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 BlackTalos wrote:
I do like how it always goes from a very VAGUE rumour of possibly a new Codex (Tons of Salt)

To what about new models?
To, hey what will be in the box? :p

I mean, if any of these rumours have any credibility, i'm more than happy to see anything Adepta Sororitas related.

Unless they start merging Codices... or removing Units...

Not buying any of it myself. GW hates armies that bear the fleur-de-lys as a symbol. They can't help themselves, its an English thing.

Probably because this is exactly what happened to Dark Eldar. GW sat on them for what, over a decade? Every once and a while a rumor would pop up "I heard they were working on DE", and people didn't believe them. Turns out, yes, they were working on DE the whole time, but it was a backburner project . But, sure, no possible way that's what's happening to Sisters .

You do remember Brits invented those armies in the first place right? I get that you probably tell yourself that convenient lie to feel better about it but the fact is that Sisters at least had a reason from the devs on why we hadn't seen updates. Bretonians haven't had one recently.

Though if the WFB rumors are true, one is coming and there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth when it arrives.

Has this been posted yet? I don't see it, so I suspect not:
http://natfka.blogspot.nl/2015/01/sisters-of-battle-models-in-production.html

Oh wait never mind, that's just a repost by Natfka of the link ClockworkZion posted two pages earlier...

 ClockworkZion wrote:
You do remember Brits invented those armies in the first place right? I get that you probably tell yourself that convenient lie to feel better about it but the fact is that Sisters at least had a reason from the devs on why we hadn't seen updates. Bretonians haven't had one recently.

Sarcasm much? Excuse me if I've grown doubtful of any big rework of two of my favorite armies that I've been playing since they started making them. I don't put much stock in the supposed reasons for delaying a sisters relaunch since it hasn't changed in forever.

Hopefully it is actually going to happen, though like every gamer wish that has come true since sixth edition dropped, careful what you wish for.

I'll be happy to see plastics if they are also able to make NEW units that are not just marine concepts given a gender change. If the supposed codex work is really just the digidex brought to print, I'll hope for tactical SoB cards and take a pass on the rest.

Someone doesn't remember that sarcasm doesn't carry well in a text only medium without some kind of tag on it.

We have had plenty of supposed reasons for their delay, sure, but we've gotten an official reason: the models didn't work with the plastic molding technology they had at the time. It's completely possible that the Sisters Masters have been done for some time and are only now able to be cast in plastic, or Goodwin reworked the Sisters to make them castable in plastic.

It's never been "GW doesn't like a French symbol from a few hundred years ago that they put on the army on their own" (besides, Bretonians are France owned England from the Middle Ages which kind of shoots that idea in the foot), despite the fan nonsense about it being so. Seriously, it's a dumb joke that got blown out of proportion to being a bunch of fanwankery.

Until we see them we won't know for sure, but what can be said for sure is that there were legitimate reasons for the lack of models. At least for Sisters. The lack of updates for the Brets is like the lack of updates for Beastmen: there isn't a really good reason for it, at least not one that the studio has given.

... I thought it was fairly obvious that drac was joking about the fleur.

 Pyeatt wrote:
This is the email I just sent to G Dubs, for humors sake. I'll let you know the reply:

We know you've been working on the codex! We hope you've been making molds for plastic kits! We demand plasti-crack! Take our money already!!

Signed,

Several dozen 40k players in my area, and countless unwashed masses on DakkaDakka

Nice lol, this will get the ball rolling if it isn't already

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Someone doesn't remember that sarcasm doesn't carry well in a text only medium without some kind of tag on it.

...

It's never been "GW doesn't like a French symbol from a few hundred years ago that they put on the army on their own" (besides, Bretonians are France owned England from the Middle Ages which kind of shoots that idea in the foot), despite the fan nonsense about it being so. Seriously, it's a dumb joke that got blown out of proportion to being a bunch of fanwankery.

...

Drac clearly knows allot more about English culture and history than you do. I thought it was quite a funny joke and I think to any English person it would be clear what the joke was...

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Until we see them we won't know for sure, but what can be said for sure is that there were legitimate reasons for the lack of models. At least for Sisters. The lack of updates for the Brets is like the lack of updates for Beastmen: there isn't a really good reason for it, at least not one that the studio has given.

I think, and including for Sisters, that "legitimate reasons for the lack of models" is not down to sculpting / rules or similar issues.

It is down to supply/demand charts, market surveys (if they do) and the likes. There is a possibility that the recent Sisters of Battle whining/waiting of the Forums and internet in general might have helped move things forward (for the best). But in the end it is the management side who probably decides, with a (very) recent trend of actually listening/implementing what the rule writers/sculptors think.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

For it to be a Sisters regulation bowl cut, there needs to be at least a full fingers gap above the eyebrows.

