Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As a devout Chaos player, I've notived that everyone I play against have Super-heavies, which is starting to get a bit annoying, seeing as I don't like super-heavies. I currently only have 3 Lascannons in my army, and even fewer Multimeltas.
Although it's easy to take down an IK, it gets hard when someone spams Land Raiders, Predators and DA Termies at the same time as their IK takes out all of my Anti-Armour forces. But just a few days ago, I read a Necron codex that said 'all Gauss weapons glance vehicles on sixes2, which is awesome.

My plan would be to buy a Necron battleforce together with a Command Barge and use them as cheap tank hunters, while my heavier guns focus on the superheavies. Will it work?

 Matthew wrote:
My plan would be to buy a Necron battleforce together with a Command Barge and use them as cheap tank hunters, while my heavier guns focus on the superheavies. Will it work?

Well, you just used Command Barge and Cheap in the same sentence, so no. That model costs about 300 points to field effectively and only really works well with specific army builds.

Further, whilst gauss in rapid fire range is pretty good anti armour, for the most part it only really serves as light harassment because vehicles are faster than that.

Oh, and you have the Come the Apocalypse allies issue.

If you're dedicated to the idea of Necron allies for relatively cheap anti-vehicle, buy an on-foot Overlord for his armourbane Warscythe along with some combat upgrades and Phaeron status so his unit can shoot then charge, a Harbinger of the Storm Cryptek for his four haywire shots, either warriors or Gauss Immortals to back them up and fill the troops slot... And a Night Scythe so they can all come in from reserves in it.

The Night Scythe is an excellent anti-flyer unit, and let's you avoid come the apocalypse issues entirely.

That said? I'd just check your own codex and battle brothers allies (Remember, renegades and heretics are an army now as well as daemons) for effective anti armour options.

changemod wrote:

 Matthew wrote:
My plan would be to buy a Necron battleforce together with a Command Barge and use them as cheap tank hunters, while my heavier guns focus on the superheavies. Will it work?

Well, you just used Command Barge and Cheap in the same sentence, so no. That model costs about 300 points to field effectively and only really works well with specific army builds.

Further, whilst gauss in rapid fire range is pretty good anti armour, for the most part it only really serves as light harassment because vehicles are faster than that.

Oh, and you have the Come the Apocalypse allies issue.

If you're dedicated to the idea of Necron allies for relatively cheap anti-vehicle, buy an on-foot Overlord for his armourbane Warscythe along with some combat upgrades and Phaeron status so his unit can shoot then charge, a Harbinger of the Storm Cryptek for his four haywire shots, either warriors or Gauss Immortals to back them up and fill the troops slot... And a Night Scythe so they can all come in from reserves in it.

The Night Scythe is an excellent anti-flyer unit, and let's you avoid come the apocalypse issues entirely.

That said? I'd just check your own codex and battle brothers allies (Remember, renegades and heretics are an army now as well as daemons) for effective anti armour options.

Necrons and Chaos Space Marines are Allies of Convenience.

 Matthew wrote:
Necrons and Chaos Space Marines are Allies of Convenience.

Ah, that's inconvenient. I thought they had fixed that with the edition change. Shame, Chaos is the faction Necrons would be least likely to ever associate with.


In that case, I still wouldn't buy the battleforce and a barge. That's a good starting point for a Necron army, but if you're trying to specifically plug a hole in the army you're better off buying what aids you most directly.

My suggestion is probably about as points cheap as you can get for dedicated anti-vehicle. If you take Gauss as dedicated anti-vehicle you'll be disappointed. Gauss is supplementary anti-vehicle.

Storm Crypteks are the cheapest and one of the most effective anti-vehicle options, but need a delivery mechanism due to their 12 inch range. A Night Scythe can be that delivery mechanism and a good anti-flyer, anti low to medium AV hunter. You need an HQ? An Overlord with a Warscythe has Armourbane, so is good for assaulting heavy vehicles if he can get close enough. You need a Troops choice? Warriors or Gauss Immortals.

