Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi, just getting into Infinity through Operation Icestorm, I've only played the first scenario so far and am quite enjoying it, but have a couple questions...

I didn't see anything on premeasuring- is it allowed? If so, to what degree?

I'm having a little trouble understanding basic actions. So, one trooper is about to round a corner to get line of sight to 2 enemies. Could someone walk me through the timing and options on both sides involved there, and how they'd be resolved? (This is assuming the basic ranged grunts in the first scenario.)

Thanks!

Premeasuring: I am pretty sure it is not allowed. However, I'm still know more of N2 than N3 and might be mistaken.

As for the scenario...
The options I see are...
You declare move, and you declare that you are rounding the corner, leaving cover. Then your opponent gets to react. He can either declare shoot or dodge (unless he has something else he can use). Then you declare your second skill, which could be move again or shoot. If he shoots you, you get no cover since you left it and he chooses at what point in the movement he shoots you. Then you roll the opposed rolls.
The only way to get cover vs their shots is to never leave the cover.
Did that answer your question?

Okay, so, your opponent declares actions after you've declared your path and before you declare your action?

So, if a model is going from one bit of cover to another, the opponent can react when the acting model is in the clear?

Any chance you could go through how a burst 3 vs. the opponent works? I'm still a bit fuzzy- I'll obviously be eventually getting into the big rulebook (downloaded it already), but am trying to get a handle on the basics without cracking it open unless necessary.


Another question- I've seen a lot of stuff about sectorial armies, but don't know how they work other than you get some sort of bonus based on limiting army composition... any info there would be great.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Okay, so, your opponent declares actions after you've declared your path and before you declare your action?

So, if a model is going from one bit of cover to another, the opponent can react when the acting model is in the clear?

Any chance you could go through how a burst 3 vs. the opponent works? I'm still a bit fuzzy- I'll obviously be eventually getting into the big rulebook (downloaded it already), but am trying to get a handle on the basics without cracking it open unless necessary.


Another question- I've seen a lot of stuff about sectorial armies, but don't know how they work other than you get some sort of bonus based on limiting army composition... any info there would be great.

First statement is correct. You declare move, and show what path you're gonna go. Otherwise your opponent would not know what units he can react with. Then he gets to choose his AROs, before you choose your 2nd action.

Second statement, also correct. However, there is a long skill called Cautious Movement which allows you to move between two points where he cannot see you (from behind one wall to behind one other) that does lot allow your opponent to react. But when using normal movement, he can shoot you while you're in between the walls.

As for Burst 3, you simply roll 3 dice versus your opponents reactive 1 dice. All your successes of a higher number than your opponents successes hit.

But it gets trickier when you face several enemies. Using your previous scenario, you just rounded the corner with a move and see 2 enemy units. They are unit A and B What could happen is:
Both enemies shoot at you. You can choose to try to dodge, and only roll 1 dice versus both of their shots. Let's say you roll a 7 on dodge, it's below your physics so you succeed. A gets a 4 on his shot and B get 10. They both succeed, but your dodge is better than A's hit. B's hit is better than your dodge though, and your guy has to take an armor roll.

If you shoot, you get to divide your 3 dice (Burst 3) however you want. So you can shoot one bullet at one guy, two at the other. Or three shots in one and none in the other.
Let's say you shoot 2 - 1. Smart move, because if you don't then one of them would shoot you unopposed. You shoot 2 bullets in A and one in B.
You roll vs A 11, 5. vs B, you roll 7
A rolls 9, B rolls 9
Both your 5 and 11 are successes, but because A rolled a 9, your 5 misses, and you get one hit. versus B, your 7 is a success, but his 9 is a higher success, so he hits you.

I hope those scenarios are not too confusing.


As for sectorials, basically what happens is this:
You get changed availability for all units. Most units become totally unavailable to you, aside from a small group of units. These get increased availability.
For example, in Combined Army, Noctifiers (a Shasvastii unit) have availability 1 and Shasvastii Seed-Soldiers have availability 2.
However, if you were to play Shasvastii Sectorial, the Noctifier gets availability 3 and Seed-solders get total availability. But you lose access to anything that is not a Shasvastii.

Then, you also get access to something called a Link Team. Basically, it allows you to form Link Teams with units that have the link team rule. What it means is that you can have up to 5 models in a single unit, moving them all together with 1 order (like a combined order). In active turn, only 1 person in the link can shoot, but he has +3 BS and +1 burst, as well as extra willpower and sixth sense level 2. However, in reactive turn, they all shoot together... with the +1 burst and +3 BS.
Naturally, the have to stick close together, and they always have to do the same order. There are some other restrictions and bonuses, but it's a bit much to get into for a short explanation.

