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I proxied the rapier army and was disapointed by the 36 " range.

If i am reading IA13 correctly, i need only add more technomancers to unlock more relics

So if i take 2 sorc and have them select Malefic branch of psychic powers then they qualify

The sicaran seems to be the best to spam at its bare bones cost. It stops enemy jink saves and has rending. What relic do you guys think i should spam for maximum fire power and volume?

It says to take more than 1, infernal relic is taken in a primary detatchment it must include a technomancer.

So i would say only one technomancer is needed for any number of relics.

Taking only rapiers seemed like a good idea? I'm more impressed by the sicaran fire raptor and typhon

Sicaran despite its impressive weapons can easily be glanced to death. I'd probably take multiple fire raptors if I was going to take several Relics.

True I guess, but that ignore jink is golden against the dread wave serpent.

Could i use 2 typhon by having 2 cad?

Can i seriously have 3 sicarans by having just 1 sorc as technomancer?

How many of you guys still think hrldrakes are king and better than hellblades and fire raptors?

if i had the money i'd have fireraptor over the drake. (tho they have different roles)

and yes, you can get two typhon in two cad, and 3 sicaran with one technomancer as far as I can see.

Yes 1 sorcerer unlocks multiple relics within the limits of the FOC. Sicarans are badass I would definately take a couple.

Raptors same although reserves and higher cost means spamming them is more difficult and unreliable.

The typhon can feel pretty unfair at times but its balanced by its low(er) hull points and short range especially if it moved. I would recommend a fellblade or even a renegade baneblade instead personally.

Also note the fellblade is a great place to put vessel of tzenahk which can auto win games.

tell me more about this vessel of tzenahk
Which page?

At the moment, I am thinking abstractly with this list

CAD1
HQ-Sorc-60
troops-2x10 Cultist-100

Heavy-3xSicarans-405

LoW-Typhon-350

CAD2
HQ-Sorc-60
troops-2x10 Cultist-100

Heavy-3xSicarans-405

=1480

I still feel that its underpowered. Only 36 accelerator autocannon shots and 1 big blast short of strength D but it ignores cover.

I am starting to think CSM no matter how you cut it will lack in firepower compared to other factions.

I like the Sicaran compared to AC Havocs. 135 vs 115. 20 more points to move like vehicle ok armor value vs 5 marines. It trades 2 shots for rending and ignores jinks vs the 8 ac shots from havocs.

The typhon compared to an Imperial Knight...the typhon looks like the loser after listening to the guys in a FW vs GW thread.

If a heldrake still had 360º range of fire, I would say it is the superior choice. As it is, the Hell Blades with Helstorm Autocannons are the better choice for AA and vechicle killing.

vessel of tzenahk is a legacy of ruin for 20 pts pg 190, can go on any non daemonic vehicle/SH. It confers daemonic possession and at the start of the game roll d6.. on a 1 its death is worth an extra VP to your opponent. On a 2+ its worth an extra d3 VPs to you. Put that on a fellblade or even a fire raptor and profit.

I did glance over that tzenahk rule but did not realize how good d3 VPs was. I was looking for killing power to table the opponent. Because most of the time my opponents manage to kill my stuff in turn 3.

I guess I would swap out the Typhon for 3 Hellblades and have 5 extra points.

The 3 hellblades will give 18 more autocannon shots that can rend. Whats better, 1 very large blast at S10 and AP1 ignore cover?

I actually do have a fire raptor and I love it. I went up against 2 Flyrants with it and it took one out and left the other with one wound the turn it came on. It's a good vehicle killer too with autocannons and rending if you pay for the ammo. It does have the AP 3 bolt cannon too, but it doesn't do as well as the heldrake against 3+ armor. The best part, I think, is the autocannons, or heavy bolters, are independent firing so all the weapons can fire at different targets.

Hmm theres a bit ot a rules issue taking relics in multiple cads, .. the rules say you can take multiple relics if a Primary Detachment (which is defined as the one containing your warlord) has a technomancer or one in an allied detachment is its hq is a technomancer .

Unfortunately it doesn't say anything at all about a second CAD.

I wish forgeworld could write rules proper like. Then again 7th ed was a bit of an all change for army design.

Who do I ask about this CAD#2 limitation? I was starting to make proxy Sicarans out of card stock paper.

I think 3 is enough for any army.. why are you so set on spamming? its bad listbuidling.

Because i see other armies spam powerful stuff i dunno how to beat with my CSM army. Flyrant armies, DraigoWing, Centstar, Seerstar or just a bunch of ws, etc...

Every army has its cheese and i am trying to find CSM cheese.

Sicarans seems to solve ws spam and flyrant spam for me.

But can't touch Av14... so if you go too far in you will find more hard counters.

I guess if i gave each Sicaran a lascannon sponson...that be 240 pts of conflicting role for 12 lascannons.

 Filch wrote:
tell me more about this vessel of tzenahk
Which page?

At the moment, I am thinking abstractly with this list

CAD1
HQ-Sorc-60
troops-2x10 Cultist-100

Heavy-3xSicarans-405

LoW-Typhon-350

CAD2
HQ-Sorc-60
troops-2x10 Cultist-100

Heavy-3xSicarans-405

=1480

I still feel that its underpowered. Only 36 accelerator autocannon shots and 1 big blast short of strength D but it ignores cover.

I am starting to think CSM no matter how you cut it will lack in firepower compared to other factions.

I like the Sicaran compared to AC Havocs. 135 vs 115. 20 more points to move like vehicle ok armor value vs 5 marines. It trades 2 shots for rending and ignores jinks vs the 8 ac shots from havocs.

The typhon compared to an Imperial Knight...the typhon looks like the loser after listening to the guys in a FW vs GW thread.

Using the renegades list will really help:

CSM
Sorc

2x10 cultists

Sicaran

Sicaran

3 hades autocannon rapiers

Typhon with ceremite

Renegades:
Arch demagogue with cov of tzeentch, mutant overlord (put with hades for bs2 snapfire)

Command squad
Autocannon

2x10 mutant rabble

3 laser destroyer rapiers
Militia training

3 laser destroyer rapiers
Miltitia training

4 wyverns

1500pts



Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the typhon can kill vehicles on a 5+ due to thunderblitz bonus just by bumping into them. I would always take st10 ap1 ignores cover 7" over 2 st8 ap3 5" shots. The knight makes up for these with D weapon combat and stomps. Typhon with ceremite is immune to melta, whilst a knight gets a 4++ on one facing. I'd say they are even.

:-0 nice.

Couldn't remember if mutant overlord was 20pts or not off the top of my head.. if its more, drop the auto cannon.

Thank you Poly Ranger!

Nps :-)

Captyn_Bob wrote:
But can't touch Av14... so if you go too far in you will find more hard counters.

Strength 7 rending autoglances on a 6 and can roll D3 for the rend on a 2 or 3 its a pen.