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AllSeeingSkink wrote:
But think of all the joy you will miss out on flipping through different books to figure out what he does and then rolling all those extra almost pointless dice during the game.

Well quite.

Also, I love it when people say 7th is streamlined, when Assassins are single models with up to 13 rules apiece. Many of them unique to assassins.

I'm still waiting for a model to get the USR Missile Lock and be able to use it.

Really says a lot to me when they make a USR for a single model in 6th, then managed to still get it wrong and FAQ'd it out.

Within the realm of this topic, I've been looking at the Necron release with some confusion.

There appears to be an entirely new detachment system for players to use to build up their armies. Something that has frustrated me is the level of complication that has gone into the process of building an army. Obviously, there is Unbound, but it appears to be rarely used (since it would often be utilized for cheesy builds), but all of the formations/CADs/detachments stuff that 7th has brought has really complicated a process that I don't think needed to be complicated: the army-building process.

I wanted to see what everyone else thinks about this. I personally don't understand complicating something that has so little to do with actually playing the game.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
This is perhaps something of a minor point in terms of bloat, but things like the Eversor Assassin annoy me.

One of his weapons has Fleshbane and Shred. Why? Why not just say 'hits from this weapon wound automatically'? Do we really need to faff around with dice just for that 1/36 chance that he won't wound?

But think of all the joy you will miss out on flipping through different books to figure out what he does and then rolling all those extra almost pointless dice during the game.

Don't forget the culexus who can only be hit at WS1 but also causes fear, which requires a ld test before wait for it...requiring the enemy to hit at WS1.

I agree on the Eversor, it's not a huge problem on him specifically but there are a lot of high probability and low probability rolls that we have to take, when they simply waste time. In a game with a hundred or more models on the table, there shouldn't be rolls for things that are above 95% probability or below 5% IMO. Or rolls for things like move through cover where you're almost always rolling a 5" or 6" move.

 Accolade wrote:
Within the realm of this topic, I've been looking at the Necron release with some confusion.

There appears to be an entirely new detachment system for players to use to build up their armies. Something that has frustrated me is the level of complication that has gone into the process of building an army. Obviously, there is Unbound, but it appears to be rarely used (since it would often be utilized for cheesy builds), but all of the formations/CADs/detachments stuff that 7th has brought has really complicated a process that I don't think needed to be complicated: the army-building process.

I wanted to see what everyone else thinks about this. I personally don't understand complicating something that has so little to do with actually playing the game.

I know what you mean. When I wanted to try a Formation, I had to ask on this forum what on Earth the army-building rules were. The rulebook description of detachments confused the hell out of me.

 TheSilo wrote:

Don't forget the culexus who can only be hit at WS1 but also causes fear, which requires a ld test before wait for it...requiring the enemy to hit at WS1.

 TheSilo wrote:

I agree on the Eversor, it's not a huge problem on him specifically but there are a lot of high probability and low probability rolls that we have to take, when they simply waste time. In a game with a hundred or more models on the table, there shouldn't be rolls for things that are above 95% probability or below 5% IMO. Or rolls for things like move through cover where you're almost always rolling a 5" or 6" move.

Agreed.

It's a little weird, because GW has no issue with making weapons auto-hit or auto-wound in Fantasy, or with making terrain a non-random movement penalty. Yet, in 40k, we have to have all this 2+ rerollable nonsense.

6th edition (getting a bit tubby my friend)



7th edition.... go home, get yourself together.

 Crablezworth wrote:
6th edition (getting a bit tubby my friend)



7th edition.... go home, get yourself together.

Thanks?

So is 8th the edition where the game just entirely explodes?

 Accolade wrote:
So is 8th the edition where the game just entirely explodes?

Difficult to say, the game may simply just balloon further in size.

Bloated... Yes... To many random books... Maybe... Fun? HELL YA IT IS!

 koooaei wrote:

Telmenari wrote:
I have to read every single book my opponent plans on using to make sure they're playing their army right, or even just to understand their damn lists.

Than don't. Act as if you're a tau guy in the 40k universe.

You walk around, sneeze flowers and watch butterflies. The sun is shining and there is greater good and rainbows everywhere.
Oh, someone's coming your way.
"Hello, funny men with spikes, let's be fr...AAAAHHHHH! STOP MUTILATING ME! STOP MUTILATING MEEEE!!1".

You've met this stuff for the first time - ofc you don't know what it's capable of.

And then you find out that army is BS 3 not 4 and al those special rules he quoted weren't quite right either.

Orkhead wrote:
And then you find out that army is BS 3 not 4 and al those special rules he quoted weren't quite right either.

Ah, the perfect game for the WAAC player who can BS his way along and few would know any different.
Bloat is a matter of perspective: yes the GW models can be expensive but at least I can use them in newer additions of the game, codexes, BRB and supplements I cannot = bad investment of $$ because they go out of date and cost far more than they are worth, I feel no need to be a completionist at that expense.

yes the GW models can be expensive but at least I can use them in newer additions of the game

yeah am looking at my special characters, tanks, vets and valks I can't use anymore. I don't think this can always use thing fits all armies.

Makumba wrote:

yes the GW models can be expensive but at least I can use them in newer additions of the game

yeah am looking at my special characters, tanks, vets and valks I can't use anymore. I don't think this can always use thing fits all armies.

They can typically be rolled into the "counts as" realm of models.
Some tanks you are referring to may be covered by Forgeworld rules which are allowable in 40k right?

I got a little upset a long while back when Whirlwinds were written out of the Black Templar codex, but they are now back again so all is forgiven.
My 1" base qty 3 obliterators still confuse the heck out of people, I just say they get bigger over time.
Not many models get completely shelved unless you had a Squat army.

The bloat is keeping the old and adding new so the game only gets bigger.