Want to spend a little more on anti-vehicle after that? Scarabs. Can't go wrong with a scarab horde.

Well I wouldn't listen to the above poster since they recommended a foot Overlord over a CCB. Depending on how many points you have, the CCB + The solar relic makes for an awesome fire magnet that can put the hurt on MSU and vehicles all while being fast. I still use the Destroyer Lord + Wraiths but I'm expecting a change in the new codex, so that might be a crapshoot of a more expensive investment.

If I were you, I wouldn't spend any money on any Necrons until after the next codex...just in case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And change mod is correct...a Command Barge isnt really a cheap option.

You might think some on getting some more Lascannon Havocs...or some Obliterators.

If you do want to collect some Necrons for an Allied Detachmnet for AT, I'd also go with changemod's recommendation...however I wouldn't touch Immortals for your purposes. A cheaper Warrior is just as good as an Immortal against AV11 or higher.


But again, I'd advise patience to see what rules the new Necron codex offers, and if they might come out with any new boxsets or starter boxes like they've been doing with other armies.

For cheapness, a Warscythe-wielding Phaeron in a Night Scythe with some Guass Immortals and a Royal Court of StormTeks sets you back 465 points and can deal potentially 16 hull points damage in turn one

as Allies of Convenience, you don't have a no-deploy bubble, so you can put the 5 Crypteks anywhere you have space, and then in your turn teleport them to where they need to be and let rip with the Haywire

That should deal with any Superheavies

Immortals are no better against Super Heavies than Warriors are...waste of points for AT purposes IMO.

nah, they are better at anti everything else, and tend to last slightly longer as well

However, for pure AT purposes, Warriors will suffice, but you may need to bring more before they become efficient

 IHateNids wrote:
nah, they are better at anti everything else, and tend to last slightly longer as well

This would be why I said either/or yes. Personally I'd either run more than minimum Warriors so they actually have board prescence or Immortals for a minimum size unit as they'll hit harder after their target is down against lists with low armour or well spaced out medium armour.

But yep, bargain basement version would be just a minimum warrior squad.

Two options could be:

Buy a Night Scythe, a box of Immortals, a Lord model of some sort and a Vampire Counts Cairn Wraith. Stick a Deathmark head from the Immortal box and some spare hands onto the Cairn Wraith and you have your cryptek.

Buy a Night Scythe, a box of warriors and a Lord Model. Convert the cryptek from one of the warriors and field the three scarab bases as a little extra anti-vehicle prescence for less than 50 points.

Rapier laser destroyer battery from IA13

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well I wouldn't listen to the above poster since they recommended a foot Overlord over a CCB. Depending on how many points you have, the CCB + The solar relic makes for an awesome fire magnet that can put the hurt on MSU and vehicles all while being fast. I still use the Destroyer Lord + Wraiths but I'm expecting a change in the new codex, so that might be a crapshoot of a more expensive investment.

As for this: You can indeed, if you take a Mephrit Dynasty detachment with a minimum of three troops choices, take a 400 point or so Lord of War level Command Barge that has effectively no weaknesses and a S8 weapon that makes up for it's fairly low damage output by opening up instant death and making it even more likely to destroy vehicles.

It's only a fire magnet for as long as your opponent is dumb enough to not realise it's functionally immune to the shooting phase and needs to be killed or tarpitted in combat though.

Another choice for auto-glancing armor: Plaguebearers.

Pros:

- They are battle brothers to CSM
- Decently cheap at 9 ppm
- They're a troop choice so you can get some objectives if they live past their job (especially with their free cover save). It also helps with FOC

Cons:

- Sloooow. They are melee only and can't run (S&P). You'd have to deep strike them, meaning you're waiting for a reserves roll, then hoping they don't mishap, then hoping you don't get shot off the table, then hoping you've got their armor boxed in enough so that your Plaguebearers can catch up and do their thing.

