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I don't know why you would but could you attach an HQ with jump pack to a bike command squad?

I can think of a few reasons why one would do this, but I'm not sure if you can

You're giving up a T5 for the jump pack. Not sure if it's worth it


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But I guess you get Avg toughness 5 anyways

It's 5 pts cheaper, and if you join the unit then majority toughness still puts you at T5. 5pts can be handy to pick up, the base of the model is smaller which means you fit into smaller spots and can't get forced into combat with quite as many models...

Sure, you lose T5 if you leave the unit, but things have a way of averaging out.

Another thing I looked at, bikes have the very bulky special rule. Does that mean that 3 BA bikers can run out of a drop pod?

There might be a rule problem with flat out + run.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/628445.page

Bikes can't be transported in a drop pod or in any regular transport as they're not infantry.

That is a good point, hadn't considered the different movement 'types'.

More's the pity on that last point-I would pay soooo many points for a drop podding biker army, just because it would be a cool concept. Not entirely sure how effective it would be, but I think it would have a decent change against quite a few armies.

Drop pod rules don't say Infantry. Just said 10 model capacity, or a dreadnought or a TFC with techmarine.

A dreadnought is a walker and a TFC is artillery

I think it's in the Transport Vehicles rules section. Can transport only infantry. While the pod specifically states it can also transport dreads and specific artillery piece. Same with rhinos that can't transport terminators. Even though, if you ally in a chimera, it will be able to transport them.

 koooaei wrote:
I think it's in the Transport Vehicles rules section. Can transport only infantry. While the pod specifically states it can also transport dreads and specific artillery piece. Same with rhinos that can't transport terminators. Even though, if you ally in a chimera, it will be able to transport them.

Just read it, says Infantry unless otherwise stated. Since a drop pod is the exception due to it being able to transport a walker and an artillery gun, I'm assuming a 3 bike unit can also go in a drop pod

BRB "A Transport can carry a single Infantry unit and/or any number of Independent Characters (as long as they are also Infantry), up to a total number of models equal to the vehicle’s Transport Capacity"

Once you're on a bike, you're a bike unit, and unless specifically mentioned otherwise (as it is for Dreadnoughts and TFC), I don't think there's another way around the above rule.

BRB (only Infantry models can embark upon transports( this does not include jump or jet pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise.

Unless specifically stated otherwise.

Drop pod rules state it can carry other than Infantry


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I get what you're saying but dreadnought is a walker and not Infantry. So the drop pod can carry a non Infantry model.

It's specifically stated that a pod can also carry Dreads, Wirlwind (iirc) and TFC. Not a word about bikers, beasts, MC or stuff that are clearly not Dreads, Wirlsinds, TFC or Infantry.

Drop pod doesn't say Infantry. It clearly states 10 models

Every transport says X models. Doesn't mean you can droppod Reaver Titans.

Key words are
* Infantry only.
*Unless stated otherwise
*bikes are very bulky (count and 3 models)
*drop pods can carry 10 models, dreadnought or a TFC

Rules as written is pretty clear. The BRB says unless otherwise stated, the drop pod rules say 10 models. 3 Bikes take up 9 model capacity.

How much place in a drop pod does a Reaver Titan take. It's a model, no? Or a squadron of Leman Russes.

A reaver titan doesn't have the bulky or very bulky special rule that a bike has.

Giving it capacity limitation on a transport


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Had bike unit not had very bulky I would not argue it.

Johnnytorrance wrote:

Rules as written is pretty clear. The BRB says unless otherwise stated, the drop pod rules say 10 models.

Reaver titan is 1 model. A squadron of leman russes is 1-3 models. And a reaver titan takes 3 times less space than a biker. So, they all fit in a drop pod following your logics.

If the reaver had very bulky special rule. Yes


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We're obviously not going to agree

Very bulky just make it count as 3 models for transport purposes - it doesn't allow you to be transported by itself.

The rules state you can transport infantry and nothing more unless specifically stated otherwise.

Droppods specifically state they can transport dreads, tfc and wirlwinds too. Means they can transport infantry/dreads/tfc/wirlwinds and nothing more.

This should be it's own thread

Johnnytorrance wrote:
I don't know why you would but could you attach an HQ with jump pack to a bike command squad?

If you do this, your character will be unable to use their Jump pack at all.

