5 most underpriced things in 40k in your opinion. Not including serpents.

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**Poly Ranger**

Not the normal ones. There are 5 types. Cant remember them all off my head. Kannons I know ^. Lobbas are st5 blast. Cant remember its name but one is a st9 ap2 blast gets hot I think, but that costs extra. Then there are a couple with random strength. I'll have to check my dex when I get home.

Personally I think normal rapiers are well costed. If we compare them to IF lascannon devs. They have 1 less shot but get the same amount of hits on average. Are ap1 rather than ap2. Ordnance is ever so slightly better than tank hunter when rolling pens (since you roll them at the same time, you may get a glance and pen, whereas with IF devs you may be tempted to reroll a glance and get nothing, so there is no gamble as you know the *second* reoll with ordnance). And they are on a unit with 12 t7 3+ wounds in comparison to 5 t4 3+ wounds. For 15pts more. And that's with having to take IF CT (because lets be honest - those are the only las devs worth their points).

**CrownAxe**

Three TL'ed Bs3 shots is only 2.25 hits on average. After armor pen even with ordnance thats only about 2 damage results before saves. In 7ed you reliable destroy vehicles with HP damage so 2 HPs isn't even a dead vehicle most of the time. Sure they have ap1 but thats only a 5+ to kill most vehicles because of the nerfed damage chart isn't reliable. Then there are the other problems such as being immobile making difficult to shoot at vehicles and not give them a cover save making the rapiers' damage output even worse.

You are getting what you pay for. A cheap unit with cheap results.

**Poly Ranger**

I was talking about the normal ones in that instance.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also bear in mind dev squads are pretty immobile.

I would say, with a good chance of penning on 2.7hits, a 5+ explodes is excellent. Still good on 2.25 hits for the renegade version.
And if you don't explode, you've immobilised, weapon destroyed or at worse, stunned. Remember quite a few tanks are useless after an immobilised or weapon destroyed result.
And everything firing from the backline has the problem of cover saves.

**Valkyrie**

Poly Ranger wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:
Surprised no-one's mentioned Severin Loth: 175 points for a ML3 Psyker who can choose his powers, meaning guaranteed Invisibility, etc. Sure, he's only restricted to a single Psychic Discipline but means you're getting an extra power from Psychic Focus. Not very survivable but can spend a Warp Charge to automatically give himself a 2++ Invulnerable save for the turn!

One of my favourite characters! Definitely too cheap. Can become a close combat monster with biomany, or a buffing king with telepathy.

I think, from that list of characters, Issodon is even more broken.

I don't get why people are saying Issodon's so powerful, he's got an ok statline, a Boltgun that can fire 4 shots, but is still just a Boltgun, and no Invuln save. Sure, he can cause D6+3 wounds/D3 Haywire hits after deployment, but if he's got something else going for him then I'm certainly not seeing it.

**Furyou Miko**

Valkyrie wrote:
OIIIIIIO wrote:
Gauss ... pisses me off to no end that the Necrons troops choices can wreck ANY vehicle in the game ... no upgrades required, just roll your dice.

They've been able to do that since at least 4th Edition, except back then it was even easier since you could wreck a vehicle on a single glance...

Since second edition, in fact, although back then it was just that they rolled 4 + d6 + d3 + d6 armour penetration.

Underpriced things...

Ecclesiarchy Priests. 25 points for rerolls to hit and wound for the whole unit and a 4++ save? Then add rerolls to save as well for merely another 25 points? and they can carry plasma guns?
Mindshackle Scarabs. 15 points to negate enemy characters in CC? Trololol.
Punisher Vultures. 150 points for an AV 12/12/10 vector dancer flier with a twin-linked BS4 punisher cannon. BS3 TL vs Fliers... wow, such a problem. Oh, and a Heavy Bolter just for lulz.
Flakk Missile Launchers. No, that's a joke. >>
Bikes. Just... in general. Relentless with TL guns and ObSec as often as not... yeah, just.. bikes.

**Tannhauser42**

Valkyrie wrote:
Surprised no-one's mentioned Severin Loth: 175 points for a ML3 Psyker who can choose his powers, meaning guaranteed Invisibility, etc. Sure, he's only restricted to a single Psychic Discipline but means you're getting an extra power from Psychic Focus. Not very survivable but can spend a Warp Charge to automatically give himself a 2++ Invulnerable save for the turn!

Bear in mind that is only because of the changes from 6th to 7th edition, he wasn't as powerful in 6th as he is now in 7th. And, arguably, you can't even use his armor's ability at all now, as you have to spend a warp charge in the movement phase to activate it, but you only generate warp charge in the psychic phase (easily fixed by house-ruling, though, but you never know what a TO might decide).

In truth, many things we might consider underpriced now are due to changes created by 7th Edition (or 6th before it, the Necron Nightscythe being a prime example of something that became really good with an edition change). So, a better metric may be to consider what has always been underpriced in its current Codex regardless of which edition you're playing in. I would agree that Mindshackle Scarabs could use a slight increase in points. The Wave Serpent could use a points increase, as well.

**Poly Ranger**

Valkyrie wrote:
Poly Ranger wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:
Surprised no-one's mentioned Severin Loth: 175 points for a ML3 Psyker who can choose his powers, meaning guaranteed Invisibility, etc. Sure, he's only restricted to a single Psychic Discipline but means you're getting an extra power from Psychic Focus. Not very survivable but can spend a Warp Charge to automatically give himself a 2++ Invulnerable save for the turn!