Okay, thanks for the explanation, I think that mostly made sense.

What happens if both enemies decide to dodge? Can I still divide fire?

Regarding a link team, so, you get a pseudo-squad with a buff for doing so? Is it a permanent thing, or optional each time you give an order/each turn/something like that?

Also, I was thinking it'd be a good idea to get used to the game using a sectorial force, partially to limit the overwhelming number of options- is this a good plan?

And thanks for the info!

Yes. In that case each enemies dodge roll will be against the shots directed at them only. So one might successfully dodge two shots while the other is hit by the third.

Link teams are an advanced rule. The benefits for being in a link team are:
3 models - +1 burst
4 models - Sixth Sense Level 2
5 models - +3 BS

Bonuses are cumulative, so in a 5 model link you get all 3. Without going into too much detail, in the active turn, only the declared link leader gets to perform actions, the rest just move to stay within 8" of him. In the reactive turn, they all receive the bonuses, but all must delare the same action. So you can't declare 3 BS attacks and 2 dodges in ARO, it's 5 BS attacks or 5 dodges.

A big drawback is the fact that the other link members can't do much other than move in the active turn. If you declare a BS attack with your leader, they can opt to simply react to a non-leader model if they have line of sight. While your leader will get an unopposed burst at the enemy, he gets an unopposed shot at the non-leader. This can effectively bleed you of link members, which is an especially good tactic if all you're doing is shooting at a cheerleader, but his shot can potentially take out something valuable like a specialist or another big gun in the link.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Okay, thanks for the explanation, I think that mostly made sense.

What happens if both enemies decide to dodge? Can I still divide fire?

Regarding a link team, so, you get a pseudo-squad with a buff for doing so? Is it a permanent thing, or optional each time you give an order/each turn/something like that?

Also, I was thinking it'd be a good idea to get used to the game using a sectorial force, partially to limit the overwhelming number of options- is this a good plan?

And thanks for the info!

The link team is sort fo permanent. You can start the game with a link team, one model has to be the leader. Whenever you give them an order, you are free to change who the current leader is, but there has to be a leader at all times. If the leader dies, the link is broken and has to be reformed. I believe reforming links are done with Command Tokens in N3, but I'm not sure. It just to take a whole regular order before to reform the link team anyway.
You can also form new link teams on the go in the same way that you reform an old. However, there may only be 1 link team in your army at any time, so should you make a new one the old one will disband. Of course, the new link team needs to be able to be a link team, so it has to consist of linkable units.

Anyway, starting with a Sectorial is fine I think, I did so myself. It's a good way to limit yourself. I would suggest not starting using link teams however, until you are familiar with all the other rules your force will offer you. On a low-skill level, you're not really missing out on much I think. Your force is not gonna be drastically worse than your opponents for using a sectorial without a link. Actually, if your opponent is new too, having a link might just stomp too much.

Okay, sounds good. Thanks for the tips.

I found the downloadable stuff from Human Sphere regarding linked teams and which types can be linked, and have the army lists from the main rulebook (some of these don't look complete- are these just updates?), but can't tell where to find the sectorial army list options or what part of an entry describes which sectorial they're a part of...

Sorry for the questions, I'm guessing that if I read the book cover-to-cover it'll answer much of this, but I'm just trying to get a feel of model choices before diving in and trying to learn everything instead of starting with the force I most aesthetically enjoy...

edit: I was playing around with the online army builder, but was finding it pretty obtuse since it's so logo-based, but couldn't find the Reverend Healer... is this because it's some subcategory?

when I've been searching their site, I've found both teal and grey downloads sections- the grey one looks more current, but the teal one has a lot of files- are those legit, or from the previous edition so not valid?

Well, since you're new, here's the deal.
Infinity is going through an edition change right now, as you might know. However, it's not the smoothest of transactions.
The units included in the main rulebook are not all units in the game, only the ones that were included in the previous rulebook. The other units are listed in Human Sphere and Campaign Paradiso.
The rules for Link Teams are in the Human Sphere book. For the lists of Sectorials, there should be a PDF called Human Sphere Army and Weapons List, which includes sectorial AVA listings in the very end. They are not part of the current Infinity website yet, but you might be able to find their old website (it has a turqouse, light blue color to it) were the downloads still should be located.

Also, the army builder is outdated. It's for N2 and has not been updated to the current edition. They estimate that the new army builder, ARMY5, will be done late january/early february.

Blerg. Okay, just got through the Malifaux edition change (which I guess isn't 100% done) from the previous edition, guess I'm jumping in at an awkward time on this one, too.

So, sounds like Infinity is 40k-style, where there are rolling edition changes since some stuff is older and the editions' minis are fairly compatible, rather than a clean break and similar but incompatible rules sets?