Here's a couple more examples:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Oh, OK, got it. The thing that makes women's hair goofy is when they cut the front too short. Especially as a bowl cut line. That's what I was reacting to: too short front hair. This is a bad look on just about everyone.

Wait, are you implying that Milla Jovovich didn't look absolutely perfect in Jeanne d'Arc? Take that back, that's heresy!

If you look at the Cosplay model, her front hair goes much longer, and it parts. Very different (and far more attractive) framing of the face.

Sorororitas shouldn't have pretty, girly hair.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Tho I wouldn't mind the occasional buzzcut sister. That would be pretty badass. Problem is, it requires a really good face sculptor to make it work.

On the other hand, now you're talking!

I was thinking this actually:



Also, as much as i am up for Barbie Adepta Sororitas, with 5 hair options, including a spare brush, hair spray and clip accessories, I think that the Bob-cut with fringe (cause bowl-cut is usually the same all-round) is a trademark Regulation.
I try tu use Sisters without helmets in my Units, because i like the hairstyle =P

Also, very very little chance of GW ever considering this.... lol

If there actually will be plastic models, I hope that Repentia will come with some nice bald heads I can use for all my helmetless Sisters. I'm really not fan of the regular bob-cut, it is way too girly (shorter bowl-cut like Jovovich had in Jeanne d'Arc would be fine though.)

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Someone doesn't remember that sarcasm doesn't carry well in a text only medium without some kind of tag on it.

You make it very easy to tell in your later sentence.

It's never been "GW doesn't like a French symbol from a few hundred years ago that they put on the army on their own" (besides, Bretonians are France owned England from the Middle Ages which kind of shoots that idea in the foot), despite the fan nonsense about it being so. Seriously, it's a dumb joke that got blown out of proportion to being a bunch of fanwankery.

Huge amount of work about something that happened for under 2 years...

 Crimson wrote:
If there actually will be plastic models, I hope that Repentia will come with some nice bald heads I can use for all my helmetless Sisters. I'm really not fan of the regular bob-cut, it is way too girly (shorter bowl-cut like Jovovich had in Jeanne d'Arc would be fine though.)

I suppose we're on to Tastes and Colours, to each their own... because i really like the idea of having them "girly". I know the fluff has them as pretty athletic, etc, which probably means really really Butch warriors... But i see them more as Onna-bugeisha and "refined" warriors with skill and grace rather than brute force of the common Imperial citizen.
To that mind, i'd say they're closer to Eldar than Space Marines. But instead of fancy Eldar technology, they still have the "Crude" power armour, bolter, flamer and melta weaponry.

A sort of Yin and Yang warrior: "manly" in their weapons and gear, but "girly" in their behaviour/physicality.

Sister Sydney has nailed it quite well (IMHO):
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/558501.page (Part 1, a bit of an intro)
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/562459.page (Part 2, more of a "story" )

 Furyou Miko wrote:
... I thought it was fairly obvious that drac was joking about the fleur.

I've seen it argued seriously a few too many times I guess.

 BlackTalos wrote:
"refined" warriors with skill and grace rather than brute force of the common Imperial citizen.

Are you describing a squad of almost naked brutally self-castigated half-mad berzerks that use huge, crude chain weapons to destroy everything they can reach before dying as refined and graceful ?
I know the repentia are a pretty specific case, but Sisters evoke more “violently in your face” than “subtle”. Sure, they are going to need to rely more on skill than space marines to achieve stuff because they lack the extra strength from gene manipulation (hence awesome units like the “fast, evasive gunslingers” seraphims). They will still use excessive brute force on every occasion they have to.

 BlackTalos wrote:
A sort of Yin and Yang warrior: "manly" in their weapons and gear, but "girly" in their behaviour/physicality.

Manly? Girly? I… Well… Really?

Do we really need to assign gender roles to little pretend people now in how masculine or feminine they and their equipment are? Because the only place to go from here to start discussing which weapon is more like which genitalia and why that makes it masculine or feminine.

And frankly I don't want to do that today.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
"refined" warriors with skill and grace rather than brute force of the common Imperial citizen.

Are you describing a squad of almost naked brutally self-castigated half-mad berzerks that use huge, crude chain weapons to destroy everything they can reach before dying as refined and graceful ?
I know the repentia are a pretty specific case, but Sisters evoke more “violently in your face” than “subtle”. Sure, they are going to need to rely more on skill than space marines to achieve stuff because they lack the extra strength from gene manipulation (hence awesome units like the “fast, evasive gunslingers” seraphims). They will still use excessive brute force on every occasion they have to.

 BlackTalos wrote:
A sort of Yin and Yang warrior: "manly" in their weapons and gear, but "girly" in their behaviour/physicality.

