor Chapters. I guess they want us to use the Captain instead.

3. No more Bikes as Troops. This includes White Scars. There will be much complaining.

4. Techmarine becomes an HQ, just like in Blood Angels.

5. Command Squad and Honor Guard both move to Elites. Honor Guard might even be abolished and combined with the Command Squad. Command Squad requires the Apothecary and Company Champion,
but you don't pay points for them. This is what the Blood Angels codex did.

6. Rhino, Razorback, Land Speeder Storm, and Drop Pod become Fast Attack choices in addition to being Dedicated Transports. Keeps in line with SW and BA. Centurion players rejoice.

7. Possibly contains unique detachments for each of the Chapters in the book that might need them. Perhaps White Scars would get more Fast Attack choices in exchange for fewer Troops, like 1 HQ, 1 Troops, 2 FA required, with 2 HQ, 4 Troops, 6 FA, 3 Heavy available. Perhaps Imperial Fists would get more Heavy so they can use more Devs and Dev Cents. Crimson Fists might get more Elites due to their higher proportion of Veterans than most Chapters, and would have fewer Troops. Only Ultramarines would likely keep the standard CAD make-up since it fits the Codex Astartes the best. Some of these will probably appear in a Campaign book or White Dwarf to maximize profits.

8. Some of the Chapter Tactics might get a little bit of an adjustment. Hopefully RG will get a boost. WS will probably get a nerf.

...and I am out of ideas.

The chapter rules have never kept the previous format. In third there were no army-wide rules and terrible SCs, then there were traits, character-linked chapter tactics, then free tactics.

"Predictions:"

Captains go to ws5, wounds2.

There is no chapter master, as they don't sell a chapter master model.

Chapter tactics go away. GW are tired of selling 3x as many boxes to people who think the three types of black armored space marine are separate armies, and Jervis Johnson takes vows at a monastery.



The "new assault squad" is just re-boxed vanguard veterans. Vanguard don't have an entry anymore.

Sternguard lose special issue ammunition.

The LR crusader becomes HS and crusader squad only, for some reason.

The redeemer gets downgraded to TL heavy flamers, but gains Stubborn, somehow.

Lascannons can be taken as elite choices. They are BS0.

1: Lysander has a better chance of becoming a Lord of War compared to Pedro, because GW has a boner for Lysander. He might even take over as CM, since Pugh died in the Sentinels of Terra codex.

2: Blood Angels didn't have Chapter Masters in the last edition Codex, either, which came out after Space Marines 5th Ed. They'll keep Chapter Masters.

3+7: There will be a 'Outriders' Detachment of some kind, which is 1 HQ/2 FA. Bike squads will count as Objective Secured. Maybe it'll require Chapter Tactics: White Scars.

4: Blood Angels don't have Masters of the Forge. Techmarines might become HQ regardless, but Space Wolves have a similiar out of slot character, so I could see Techmarine staying the same.

5: Command Squad, probably. I could see Honor Guard staying, since it's pretty much the SM version of Sanguinary Guard. If they go into Elites, we too will have a bloated elites section.

6: Yep.

7(again): There will be one or two formations. One for the Bikes, one for Sternguard. Anything else will probably be covered in a supplement, like how Sentinels of Terra let Dev Cents be taken in elites and Assault Cents in FA (in addition to their standard Heavy/Elite as they are now). And, it's hard to do a campaign book for Codex: SM that hits everything; I doubt we'll see a campaign where the Imperial Fists, Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, White Scars, Salamanders and Black Templar all show up.

Unless they just focus on one (which would cause endless tears, especially since theres a higher chance of it being UM), in which case, meh.

8: They will probably stay the same, since they are fluffy. I can't really see anything being given to White Scars that fit the fluff as they do now.

Pretty much, all you are suggesting is that C:SM get hit with the bland bat. When they are already the bland ones. Considering Blood Angels kept everything that made them unique sans Assault Marines as troops, I doubt that they are going to start removing units from Codex: Space Marines. Blood Angels also got C:SM's unique gun too, plus Heavy Flamers on their tacs. Space Wolves got even more additions, with Helfrost, the new Dreads with Stormshields, flyers...

In summary, the changes are probably going to be:

Detachment for 1 HQ/2 Bike Squads, but no more captains/chapter masters making them troops. If they have Obsec on Fast Attack, it'll be on bikes only. (Or hey, maybe not, give Raven Guard some love?)

Calgar and Lysander as Lords of War

Slight tweaks to Chapter Tactics

Minor Tweaks to units.

Something that makes Space Marine players unload their wallet. Like a generic Honor Guard box, or new Terminators, maybe a plastic character kit, or hey, maybe a new unit?

Everything will pretty much stay the same, with just a few adjusments to 7e, new plastic models, calgar and lysander lord of war, no bike troops, games workshop wants us to take tactical marines so there probably wont be a bike detachment, but defiantly a bike formation.

