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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/20 23:28:12
Subject: Found a long article talking about what's wrong with the US military
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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whitedragon wrote: Jihadin wrote: whitedragon wrote: Wyzilla wrote:I have a hard time that people in America don't care about troops. At the very least they're respected by everyone, everyone from WWII Veterans to to Iraq vets get saluted, honked at (if they have a bumpersticker), thanked for their service, etc.
There was a time in the not so distant past where this simply wasn't true.
60-70 time frame there Zilla
Edit
Wrong name mention
Actually I was thinking pre-2001.
I was in a couple years before 01 already
Edit
Draftee vs Volunteers mentality
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/20 23:31:19
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/21 06:04:07
Subject: Found a long article talking about what's wrong with the US military
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[DCM]
The Main Man
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LordofHats wrote:The 'everyone hated the troops in Vietnam' is also a myth. Historians have looked into it in the past and those actually looking rather than just repeating the classic lines never found any real evidence that troops from the Nam war were treated substantially differently back home than troops from WWII, Korea, Afghanistan, or Iraq. There's nothing but anecdote and Vets convinced that they suffered unduly at the hands of an uncaring public.
I'd love to see some sources for this.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/21 06:41:32
Subject: Found a long article talking about what's wrong with the US military
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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It's honestly faster to look for non-anecdotal sources that they were treated differently than to look for sources explaining that they weren't (I never remember them off the top of my head anyway XD). You won't find any of the former. It's just one of those things people keep repeating because they're convinced its true, helped along by Vet groups that more often than not are run by Nam Vets who keep pushing the line.
Take for example, the 'spat on and called baby killers' line. Vets today have both been spat on and called baby killers. They complain the US government did little to help them (something they were so passionate about they lobbied and lobbied, and the VA was born to replace the Veterans Administration). The VA, and the rest of the Government is treating vets pretty poorly today, cause it turns out changing the name of the A in VA doesn't actually change the organization when no meaningful changes were made to the organization*. Vietnam veterans feel out of place in every day America. Iraq/Afghanistan veterans feel out of place in every day America. They complain about being drafted, but soldiers were drafted for WWII as well and they were not happy about it. Over 25,000 men were imprisoned for draft dodging during WWII (I don't know if anyone has ever actually looked to see how many men tried to dodge during WWII) and there were no conscientious objectors either.
*About the only thing that changed was more direct access to Government leaders, which has done jack all to improve the VA's less than stellar record.
Everything Vietnam vets have ever pointed out as persecution still happens to vets today, and happened to Vets before them. If you want Vets who had it worse, it's Civil War vets. Those guys got the shaft.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/21 06:43:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/21 06:46:36
Subject: Found a long article talking about what's wrong with the US military
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[DCM]
The Main Man
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What about the Jane Fonda thing? That was a pretty huge slap in the face.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/21 07:03:58
Subject: Found a long article talking about what's wrong with the US military
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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Hordini wrote:What about the Jane Fonda thing? That was a pretty huge slap in the face.
Yes the infamous Jane Fonda
But how is she any worse than American nationals who join terrorist organizations? Or shoot up soldiers on home soil? Why should her actions be taken as anything more than a rotten person doing something rotten? No one holds up al-Awlaki and proclaims that citizens at home hate Iraq vets because of him.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/21 07:19:03
Subject: Found a long article talking about what's wrong with the US military
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[DCM]
The Main Man
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LordofHats wrote: Hordini wrote:What about the Jane Fonda thing? That was a pretty huge slap in the face.
Yes the infamous Jane Fonda
But how is she any worse than American nationals who join terrorist organizations? Or shoot up soldiers on home soil? Why should her actions be taken as anything more than a rotten person doing something rotten? No one holds up al-Awlaki and proclaims that citizens at home hate Iraq vets because of him.
