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Hoping this will be a simple question! I'm just unsure of the ruling.

Can focussed death Rays from Forge world sentry pylons hit FMC/ flyers?

Cheers

Ask the organiser of the event in a tournament or come up with a ruling at your FLGS. It isn't really covered.

Strictly speaking they draw lines on the table which don't target anything. If they don't target things-they dont snapshot.

This means that they could be argued to be like templates..but who knows. Flyers i dont think can be hit by them, but FMCs do not have same exclusions like the flyers hard to hit rule. So i would think by RAW they can be hit.

As I said though always best to ask whoever is running the tourney or FLGS.

Huh? The rulebook clearly states that they cannot hit them.

>> Hard to Hit

Any weapon that does not roll to hit cannot hit flyers.

I thought Forge world sentry pylons had "Anti-flyer rules" ?

EDIT: Yes, Gauss Exterminator.
Focussed Death ray is you swapping Anti-Air capabilities for Ground Pounding. Why are you now trying to also hit flyers?

And no, they may not hit flying targets.

Flyers have hard to hit yes. FMC do NOT have that line in their rules. So yes they can be hit by weapons that do not roll to hit.




Zoidbergz wrote:
Flyers have hard to hit yes. FMC do NOT have that line in their rules. So yes they can be hit by weapons that do not roll to hit.




If the firing unit has skyfire...

Pylons are weird, they dont target units they draw lines on the board. Its the same with a flamer which isn't snapshotting targeting a tank and hitting a fmc, both are hit. The line is drawn on the board and that is the 'target' and everything under it is hit, including FMCs but not flyers.

That is the raw ruling imo.

Ed - text removed

Realised it does not apply.

But these weapons are not blasts. As i said, last post on this there isn't really many rules in the pylon set..so it is hard to rule anything for them including the crazy RAW hits thing where they generate stupid hits if they clip 2-3 units. It is best if the club or tourney organiser rules on them completely so they can be played properly.

 BlackTalos wrote:
I thought Forge world sentry pylons had "Anti-flyer rules" ?

Nope. Only the gauss sentry pylon has skyfire

Yeah, i noted that, sorry. Went to pick up the book as memory did not serve...

 BlackTalos wrote:
I thought Forge world sentry pylons had "Anti-flyer rules" ?

EDIT: Yes, Gauss Exterminator.
Focussed Death ray is you swapping Anti-Air capabilities for Ground Pounding. Why are you now trying to also hit flyers?

And no, they may not hit flying targets.

If you want to go strict raw all wounds caused to any unit must be allocated to the target unit. Or we can assume that the wrote a framework that does not include causing wounds to units other than a targeted unit, therefor we have to make assumptions.

Zoidbergz wrote:
It is best if the club or tourney organiser rules on them completely so they can be played properly.

Definitely agree with that.

Yeah...nobody gets Sylons for their Anti-Air

Doomscythes have same issue and GW never bothered to FAQ it. Go ask them ;p The pylons have a special rule which overrides normal targetting procedure IMO. As we know, codex rule > rule book rule. It is very murky but that is what you get for FW 6th ed rules in 7th.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Yeah...nobody gets Sylons for their Anti-Air

It's not like Gauss Sentry Pylons can do anything else :rolleyes:

Not sure what the rules for focussed death ray is, but if it works like death ray for doom scythes it probably does not hit fliers or FMCs.

blaktoof wrote:
Not sure what the rules for focussed death ray is, but if it works like death ray for doom scythes it probably does not hit fliers or FMCs.

TO sent me the FAQ on this.


1) A Doom Scythe’s Death Ray and the Sentry Pylon’s Focused Death Ray may hit Swooping FMC’s like other Blast/Template weapons. However the ray’s initial point may only target the Swooping FMC if it is also using the Skyfire rule.

So I guess the scythe/pylon player can just put the point next to the fmcs and still hit them, but I guess if there is a situation where you might be able to stop it? Might be worth checking the raw ruling on number of hits or if it works like a doom scythe.

Zoidbergz wrote:
So I guess the scythe/pylon player can just put the point next to the fmcs and still hit them, but I guess if there is a situation where you might be able to stop it? Might be worth checking the raw ruling on number of hits or if it works like a doom scythe.

From that wording, the Organiser seems to have been under the mistaken assumption the starting point must target a unit within range.

Guess he'll be surprised when he sees someone using it in "long ranged mode" then. (Note that nothing worth shooting is currently within base range, pick a direction, roll and hope for the best)

 Wilson wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
Not sure what the rules for focussed death ray is, but if it works like death ray for doom scythes it probably does not hit fliers or FMCs.

TO sent me the FAQ on this.


1) A Doom Scythe’s Death Ray and the Sentry Pylon’s Focused Death Ray may hit Swooping FMC’s like other Blast/Template weapons. However the ray’s initial point may only target the Swooping FMC if it is also using the Skyfire rule.

strange ruling, but gotta play by the TOs rules.

seems to imply the death ray is a target attack, and you have to target an unit with it- that is not flying/swooping then if it hits the FMC you get to hit it as per a blast/template.

The problem is most people play the thing does not target an unit and you just pick a point in the ground and then draw a line the allowed distance, since that is pretty much how it reads in its rules.

HIWPI is it counts as a 'beam' attack that goes the line of the two points. Of course HIWPI doesn't matter.

Hopefully the new Necron Codex will help with this, giving a new precedent of the Night Scythe... Until then, go by the TO's FAQ

changemod wrote:

Zoidbergz wrote:
So I guess the scythe/pylon player can just put the point next to the fmcs and still hit them, but I guess if there is a situation where you might be able to stop it? Might be worth checking the raw ruling on number of hits or if it works like a doom scythe.

From that wording, the Organiser seems to have been under the mistaken assumption the starting point must target a unit within range.

Guess he'll be surprised when he sees someone using it in "long ranged mode" then. (Note that nothing worth shooting is currently within base range, pick a direction, roll and hope for the best)

Yeh I just picked that up with him. The ruling is that both death ray and focused death ray can hit FMC regardless of flight mode.

Sheeeeeeet!

But not flyers?

A bit one-sided, as RaI would have it you treat them the same.... but hey, his decision....

The "scattering blast" part for me has been disproved in another thread anyway.

 BlackTalos wrote:
But not flyers?

A bit one-sided, as RaI would have it you treat them the same.... but hey, his decision....

The "scattering blast" part for me has been disproved in another thread anyway.

I assume it's because 'Hard To Hit' on flyers specifically forbid anything that doesn't roll to hit (blast, templates etc.) to ever hit a flyer, this restriction is not present on FMC though, but it says that everything that targets the FMC must be resolved as snap shots, unless it has skyfire. The doom scythe is a flyer, so it can elect to shoot with skyfire and thus able to target the FMC, because the 'Hard to Hit' rule on FMC does not prevent blast/templates/etc. from hitting it, so it must snap shoot against ground targets, however, the BRB says: "In addition, any shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be 'fired' as a Snap Shot." and therefore it cannot shoot the beam against ground targets, if the beam starts by the FMC (with skyfire) and crosses a unit on the ground.
So I wouldn't even call it a weird ruling, I would call it ruling by RAW

I think the TO is in a tight spot, as I said before its not really covered in any rules. Silly Forgeworld units! I really hope GW rewrite the death ray rules they are some of the worst written in the game.