I run Chaos Crons all the time and love the combination. The crons are my primary army though, so I have the chaos side mostly to fill in strategic gaps. Mostly close combat and meltas.
That said, a barge lord with a few night scythes (carrying warriors and harbingers of the storm) and some Annihilation barges is a compact and useful force to field. 905 points for a version with two scythes and three barges. You can save a 150-240 if you downgrade to a foot slogging overlord or and ax a barge.
Either way should leave you plenty of points to field your effective chaos units.

The thing is that I both want to start a Necron force AND use them as a sort of anti-armor punching bag. According to Mathhammer, I'll take away 4 Hull Points from say an Imperial Knight if I rapid fire 40 shots. That, together with a few Chaos Lascannons, will finish it off very quickly.

Or you could solo it with 160 points

plus the requirements to take that unit, which you'd be taking anyway

 Matthew wrote:
The thing is that I both want to start a Necron force AND use them as a sort of anti-armor punching bag. According to Mathhammer, I'll take away 4 Hull Points from say an Imperial Knight if I rapid fire 40 shots. That, together with a few Chaos Lascannons, will finish it off very quickly.

I'm not sure you realise how difficult it is to get twenty rapid fire gauss shots next to a Knight. Warrior blobs aren't mobile and survivable enough to be dedicated anti armor, only to help out a bit with the rest of the army's anti-armour.

Yes, they'll flatten a land raider or weaken a Knight if said model just politely rolls into rapid fire range without killing any of them, but otherwise you'll just be clipping off one or two HP if you don't have a more pressing target you can harm more with that massed otherwise-a-Bolter shooting.

changemod wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well I wouldn't listen to the above poster since they recommended a foot Overlord over a CCB. Depending on how many points you have, the CCB + The solar relic makes for an awesome fire magnet that can put the hurt on MSU and vehicles all while being fast. I still use the Destroyer Lord + Wraiths but I'm expecting a change in the new codex, so that might be a crapshoot of a more expensive investment.

As for this: You can indeed, if you take a Mephrit Dynasty detachment with a minimum of three troops choices, take a 400 point or so Lord of War level Command Barge that has effectively no weaknesses and a S8 weapon that makes up for it's fairly low damage output by opening up instant death and making it even more likely to destroy vehicles.

It's only a fire magnet for as long as your opponent is dumb enough to not realise it's functionally immune to the shooting phase and needs to be killed or tarpitted in combat though.

And how players really run fast tarpits that can catch it?
80 points for the CCB is infinitely better than paying for Phaeron and taking Immortals.

unless he's trying to keep it cheap, which is his intention at the moment

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
And how players really run fast tarpits that can catch it?
80 points for the CCB is infinitely better than paying for Phaeron and taking Immortals.

Everyone. With the need to move over units to sweep, it has an effective range of about twelve inches. You could turbo boost close to a conveniently isolated Devastator squad or something, I guess.

It's really not hard to ram a cheap unit into it and clog it up for a few combat rounds with it's limited number of strikes though. You're not going to be getting a few lucky wounds in the process anymore with the solar thermesite, but hey.

changemod wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
And how players really run fast tarpits that can catch it?
80 points for the CCB is infinitely better than paying for Phaeron and taking Immortals.

Everyone. With the need to move over units to sweep, it has an effective range of about twelve inches. You could turbo boost close to a conveniently isolated Devastator squad or something, I guess.

It's really not hard to ram a cheap unit into it and clog it up for a few combat rounds with it's limited number of strikes though. You're not going to be getting a few lucky wounds in the process anymore with the solar thermesite, but hey.

Well let me know of these really fast tarpits that Eldar, Tau, Space Marines, Daemons, Dark Eldar, and Imperial Guard run! Oh wait...
None of the competitive versions of these armies run something close to what you're describing. Sorry, but you're just giving bad advice at this point. Immortals as a bodyguard is laughably worse than the CCB as you pay more for less mobility, as well as you becoming more likely to be tarpitted with a more committed amount of points with these scenarios your proposed with everyone having a quick moving tarpit.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well let me know of these really fast tarpits that Eldar, Tau, Space Marines, Daemons, Dark Eldar, and Imperial Guard run! Oh wait...

