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I played in a team tournament today. Each player had 1500 points for a total of 3000 per team. One of the teams there put 8 Imperial Knights down on the table. 4 Palidians, 2 Errents, & 2 Castigators. We had 3000 pts of Orks. It was actually closer than I thought it would be. We finished in a tie because of objectives. We actually took down 4 mints and had 1 a single point from death, and another 1/2 way down. On one assault one of their Castigators wiped out close to 50 boys (there were 2 blobs attacking).

Actually the knight team tied all 3 of their games.

Not sure of the point of my post other than we did better than I thought we would and Knights do have trouble getting objectives, so they can be defeated in the game if you have enough bodies to outlast the punishment.

sounds awesome! shame no picture, but gives me hope that my 4 knights could be considered a fair game.

Yeah I forgot to take pics, but they were using Robotech and BattleTech models as stand ins for the Knights so it was not as cool as it could have been. 4 Knight list "fair"? Not sure I would call it fair. But we did manage better than I thought. It was still not really fun playing against it. It felt too much like you were swimming up stream and just stalling for time dragging out the envitable.

It turns out that the issue is less Knights in general and more lots of Knights in small games when folks aren't expecting them. If you're equipped to fight them (which you're more likely to be in big games) they're not that obnoxious.

Knights are certainly not as bad as they appear at first. They do find it almost impossible to win objective games, and they're squishier than people think.

I think they're not very strong as their own codex. They're really meant to be taken as support for another codex, and in that they're quite strong.

Found out that Knights can be very easily defeated by Tau Riptides. My local GW had a Knights vs monsters game going and the Knights kept wiping out the Tyranids. Then one of the guys there mentioned he had brought a load of Riptides with him and why not do Knights vs Riptides. By the time we got into combat there was one Knight left with 2 HP. In combat the Knights dominated but shooting ripped us to shreds.

How did did knights do that bad against riptides ever time i see knights take on riptides the tides just get slaughtered even in a shooting match

I am surprised that you were able to get it that close with Ork v. Knights. When you say one Knight took out 50 Boyz and you still tied, that is pretty amazing.

50 Ork boys is what... 300 points? So even with what appears to be an impressive kill ratio that knight still vastly underperformed its own points value. And I'd assume at 3000 points of Orks losing 50 is a mere drop in the ocean.

I once had a game against 3 knights with 190 gretchin, 2 weirdboys, an aegis and a dakkajet. so 200 guns that couldn't hut the knights, 4 that could.

I won on objectives, yay maelstrom. even killed a knight,. the weirdboy perils'd 3 times in a row, and each time rolled a 6 and passed his test, then whupped the knight arse, then ran away after gretchin went squish, regrouped then repeated it (the knight kept charging in).

but yes, knights aren't as scary as people think, unless you run assault marines at them!

having them, i get the feeling that they are quite vulnerable but it's difficult to say that without having to spend 5 -10 minutes explaining yourself.
when i had a single knight down alongside other forces it just died on the first or second turn, it bought the rest of my army a turn of no damage but i think that's a waste of points as a plan.

can the knight get locked in combat with models other than super-heavy walkers and gargantuan creatures?

I once charged a Knight into a largish group of Tau Pathfinders in ruins.

Turns out, Knight is at Initiative 1, due to charging into cover, and the Pathfinders had haywire grenades.

Never saying Tau suck at CC ever again.

damn, the knight has 'move through cover' does that not stop the whole initiative drop thing?

SirDonlad wrote:
damn, the knight has 'move through cover' does that not stop the whole initiative drop thing?

No. It removes the range-penalty to your charge range, but not the initiative penalty.

8 knights versus an ork horde sounds like a really cool looking game.....of Epic 40k. Normal 40k, not so much.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
8 knights versus an ork horde sounds like a really cool looking game.....of Epic 40k. Normal 40k, not so much.

man, that is what i've been aiming for ever since i first got interested in the hobby!

Wonderwolf wrote:

SirDonlad wrote:
damn, the knight has 'move through cover' does that not stop the whole initiative drop thing?

No. It removes the range-penalty to your charge range, but not the initiative penalty.

You need frag grenades to negate the Initiative penalty.

Ya there's no way pathfinders did that to knight i think you guys got something wrong there

Taken one out with a single unit of wyches in CC back in the previous codex.

Similar situation. EMP/Haywire butchers vehicles, superheavy or not.