Is the idea that, as updates are finished, they'll eventually be collected in some new PDF(s)? For now, should I just be focusing on what's in the core book, or are the updates minor enough that it won't be terrible to learn with slightly outdated stats on some pieces?

Thanks again!

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Blerg. Okay, just got through the Malifaux edition change (which I guess isn't 100% done) from the previous edition, guess I'm jumping in at an awkward time on this one, too.

So, sounds like Infinity is 40k-style, where there are rolling edition changes since some stuff is older and the editions' minis are fairly compatible, rather than a clean break and similar but incompatible rules sets?

Is the idea that, as updates are finished, they'll eventually be collected in some new PDF(s)? For now, should I just be focusing on what's in the core book, or are the updates minor enough that it won't be terrible to learn with slightly outdated stats on some pieces?

Thanks again!

Yes all the units missing from the Core book should be getting updated pdfs "soon" like hopefully next couple of weeks 'soon"

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
So, sounds like Infinity is 40k-style, where there are rolling edition changes since some stuff is older and the editions' minis are fairly compatible, rather than a clean break and similar but incompatible rules sets?

Not in the slightest. The new rulebook is a replacement of the old core rulebook in terms of content, and that includes the profiles for units. However, Corvus Belli always intend for the free PDFs on the website to be the living rules of the game. The PDF updates coming soon (hopefully by the end of the month) will include all if the missing units. Most are just getting points adjustments, though apparently there's some 'surprises'. There's obviously also going to be equipment changes on things like hacking devices.

As for the rules in Human Sphere like Link Teams, they will stand on their own (though hopefully eventually get an updated PDF with better translations). Paradiso will as well. The intention is for the rules from those expansions to fairly effortlessly work with N3.

And also because there is a edition change, it is a great time to join. Plus, like everyone said, free updates for the other units should be available soon.

Sounds great! The core book should keep me going plenty long enough before the new PDFs hit.

So, being into fluff, what's the story on old material/updated books as something worth getting vs. likely wholly replaced?

Well, if you like the fluff, it certainly doesn't hurt to have the old books.

N3 is also meant to be a sort of revision of what was in N2, but the content is still different in places. So if you want all of it, hunting down the N2 rulebook would be worthwhile. I can't imagine a second hand copy selling for much. Likewise, grabbing Human Sphere and Paradiso is also recommended. The books form a progressing timeline. In the core rulebook, Alephs armed forces are not known, but in Human Sphere, they're revealed. Likewise, Tohaa don't appear except for one little mention in Human Sphere until Paradiso, where they're unveiled as the prime opponents of the Combined Army with their own motivations, as well as the explosion of hostilities on the Paradiso front with the Combined Army. The next book, Acheron Falls, refers to the Acheron Blockade that's blocking the bulk of the Combined Army advance, and from the title, you can guess where that's heading...

It's not like 40k where the fluff is at a standstill forever. Corvus Belli have a plan with the fluff, and each new book will progress the storyline forwards. Originally they had an end planned with a trilogy of core books, but with the explosion of popularity I don't see them 'ending' it now. But the forward progression is still there.

Okay, cool, I'll be getting those down the line, then.

So, a couple more questions about actions after playing a second game... still using just the operation icestorm rules, so the rulebook ones might elaborate better, but for now, a couple questions on reactions:

1- one guy moves, opponents can't see so can't react, guy declares his second action is moving in to LOF with them, they can't react. Correct?

2- one guy starts in LOF of 2 guys in the open, will be moving in to cover from one guy and out of LOF of the other. Both enemies react by shooting. What we said would happen is they'll get no penalties and the guy who's moving, guy who's moving will only be able to attack the guy he'll have LOF to at the end of his move. Correct?

Wrong, and wrong.

1: If a unit was to see you move during your second half of the order, he would recieve an ARO right there and get to act with it right then. You would not be able to respond to it since you have no parts of your order left to dodge or shoot.

2: Both will get to shoot you with no penalties, and you will be able to shoot both of them. This is because of the "everything happens at the same time" rule, so you get to pick any point during your movement to shoot. So you could move out of LOF from both of them, and then with your second half of the order choose to shoot them both from the point you were standing before you moved.

Wow, okay, we played that incorrectly, but I'm glad of the results- feels more even that those are the case.

Does the answer to 2 mean that a model can lean out of cover and jump back behind it and both sides get shots from when the active piece was leaning out of cover?

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Does the answer to 2 mean that a model can lean out of cover and jump back behind it and both sides get shots from when the active piece was leaning out of cover?

Yes to this.

Oh, cool. I like the feeling of that style of fight, that definitely changes things.

Thanks for all the help, everyone!