Why would they need to be fast? Standing nearby and able to usually not run when they loose two members is more than enough to pin it.

Sorry, but you're just giving bad advice at this point.

You think "Take a nearly four hundred point lord of war level point sink and three units of required troops as your allied detachment" is better advice? If he was doing Necrons as his primary, sure, whatever.

You may as well be telling someone asking about guard allies to take a Baneblade variant at this point.

Immortals as a bodyguard is laughably worse than the CCB as you pay more for less mobility,

You need to take those troops anyhow, they'd be there either way, and they're not there to be his bodyguard, he's there to buff them. A foot Overlord needs far less upgrades than a Barge Lord does to be effective... Indeed, the trap easiest to fall into is giving too many, whilst the entire concept of a Barge Lord falls apart if you don't pay for a laundry list of mandatory buffs.

Phaeron is a bit of a tax to pay, but I only suggest that because the only other way to get a foot Overlord into combat on his own terms is for him to leave the unit, and that's a terrible idea on a number of levels.

as well as you becoming more likely to be tarpitted with a more committed amount of points with these scenarios your proposed with everyone having a quick moving tarpit.

The reason a Command Barge is so vulnerable to tarpitting is it's restrictive movement rules requiring it to fly over a unit every turn to earn it's points back, extremely close operating range and tiny number of attacks. (Three per turn if it gets charged on a massively expensive model) A foot Overlord escorting an existing unit has none of those difficulties.

It's not even particularly risky to tie it up: With I2 when pursuing, if the tarpit fails to hold him for a turn you've most likely taken 1-3 casualties.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For a quick comparison, I did two versions of my list and two versions of your Barge Lord with Solar Thermesite idea:

Me 1:

Phaeron with Scythe, Weave, Mindshackle Scarabs and Orb,

Stormtek,

Ten Warriors,

Night Scythe.

435 points.

Me 2:

Same, but change the ten Warriors to five Immortals and drop the orb because it ceases to be worthwhile in such a small unit.

360 points.

You could take 5 warriors to make it 320, I guess... But at that point you're just taking the warriors as a tax to get the flyer, which is honestly an attitude I detest from Cron air players. If you're going to take troops, have a plan to utilise them for something when they hit the board.


Bargelord:

First off, you need to be a Mephrit detachment or formation to take the relics, so that's a three troop choice tax...

Version 1:

Bargelord, Scythe, Weave, Scarabs, Phase Shifter, Orb, Solar Thermesite.

Three Stormteks,

Three five Warrior units,

Three Night Scythes.

800 points.

That's not making good use of the benefits of having a Mephrit detachment though: Rerolling ones on reanimation for troops means nothing with units of five troops who are very easy to deny the chance to reanimate so...

Version two:

Same, but make each warrior unit have ten members instead of five.

995 points. Either way, you're starting to get to the point where you may as well be the primary detachment.

@changemod: don't think you can field 3 stormteks with only 1 bargelord. It should be max 1 tek each type for only 1 lord

Nope, it's 1 whole court for each Overlord.

So, he can take a Vieltek & 3 stormteks from a single Overlord no problem.

You may be getting mixed up with the special issue Wargear for each Harbinger, as they can only be taken once per court, which is by extension one per overlord

 Javorra wrote:
@changemod: don't think you can field 3 stormteks with only 1 bargelord. It should be max 1 tek each type for only 1 lord

No duplicate wargear, but yes duplicate Harbinger types.

They couldn't take lightning fields, but here they're acting in their role as Vehicle Deathmarks rather than their role as charge deterrent.

changemod wrote:

 Matthew wrote:
Necrons and Chaos Space Marines are Allies of Convenience.

Ah, that's inconvenient. I thought they had fixed that with the edition change. Shame, Chaos is the faction Necrons would be least likely to ever associate with.

Uh, no. Eldar would be the last pick as Necrons and Eldar are absolute archenemies.