No, charging a unit with a bunch of haywire grenades will easily glance any type of vehicle to death. Specially if they get to go first.

zilka86 wrote:
Ya there's no way pathfinders did that to knight i think you guys got something wrong there

Hes saying they all had haywire grenades(2pts per model). The knight was at int 1 for charging through cover and the pathfinders lit it up.

If the rumors of skitarii with haywire ranged weapons are true, Knights better watch out.

 Byte wrote:

zilka86 wrote:
Ya there's no way pathfinders did that to knight i think you guys got something wrong there

Hes saying they all had haywire grenades(2pts per model). The knight was at int 1 for charging through cover and the pathfinders lit it up.

Even if it had been I4 it would still have taken a beating. Knights only have 4 I4 attacks when charging, plus HOW.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Byte wrote:

zilka86 wrote:
Ya there's no way pathfinders did that to knight i think you guys got something wrong there

Hes saying they all had haywire grenades(2pts per model). The knight was at int 1 for charging through cover and the pathfinders lit it up.

Even if it had been I4 it would still have taken a beating. Knights only have 4 I4 attacks when charging, plus HOW.

Depends which Knights. The OP mentioned Castigators which can wipe a unit by themselves each CC phase. Units in cover get burned out by an Acheron. Lancers are I5 on the charge and have a 5++ in CC... Adamantine Lance formation makes positioning key for shooting at paladins\errants in groups of 3...

Yeah, the castigator was the one that wiped out 45 boys, a nob, and a warboss in one cc. It had some move that killed everything in base contact plus an additional wound for every one of those. Then it got the stomp attacks. All of that went art innitiative? did not matter, it happens before the klaws which is the only thing that could do anything, but EVERYTHING was erased before that could happen. I am not sure if there is anything that can last cc with that thing? For sure not without an invul save of some kind, which Orks do not have access to.

Stomps don't happen at initiative, so that at least was wrong.

The Castigator is a different story, but at best its only killing twice as many models as there are in base contact with its melee attack. Stomps are a wild card due to model positioning.

Glad to hear you were able to handle yourself. I actually IK are fine at large point games. It's only when they're allied in in low point games that I think IK are annoying. I feel they're more like a LoW in that if you're unprepared and in low point games, they can run amok.

Knights at low points are like any other hard skew. The enemy either has the tools to deal with it, or they don't. So the Knights will either win big, or lose big.

Loborocket wrote:
I played in a team tournament today. Each player had 1500 points for a total of 3000 per team. One of the teams there put 8 Imperial Knights down on the table. 4 Palidians, 2 Errents, & 2 Castigators. We had 3000 pts of Orks. It was actually closer than I thought it would be. We finished in a tie because of objectives. We actually took down 4 mints and had 1 a single point from death, and another 1/2 way down. On one assault one of their Castigators wiped out close to 50 boys (there were 2 blobs attacking).

Actually the knight team tied all 3 of their games.

Not sure of the point of my post other than we did better than I thought we would and Knights do have trouble getting objectives, so they can be defeated in the game if you have enough bodies to outlast the punishment.

That's more cause of you playing orks rather than knights being super-ballanced. As an ork player, i can tell you that our main strengths, as you sure know, are board controle and threat overload. Both of which work vs knights.

The thing is that difficulty of dealing with a bunch of MEQ for a knight is somewhat identical to difficulty of dealing with a bunch of ork boyz. And boyz are 2.5 times cheaper = more numerous.

For example, our local CSM guyz hate playing vs IK as they have to specifically tailor the list to have chances while i (orks) don't mind knights that much with my TAC footslogging list. The only thing i don't like in our games is that they're getting pretty boring over time as knights don't have much tactical variability. It mostly revolves around me positioning the way that my footslogging pk boss, pk nob and stormboyz with a pk nob are blocking an area of the table claiming points and using other stuff as bauble wrap - all goes, a truck, grots, mek gunz. So the knight player has to position all his knights for a simultanious charge at my blob while not getting too close to me as i'd be able to charge him 1 by 1 myself thus he'd only have 6-s on stomomps to win. While he wastes time shooting at bauble wrap and maneubring around, my other stuff hunts his support or scores points.

Really, anything that is flying will give the Knights problems. Flyrants will give IK heartburn. Stormravens with the right units embarked can cause problems. If there 8 of them, that's all 3000 points, so that means no space for anti-air at all, or, any points to deal with invisible deathstars.

I'm shocked that at a tournament, Battletech/Robotech models would be allowed as stand-ins for IK. I mean, if you're gonna do that, at least go buy Chinese recasts so the models *look* like Knights and are the correct size >.<