1. In the fluff, doesn't Lysander refuse to take the role of Chapter Master until he kills his nemesis from the Iron Warriors? Obviously, they can do whatever they want with him. He definitely would make sense as a Lord of War since that is where they seem to be moving the Costs-As-Much-As-A-Land-Raider characters. I still think Kantor will probably get made a LoW, though. He is on par with Seth in terms of points.
2. I didn't have the last BA codex, so I wasn't aware of that. CMs do technically have a model in the form of the SM Commander.
3. I could definitely see that happening. I doubt Bikes would count as ObSec though.
4. Hard to say what will happen with the Techmarine. I would put my money on it going to HQ.
5. Good point on the Honor Guard. Though a bloated Elites section isn't that much of a surprise. If Honor Guard stay, they will likely get a new kit of some sort and some new options like being able to trade their bolters out for something.

I am not necessarily advocating the bland bat hitting C:SM, I just think it is probably going to happen. They will likely gain some options, though. Probably in the form of giving Assault Squads the ability to take Meltaguns and Plasmaguns(why should BA get the cool toys?). Some of the aging kits will probably see an update. I would not be surprised if we saw a new kit for Assault Squads as a result, with more choices (like a fething Power Maul!). If they made a new Tactical Terminator kit, it would make sense (perhaps including them in Deathstorm was so they could get rid of old kits). Maybe a new Razorback sprue will hit the the Las/Plas turret and a new Grav turret. I definitely think Chapter Tactics are going to stay, if not get expanded somehow. I do hope we see a new Techmarine model and a wider release of the plastic Chaplain and plastic Terminator Captain.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
1. In the fluff, doesn't Lysander refuse to take the role of Chapter Master until he kills his nemesis from the Iron Warriors? Obviously, they can do whatever they want with him. He definitely would make sense as a Lord of War since that is where they seem to be moving the Costs-As-Much-As-A-Land-Raider characters. I still think Kantor will probably get made a LoW, though. He is on par with Seth in terms of points.
2. I didn't have the last BA codex, so I wasn't aware of that. CMs do technically have a model in the form of the SM Commander.
3. I could definitely see that happening. I doubt Bikes would count as ObSec though.
4. Hard to say what will happen with the Techmarine. I would put my money on it going to HQ.
5. Good point on the Honor Guard. Though a bloated Elites section isn't that much of a surprise. If Honor Guard stay, they will likely get a new kit of some sort and some new options like being able to trade their bolters out for something.

I am not necessarily advocating the bland bat hitting C:SM, I just think it is probably going to happen. They will likely gain some options, though. Probably in the form of giving Assault Squads the ability to take Meltaguns and Plasmaguns(why should BA get the cool toys?). Some of the aging kits will probably see an update. I would not be surprised if we saw a new kit for Assault Squads as a result, with more choices (like a fething Power Maul!). If they made a new Tactical Terminator kit, it would make sense (perhaps including them in Deathstorm was so they could get rid of old kits). Maybe a new Razorback sprue will hit the the Las/Plas turret and a new Grav turret. I definitely think Chapter Tactics are going to stay, if not get expanded somehow. I do hope we see a new Techmarine model and a wider release of the plastic Chaplain and plastic Terminator Captain.

1. Agree that there will be some LoW changes. Calgar for sure.

2. I've heard a few people use the logic "they didn't do CM for BA". I don't think this is the best way of looking at things-different codex means everything goes out the window. I think CM will stay in.

3. Yeah, probably changes to the bike troops build. I'm guessing things will start moving towards a "If you choose these chapter tactics, then you make take formation X" or "if you choose these chapter tactics, following units change:....." The latter would let them combine DA, BA, SW (although SW would be tricky) and SM into one mega codex later.

4. Techmarines are already slotless HQ, and I think will stay this way. Again, not buying the "They did it to BA" logic.

5. Nope. This will remain the same in terms of slots, it makes no sense changing it-slots should change in response to addressing a balance, and HG and CS are the least of the balance issues in the codex.

6. Yep, this is almost a certainty.

7. Mentioned my thoughts on this above, probably going to happen.

8. I don't see why this wouldn't happen.

If Honor Guard stay, they will likely get a new kit of some sort and some new options like being able to trade their bolters out for something.

Don't think so. HG aren't used enough to justify making a new kit; CS have a kit because they're a choice for three HQs. I also don't think the bolters trade is likely-as soon as you can trade the bolters for special weapons, everyone will spam honour guard in unbound, and GW know it. Too tempting to have squads with special weapons, three attacks on the charge and power weapons, with one thunderhammer. Terminators will mean nothing.

Probably in the form of giving Assault Squads the ability to take Meltaguns and Plasmaguns(why should BA get the cool toys?).

Space wolves can also do this, and it basically arises due to the fluff for both of these factions-Assault squads are much more of a thing for BA, and SW don't care about the Codex Astartes or standard rules of engagement, the goal is what's important. I don't think it will change.

I would not be surprised if we saw a new kit for Assault Squads as a result, with more choices (like a fething Power Maul!)

Unlikely, I think. Can you think of any kit other than DA that has a power maul? Grav saw most kits being updated with grav pistols, I doubt they're going to update them again so soon.

Maybe a new Razorback sprue will hit the the Las/Plas turret and a new Grav turret

Las-plas has been a thing for a while. There hasn't been an official turret in ages (...if ever? Not sure about that far back) I don't see vehicle-mounted grav happening, unfortunately-I would use it in a heartbeat.