Because she was a pretty high profile famous actress doing photo ops with the NVA. I'm not saying she's worse than American nationals joining terrorist organizations, but from a morale perspective she had way, way more influence than some nobody who decides to join a terrorist organization. Anwar Al-Awlaki was known specifically because he was a terrorist, so nobody felt betrayed when they found out he was doing terror-related things.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/21 07:29:23
Subject: Found a long article talking about what's wrong with the US military
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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I just don't see how Jane Fonda's actions amount to anything meaningful. I can certainly see how Vets can take it the wrong way, and feel really betrayed about it, but that's just their sentiment.
Beyond that, it's actually kind of like this Michael Moore thing. Go to war to defend American freedoms includes defending American douchebaggery
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/21 07:29:56
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/21 07:33:08
Subject: Found a long article talking about what's wrong with the US military
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[DCM]
The Main Man
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LordofHats wrote:I just don't see how Jane Fonda's actions amount to anything meaningful. I can certainly see how Vets can take it the wrong way, and feel really betrayed about it, but that's just their sentiment.
Beyond that, it's actually kind of like this Michael Moore thing. Go to war to defend American freedoms includes defending American douchebaggery 
Her actions most definitely had a meaningful effect on morale.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/21 07:35:43
Subject: Found a long article talking about what's wrong with the US military
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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Hordini wrote:
Yes but how is the 24/7 news cycle constantly calling the mission (and it's chances of success) into question any less so?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/21 07:43:13
Subject: Found a long article talking about what's wrong with the US military
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[DCM]
The Main Man
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LordofHats wrote: Hordini wrote:
Her actions most definitely had a meaningful effect on morale.
Yes but how is the 24/7 news cycle constantly calling the mission (and it's chances of success) into question any less so?
Maybe you should ask some Vietnam vets. Whatever your opinion of the news cycle, we don't have popular American celebrities going to do photo ops with groups like Al Qaeda and ISIS.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/01/21 07:44:29
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/21 07:48:07
Subject: Found a long article talking about what's wrong with the US military
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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Vets are the sole reason that incident continues to be so well remembered (they bring it up all the time). What they think matters to them certainly, but that doesn't correspond to how the rest of America felt about them anymore than Fonda's actions as an individual. Does every American think snipers are cowards because Michael Moore said so? Are US soldiers really dying because of gays?
Stupid people do stupid things and they've been doing it for a long time. It doesn't necessarily relate the rest of us.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/21 07:51:05
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/21 10:31:43
Subject: Found a long article talking about what's wrong with the US military
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Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought
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dusara217 wrote: Wyzilla wrote:I have a hard time that people in America don't care about troops. At the very least they're respected by everyone, everyone from WWII Veterans to to Iraq vets get saluted, honked at (if they have a bumpersticker), thanked for their service, etc.
I think it's more of a bureaucratic problem with the VA then the actual citizenry. The VA is just utterly fethed as an organization and is more inept and incompetent then the goddamned Imperium in 40k. They can't do anything right and because of their failings, veterans across the states are suffering dearly because of it.
The only way I'd say the citizens are to hold any blame is a lack of fury over the gak the VA keeps pulling, and a lack of large protests because of it.
That's the thing, though. We don't care about the troops. We respect them, aye, but we don't actually care. If you hear about a squad of Armydogs getting slaughtered by ISIS, you think "oh, how sad" and you get on with your life without actually feeling even a tinge of sadness or regret.
Also, I agree, the VA sucks. There are SO many veterans taking advantage of it and using it despite having no need whatsoever for government assistance. Take my great uncle, for example. He was a cook in the Navy, and he slashed his foot on the lid from a con on accident and received the Purple Heart for it, and now (despite never seeing combat) he is receiving disability checks the VA due to his claim of PTSD.
That's because they're strangers. I could pick up the newspaper and read about how a hundred people died horribly and were cut into very tiny pieces, but unless I knew any of the victims, I couldn't care less about what happened. It's only when gak affects myself, my family, or my friends that I care.
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“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.” |
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