Unlike other unit types, where the models would just move at their own speed, Jump Packs require the entire unit to use the same form of movement. Since the bikes are unable to use Skybourne, then no one in the unit can use it. Your character will be restricted to a 6" walk move.

 grendel083 wrote:

Johnnytorrance wrote:
I don't know why you would but could you attach an HQ with jump pack to a bike command squad?

If you do this, your character will be unable to use their Jump pack at all.

Unlike other unit types, where the models would just move at their own speed, Jump Packs require the entire unit to use the same form of movement. Since the bikes are unable to use Skybourne, then no one in the unit can use it. Your character will be restricted to a 6" walk move.

Not too sure about that:

"the entire unit must always use the same form of movement."

From the paragraph that says:
"Jump units can use their jump packs once each turn to move more swiftly in either the Movement phase or the Assault phase"

So the "entire unit" must choose to Jump "in either the Movement phase or the Assault phase". But as it does not affect the bikes, this is a simple choice...

Also:"When using its jump pack (...) a model can move" is model-based, not Unit based. So the Unit can choose to "use their jump packs once each turn" as above, but only the model with the Pack is concerned.

It's not a case of choosing, as you quoted the entire unit must USE the same form of Movement. Bikes are not capable of jumping, so the entire unit cannot use this form of movement.

Johnnytorrance wrote:
Key words are
* Infantry only.
*Unless stated otherwise
*bikes are very bulky (count and 3 models)
*drop pods can carry 10 models, dreadnought or a TFC

Rules as written is pretty clear. The BRB says unless otherwise stated, the drop pod rules say 10 models. 3 Bikes take up 9 model capacity.

Drop Pods state they can carry Dreads or the TFC.
Please cite the rule allowing pods to carry bikes.

 grendel083 wrote:
It's not a case of choosing, as you quoted the entire unit must USE the same form of Movement. Bikes are not capable of jumping, so the entire unit cannot use this form of movement.

My point was that "form of movement" is the choice between "in either the Movement phase or the Assault phase".

The Unit can still make that choice, even if on the model level, Bikes don't have Skyborne.

Johnnytorrance wrote:
A reaver titan doesn't have the bulky or very bulky special rule that a bike has.

Giving it capacity limitation on a transport


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Had bike unit not had very bulky I would not argue it.

Bikes have the Very Bulky rule because there are some transports that can take them - for example a Thunderhawk I believe has explicit permission to carry bikers, also I think the Necron Nightscythe?

Okay, so i thought i'd go into the Technicalities of it because it might not be completely clear.
"Jump units therefore share two sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type."

So, models have the Skyborne rule:

"When using its jump pack (...) a model can..."
"If a Jump model uses its jump pack in the Movement phase..."
Or
"If a Jump model uses its jump pack to charge into assault..."
Or
"If not using its jump pack, a model moves as a normal model of its type"

However, with only those rules, it sounds like the choice is on a model-per-model basis. Some could Jump-move while others could Jump-charge.

"Jump units can use their jump packs once each turn to move more swiftly in either the Movement phase or the Assault phase (...) Note that the entire unit must always use the same form of movement."

This is forcing you to make a decision for the Unit ("– they cannot use their jump packs in both phases in the same turn."), to which all the models must abide.

This last part can be done if an IC on a bike has joined them, or Vice-Versa: The Unit selects when its models are allowed to use their Jump packs: "in either the Movement phase or the Assault phase".
Any model equipped with a Jump pack can make the selected move.
Half of your Jump pack models can move 10" while the other half moves 6" and walks through terrain. or because they are on Bikes.
The Unit still made the decision to "use the same form of movement": Jump packs in the Movement phase.

 Quanar wrote:

Johnnytorrance wrote:
A reaver titan doesn't have the bulky or very bulky special rule that a bike has.

Giving it capacity limitation on a transport


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Had bike unit not had very bulky I would not argue it.

Bikes have the Very Bulky rule because there are some transports that can take them - for example a Thunderhawk I believe has explicit permission to carry bikers, also I think the Necron Nightscythe?

Correct. Several models have bulky/very bulky rules for just such a purpose (as well as future-proofing the rules). It does not make them able to embark a transport just because of this rule. They are still not infantry (or otherwise stated unit types depending on the transport)