Belgium conducts Anti-Terror raids, 2 suspects dead.

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**djones520**

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/01/15/belgium-counterterrorism-raids/

More counterterrorism operations were reportedly underway in Belgium late Thursday, hours after police killed at least two in raids aimed at jihadists returning from Syria who were planning to launch a "Belgian Charlie Hebdo" attack, authorities said.

Belgian news site L'Avenir, as well as Le Soir and France24, reported that the government prosecutor's office said a dozen operations have been launched against suspects across Belgium, in Verviers, Brussels and Hal-Vilvoorde. Some of those targeted in the raids are known to have returned recently from Syria.

The Belgian news site reported that, based on phone intercepts in the homes and cars of the three individuals involved in a shootout in Verviers, authorities believed the three were in the process of carrying out imminent attacks inside Belgium. A shootout between the three and police has left two of the suspected terrorists dead and another wounded.

The French daily Le Soir is reporting that the investigations were launched against the Verviers suspects at least two weeks ago after they returned from Syria where they were thought to be involved in the fighting there.

The raids earlier Thursday included one on an apartment above a bakery in the eastern city of Verviers, authorities said. They said no officers were injured and that the suspects opened fire on them as the swooped in. Authorities said the terror cell had ties to ISIS and was planning a major attack.

More at link.

**djones520**

30 folks arrested yesterday between France, Belgium, and Germany.

**PhantomViper**

These "homegrown" terrorists aren't exactly the brightest apples in the tree. They openly talk about their activities on social media, travel to and from terrorist countries without disguising their origin, destination or identity, etc.

As a result of this most, if not even all of them, are known to the different intelligence agencies all over Europe.

But before the events of last week any move against them before they committed any crime would be essentially jumped on by the usual PC left wing with the resulting cries of Islamophobia and Institutional Racism. And Allah helped the government if any of the worshippers of the religion of peace actually got killed in the process like those two were in Belgium yesterday.

But after last week's events in France? Not any more, now its open season on these guys. I expect allot more people like these getting arrested in the next few days as all of these known types are rounded up and put in jail where they belong.

**Jihadin**

Trouble is your putting Extremists in jail with general population. They're not going to be breathing after awhile
Better come up with a version of GITMO

**djones520**

It's a shame it took so many dead to get them moving. At least they are moving on it though.

**PhantomViper**

Jihadin wrote:
Trouble is your putting Extremists in jail with general population. They're not going to be breathing after awhile
Better come up with a version of GITMO

Hmm, that's not a bad idea.

The US is leaving their base in Lajes later this year, maybe we could re-purpose the facilities.

LITMO...
LJES...

Need to find a decent acronym for it first though.

**Frazzled**

Jihadin wrote:
Trouble is your putting Extremists in jail with general population. They're not going to be breathing after awhile

And?

**Ashiraya**

Then what's the point of jail?

**Jihadin**

Frazzled wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
Trouble is your putting Extremists in jail with general population. They're not going to be breathing after awhile

And?

Tax dollars

Besides we're closing GITMO down. Figure they be captured by the EU and let them go through the BS

**Sigvatr**

The more of 'em die, the better.

**Jihadin**

Sigvatr wrote:
The more of 'em die, the better.

Actually want to take some alive and take down the network.
Who
What
When
Where
and
How

They want intel then just bodies

**Sigvatr**

I didn't say when they die

Get the info, then kill them. Everyone's happy.

**Jihadin**

Are you for Enhance Interrogation then?

**Sigvatr**

Depends. Torture can work, but it doesn't work on a lot of people. Torture is highly likely to work vs. e.g. Western Islamic Fanatics. They solely choose to follow their leaders because of their poor social environment and the promises of a better live. They aren't deeply conviced of what they chose to do, such as actual Islamic fanatics who were raised to be ready to die. Against the latter, torture will likely not yield to anything valuable.

Against the former, torture can be an effective tool as breaking such people has good chances of success.

Overall, however, it's not that effective. They don't have much info to begin with as they are bottom feeders. 70-80% of all suicide bombers don't come from the Middle East, but are foreigners.

**Dreadclaw69**

djones520 wrote:
It's a shame it took so many dead to get them moving. At least they are moving on it though.

If they were able to pounce so quickly they likely had these groups under surveillance, and either had intelligence that something was about to happen, or the Paris attack prompted action to prevent wide spread attacks.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/belgium-verviers-raid-terrorists-mere-hours-away-attack-when-killed-1483634

The two suspected Islamic militants killed in a shoot-out with police in Belgium's Verviers town were just hours away from a terror attack targeting police installations in the town.

"They were on the verge of committing important terror attacks," said federal magistrate Eric Van der Sypt in Brussels.

Belgian authorities were just in time to thwart the attack when they killed two suspects in the shoot-out and arrested a third in massive anti-terror raids that began early in the evening and stretched into the night.

Security forces were acting on information that a terrorist cell comprising of people who recently returned from the Syrian battlefield were plotting an imminent strike.

They will continue to look for more clues in a weeks-long investigation that started well before the Paris deaths.

Like the Hebdo terrorists, the Verviers suspects too "were extremely well-armed men" equipped with automatic weapons.

Around 300 Belgian residents have joined ranks with extremist Islamic formations in Syria. It is unclear how many have returned.

**Desubot**

Jihadin wrote:
Are you for Enhance Interrogation then?

Creative problem solving

Yeah its really silly with all the crazy things people will post on FB.

**Grey Templar**

Jihadin wrote:
Are you for Enhance Interrogation then?

"Enhanced" implies that they're complicated or have some sophistication.

My method would give two simple choices. Tell me what you know, and I'll make your demise swift and painless(and allow you to be buried with dignity). Otherwise, its a slow and painful death, followed by feeding your corpse to rabid hyenas.

**Experiment 626**

Sigvatr wrote:
Depends. Torture can work, but it doesn't work on a lot of people. Torture is highly likely to work vs. e.g. Western Islamic Fanatics. They solely choose to follow their leaders because of their poor social environment and the promises of a better live. They aren't deeply conviced of what they chose to do, such as actual Islamic fanatics who were raised to be ready to die. Against the latter, torture will likely not yield to anything valuable.

Against the former, torture can be an effective tool as breaking such people has good chances of success.

Overall, however, it's not that effective. They don't have much info to begin with as they are bottom feeders. 70-80% of all suicide bombers don't come from the Middle East, but are foreigners.

The main problem with any intel gained from torture however, is that more often than not it's highly unreliable, as eventually, a tortured suspect will simply tell you exactly what you want to hear in order to make the pain stop.
The ones we'd likely have the best possible chance of viable intel from are probably those trained to resist torture, and likely would take too long to break, especially if/when authorities believe an attack is imminent.

Hence why we shouldn't rely on physical forms of torture, but rather non-invasive methods such as sensory depravation, if/when we choose to go the torture route.

Of course, once authorities gain all the useful information they can from these useless gakkers, well, the best way to 'deal' with Islamists is to humiliate/kill them where it hurts the most...
Death itself is desired because it makes them martyrs.
Physical castration with a dull spoon and then letting them rot of old age in some forgotten deep, dark hole on the other hand?! There's nothing more terrifying for men who've been raised/converted into believing in a patriarchal system that places having a penis as being a divine right to do whatever the hell you want!
(and it would also be a nice sense of justice since their Sharia Law treats women as worse than the lowest form of scum, while promoting extreme rape culture...)