Manly? Girly? I… Well… Really?

The thing is, when you say "They will still use excessive brute force", i fully agree, but that's because of the Tanks, Melta, Bolters, etc that they have... Not the characteristics of the driver inside (including Power armour).

As for "manly", "girly", i was using Crimson's wording. You could say "feminine", "masculine" or even use gender-less "buff, muscular, rough" as opposed to "refined, honed, graceful".

As to Repentia, indeed, i see them (and i think fluff agrees - Have you read Faith and Fire?) more as Ballet-dancers skilfully throwing an Eviscerator at your face, than complete utter Blood-thirsty frenzy i'd see in Acro-Flagelants or Khorne Berserkers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Do we really need to assign gender roles to little pretend people now in how masculine or feminine they and their equipment are? Because the only place to go from here to start discussing which weapon is more like which genitalia and why that makes it masculine or feminine.

And frankly I don't want to do that today.

I did not mean to offend in any way... If anything, I think that "Girly" =/= weak. Why does something have to be "not Girly" in order to be strong? Again, using wording for the lack of better... How else can we talk of this? =P

Also, look at Manchu's words in my sig to relate meaning of what i'm trying to convey...

You didn't offend, I just don't see the need to throw gendering into the mix on this.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
You didn't offend, I just don't see the need to throw gendering into the mix on this.

I see what you mean... but that is relatively hard to do if you compare Space Marines and Adepta Sororitas lol
And even harder if you decide to talk about the "character" of these models (AS)

 BlackTalos wrote:
The thing is, when you say "They will still use excessive brute force", i fully agree, but that's because of the Tanks, Melta, Bolters, etc that they have... Not the characteristics of the driver inside (including Power armour).

No, that is because of who they are: violent religious extremists that embrace indiscriminate violence warmly. They did not decide to take heavy flamer because they could not get shuriken catapults. They decided to take heavy flamer because they love to see the heretics screaming in agony as their charred flesh is falling from their bodies.

 BlackTalos wrote:
As for "manly", "girly", i was using Crimson's wording. You could say "feminine", "masculine"

That is pretty much the same to me. See ClockworkZion's post.

 BlackTalos wrote:
or even use gender-less "buff, muscular, rough" as opposed to "refined, honed, graceful".

Yeah, better.
Where would you put my avatar on that scale ?

 BlackTalos wrote:
As to Repentia, indeed, i see them (and i think fluff agrees - Have you read Faith and Fire?) more as Ballet-dancers skilfully throwing an Eviscerator at your face, than complete utter Blood-thirsty frenzy i'd see in Acro-Flagelants or Khorne Berserkers.

I read Faith and Fire, I do not remember this. You must be confusing Repentia for wyches. Wyches uses knives and gladiatorial, finesse weapons to deal with their enemy. Repentia use huge, cumbersome weapons that spills fountains of blood and human debris all over the place. Wyches train for most of their waking hours to perfect their skills. Repentia just run at you with a death wish! Repentia are too obsessed with self-mortification for training, and they certainly will not focus on dodging, but on utterly destroying anyone they can reach.
I would say repentia likely have less self-preservation instinct that khornate berserkers, if that is possible. And the same appetite for destruction, even though they are more discriminate in who they wants to destroy. I can totally see the berserker caring more about being good fencers than the repentia, because the berserker wants to keep killing if possible while the repentia just wants to die fighting.

 BlackTalos wrote:
If anything, I think that "Girly" =/= weak. Why does something have to be "not Girly" in order to be strong?

That is not the problem. The problem is assigning characteristics to genders in a quite arbitrary way.

I don't know about that honestly. I feel there are ways to talk about models without going into how feminine or masculine they are.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
The thing is, when you say "They will still use excessive brute force", i fully agree, but that's because of the Tanks, Melta, Bolters, etc that they have... Not the characteristics of the driver inside (including Power armour).

No, that is because of who they are: violent religious extremists that embrace indiscriminate violence warmly. They did not decide to take heavy flamer because they could not get shuriken catapults. They decided to take heavy flamer because they love to see the heretics screaming in agony as their charred flesh is falling from their bodies.

I completely agree again. Of course they'd not even touch shuriken catapults if they could...Heretic!
But what you describe does not sound like a physical trait. Which is what i was referring to previously, with the hair and all. I suppose that is also psychological in its own way.....
But then again, they don't have to exclude each other either...

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
As for "manly", "girly", i was using Crimson's wording. You could say "feminine", "masculine"

That is pretty much the same to me. See ClockworkZion's post.

Well going by dictionary definitions... If that's bad? lol

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
or even use gender-less "buff, muscular, rough" as opposed to "refined, honed, graceful".

Yeah, better.
Where would you put my avatar on that scale ?