I do hope we see a new Techmarine model and a wider release of the plastic Chaplain and plastic Terminator Captain

I would love all of these things. The only one I see happening is the chaplain, maybe.

Codex SM makes a lot of references to successor chapters, so it wouldn't make sense to not have a generic Chapter Master. If anything they would probably make chapter master unique. Or a unique LoW that is upgradeable with gear options and choices.

Johnnytorrance wrote:
Codex SM makes a lot of references to successor chapters, so it wouldn't make sense to not have a generic Chapter Master. If anything they would probably make chapter master unique. Or a unique LoW that is upgradeable with gear options and choices.

I think the logic here is that BA and DA also have a big successor following, and both lost Chapter Masters. Not convinced SM will lose CM based on BA, but also not trusting to fluff to keep it in.

LoW/unique would be a nice way of handling things though.

Marneus Calgar is moved to low along with hellbrecht and ko sarro khan, (and vulkan)

No more bikes are troops

No more generic chapter masters or if they do retain them they will get a considerable price Jack or possibly reduce them to one per detachment (double chapter master users qq confirmed)

Crusader squads will move to a formation but require you field hellbrecht or grimaldus in your primary detachment, no more land raiders as dedicateds

Pedro Kantor will be written out of the codex he will be a datasheet for 7.50 that will require so many squads of sternguard or veteran vanguard. (possibly one datasheet for each)

Captains will move to 3w and remain at 90pts, chaplains will drop to 80 points, librarians will move to 75pts and the techmarine will remain as he is at 50 he will become an hq choice alternatively they bump him to 60 points and picks up feel no pain.

No more bike or terminator command squads.

Terminators will get a price drop, centurions will lose their ability to join to an hq possible become mc's or 1hull walkers that can ve bought as squadrons.

Whirlwind will fall to 60 points, thunderfires will become a 60 point upgrade for a techmarine.

Orbital bombardment will become a relic, existing named chapter masters will get it for free.

Are we expecting a new SM codex soon? I swear my current one still feels brand new

 Wulfmar wrote:
Are we expecting a new SM codex soon? I swear my current one still feels brand new

There is a New SM codex with every edition. That may change, it may not.

Considering Crimson Fists are one of the more iconic chapters, I highly doubt Pedro Kantor will not make the codex's cut.

 ionusx wrote:
Marneus Calgar is moved to low along with hellbrecht and ko sarro khan, (and vulkan)

No more bikes are troops

No more generic chapter masters or if they do retain them they will get a considerable price Jack or possibly reduce them to one per detachment (double chapter master users qq confirmed)

I could see all of those LoW changes, and I think everyone believes that bikes as troops are gone. I don't see a price jack on CM happening; the add-ons are what make CM OP; the base cost is about right.

Crusader squads will move to a formation but require you field hellbrecht or grimaldus in your primary detachment, no more land raiders as dedicateds

Doubt it. Crusader squads are currently linked to BT chapter tactics, which makes a great deal of sense, and lets you make your own Crusade-character formations usually require specific combinations of generally accessible units, not be the only way you can get a particular unit. Also, LR as dedicated transport is very much a BT thing-they won't take that away, if only because it boosts sales and is part of the fluff.

Pedro Kantor will be written out of the codex he will be a datasheet for 7.50 that will require so many squads of sternguard or veteran vanguard. (possibly one datasheet for each)

Nope, no way. Look at how Kantor is written-he doesn't make veterans troops or anything, he just makes them slightly more useful (or did, until everything became scoring). He'll stay the same, but give veterans ObjSec.

Captains will move to 3w and remain at 90pts, chaplains will drop to 80 points, librarians will move to 75pts and the techmarine will remain as he is at 50 he will become an hq choice alternatively they bump him to 60 points and picks up feel no pain.

Agree that librarian costs will go up slightly, but I don't see the rest of it. Techmarines getting FnP makes no sense

No more bike or terminator command squads.

As it stands, only deathwing can get terminator command squads-they're not taking that. I don't see them removing bike command squads, they'll probably just make it that your HQ has to be equipped the same. Not a bad limitation

Terminators will get a price drop, centurions will lose their ability to join to an hq possible become mc's or 1hull walkers that can ve bought as squadrons.

Terminators should get a price drop, but I don't think it will happen. Also not seeing the changes to centurions.

Whirlwind will fall to 60 points, thunderfires will become a 60 point upgrade for a techmarine.

Orbital bombardment will become a relic, existing named chapter masters will get it for free.

Not sure about the whirlwind, but I don't think the thunderfire will happen-it needs to be a heavy support slot. Orbital bombardment won't change

I predict the Iron Hands will see more of their uniqueness retconned out. They still wont have a named hq other than a really sucky fw Vaylund Cal (who has no model). If CM goes away that will be another hit to Iron Hands. If bikes as troops go, then so does a lot of the advantages of being iron hands. Would love to see Iron Hands getting back their uniqueness and fun, but that will never happen. With as much money that I have spent to make bike troops ect I may just quit if they go away.