Wherever you would put it. I don't see it as exclusively on one side or the other... Only on the side we decide it would be (so i'd go for "refined"... I mean, hair like that doesn't curl itself )

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
As to Repentia, indeed, i see them (and i think fluff agrees - Have you read Faith and Fire?) more as Ballet-dancers skilfully throwing an Eviscerator at your face, than complete utter Blood-thirsty frenzy i'd see in Acro-Flagelants or Khorne Berserkers.

I read Faith and Fire, I do not remember this. You must be confusing Repentia for wyches. Wyches uses knives and gladiatorial, finesse weapons to deal with their enemy. Repentia use huge, cumbersome weapons that spills fountains of blood and human debris all over the place. Wyches train for most of their waking hours to perfect their skills. Repentia just run at you with a death wish! Repentia are too obsessed with self-mortification for training, and they certainly will not focus on dodging, but on utterly destroying anyone they can reach.
I would say repentia likely have less self-preservation instinct that khornate berserkers, if that is possible. And the same appetite for destruction, even though they are more discriminate in who they wants to destroy. I can totally see the berserker caring more about being good fencers than the repentia, because the berserker wants to keep killing if possible while the repentia just wants to die fighting.

I'll try and find the passage, but (SPOILER FOR BOOK)

Selfless and Brutal, sure... They do care less about training to fence than the berserkers, but they had those skills before they joined, i doubt they just loose them...

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
If anything, I think that "Girly" =/= weak. Why does something have to be "not Girly" in order to be strong?

That is not the problem. The problem is assigning characteristics to genders in a quite arbitrary way.

Not really arbitrary, but in the way we imagine the army we are collecting... Which we have because of the disagreement.
I am talking about assigning characteristics to our models who do indeed have a gender.
In no way does that carry over to perception of real life.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
The thing is, when you say "They will still use excessive brute force", i fully agree, but that's because of the Tanks, Melta, Bolters, etc that they have... Not the characteristics of the driver inside (including Power armour).

No, that is because of who they are: violent religious extremists that embrace indiscriminate violence warmly. They did not decide to take heavy flamer because they could not get shuriken catapults. They decided to take heavy flamer because they love to see the heretics screaming in agony as their charred flesh is falling from their bodies.

Actually I'm pretty sure it has more to do with tying them to being religious as fire is typically seen as a way to cleanse that which is unclean or impure (probably largely due to things like the Black Plague, as well as how possessions were "cleansed" if a person had TB).

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
The thing is, when you say "They will still use excessive brute force", i fully agree, but that's because of the Tanks, Melta, Bolters, etc that they have... Not the characteristics of the driver inside (including Power armour).

No, that is because of who they are: violent religious extremists that embrace indiscriminate violence warmly. They did not decide to take heavy flamer because they could not get shuriken catapults. They decided to take heavy flamer because they love to see the heretics screaming in agony as their charred flesh is falling from their bodies.

Actually I'm pretty sure it has more to do with tying them to being religious as fire is typically seen as a way to cleanse that which is unclean or impure (probably largely due to things like the Black Plague, as well as how possessions were "cleansed" if a person had TB).

Actually, yeah i was more on the 14th Century "burn the witch" religious piers side than such a "let's see them suffer" angle of things...

The melta being an extension of granting Peace to an enemy by complete annihilation. I mean, being De-atomised sounds purer than cleansing by flame...

 BlackTalos wrote:
But what you describe does not sound like a physical trait.

Well, what counts as a physical trait in a weapon?

 BlackTalos wrote:
Well going by dictionary definitions... If that's bad? lol

Yeah, I guess that is bad.

 BlackTalos wrote:
I'll try and find the passage, but (SPOILER FOR BOOK)

Spoiler:

When they attack the fortress, before Miryia jumps away on the Helicopter, there is quite a bit about the Repentia in combat.

Selfless and Brutal, sure... They do care less about training to fence than the berserkers, but they had those skills before they joined, i doubt they just loose them...

I do remember that there is a description of repentia fighting in it, I just do not remember how they are described.
Sisters hardly had superior fencing skills with WS 3 before becoming repentia, WS4 at max for Celestians. They focus on learning how to shoot, not how to use a weapon that they almost never field outside of repentia, and a weapon so heavy that you cannot really fence with…

 BlackTalos wrote:
Not really arbitrary, but in the way we imagine the army we are collecting...

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. I do not have a problem with assigning the Sisters to blunt force or finesse, I have a problem assigning blunt force to masculinity and finesse to femininity.

... Meltas kill by forcing the water molecules in the target's body to boil them from the inside out.

I thought melta killed by throwing very, very heated air at their target. Heat enough to have them melt.

It's been described as a microwave more often than not though.