One of my favourite characters! Definitely too cheap. Can become a close combat monster with biomany, or a buffing king with telepathy.

I think, from that list of characters, Issodon is even more broken.

I don't get why people are saying Issodon's so powerful, he's got an ok statline, a Boltgun that can fire 4 shots, but is still just a Boltgun, and no Invuln save. Sure, he can cause D6+3 wounds/D3 Haywire hits after deployment, but if he's got something else going for him then I'm certainly not seeing it.

Its the things you haven't mentioned which make him powerful.
His warlord trait allows him to infiltrate 3 non-vehicle units (including their dedicated transports), which is by itself worth his points. When you also consider he has infiltrate himself, scout and turn1 stealth, he can infiltrate whatever 3 units you like, scout another one of those units another 6" (or 12" if in a transport), and grant it +1 to its cover save. His infiltrate, isolate, destroy rule is added gravy which can do serious damage on top of that. Then when you consider his wargear, it means you are paying about 30-40pts to seriously damage a vehicle/MC, infiltrate 3 units (or 6 with DTs), infiltrate himself, grant scout to a unit and grant T1 stealth to a unit.

**vipoid**

Furyou Miko wrote:
Ecclesiarchy Priests. 25 points for rerolls to hit and wound for the whole unit and a 4++ save? Then add rerolls to save as well for merely another 25 points? and they can carry plasma guns?

I agree that Priests are underpriced, but I feel I should make a few points:

- Both IG and SoB overpay badly for their melee weapons, so that balances out a bit in some squads.

- Rerolling to-wound rolls or saves are both dependant on passing a Ld test on Ld7. So, it's not exactly reliable.

- They can take plasmaguns... but would you want to? I mean you're talking here about how amazing their bonuses are... and you'd risk all that to fire a plasmagun on a BS3 model?

**Furyou Miko**

Who cares about fancy melee weapons when you're rolling that many dice? Not to mention that the Sisters ones, at least, can get an autopass relic and can be attached to Marine squads.

Finally, the plasma gun lets you field them in a different way - use them as a Fearless buffer and extra gun for a special weapon squad for example. Picture this squad.

Dominions (4x melta, 1x combi-melta) in a rhino. Accompanied by 5x priests (plasma). Come on from Outflank. At maximum melta range, you're looking at 5x BS4 S8 AP1 + 10xBS3 S7AP2, all of which ignores cover and can be TL'd by an ally fairly easily.

**vipoid**

Furyou Miko wrote:
Who cares about fancy melee weapons when you're rolling that many dice?

That wasn't really my point.

Furyou Miko wrote:
Not to mention that the Sisters ones, at least, can get an autopass relic and can be attached to Marine squads.

With regard to the latter point, I find that more a problem with the ally rules.

Furyou Miko wrote:

Finally, the plasma gun lets you field them in a different way - use them as a Fearless buffer and extra gun for a special weapon squad for example. Picture this squad.

Dominions (4x melta, 1x combi-melta) in a rhino. Accompanied by 5x priests (plasma). Come on from Outflank. At maximum melta range, you're looking at 5x BS4 S8 AP1 + 10xBS3 S7AP2, all of which ignores cover and can be TL'd by an ally fairly easily.

That is indeed pretty nasty. However, it also costs 355+ points, is very fragile as soon as it disembarks - which it will have to in order to fire - and uses all the army's priests (so, you can't have more than one of said squad and nor can you use the Priests elsewhere - meaning most of their bonuses are wasted giving the Dominions Hatred and Fearless 5 times).

Don't get me wrong though - I agree that Priests are underpriced. I just thought you were fixating on some rather odd aspects.

Out of interest, how many points do you think they should cost?

**Mr.bacon**

Just wondering but can imperial guard priests join units? I was going to attach him to a crusader squad.

**Desubot**

Wyvners are strong.

I want to say Eldar vehicle weapon wargear. IIRC most of them are just 5 across the board so why wouldn't you sit there and take twinlinked scatter lasers.

Oh and severely under priced would be the ion accelerator.

**Furyou Miko**

vipoid wrote:That is indeed pretty nasty. However, it also costs 355+ points, is very fragile as soon as it disembarks - which it will have to in order to fire - and uses all the army's priests (so, you can't have more than one of said squad and nor can you use the Priests elsewhere - meaning most of their bonuses are wasted giving the Dominions Hatred and Fearless 5 times).

Don't get me wrong though - I agree that Priests are underpriced. I just thought you were fixating on some rather odd aspects.

Out of interest, how many points do you think they should cost?

Priests? Probably 35. You're probably right about the plasma gun thing. ^^;

Mr.bacon wrote:Just wondering but can imperial guard priests join units? I was going to attach him to a crusader squad.

As far as I know? But they don't get the same War Hymns rules, I think?

**Desubot**

Priests from IG are IC

They get the same warhymes iirc.

**Jimsolo**

Night Shields on a Reaper.
Torment Launchers on a Reaper.
Singing Spear.
Grotesques.
Drop Pods.

**vipoid**

Furyou Miko wrote:

Priests? Probably 35. You're probably right about the plasma gun thing. ^^;

35 sounds fair.

Though, I'd like it if IG and Sisters paid less for Power Weapons/Fists.

Furyou Miko wrote:

As far as I know? But they don't get the same War Hymns rules, I think?

I think their Hymns are the same, but they can't get anything to make them more reliable (I think SoB do?).

**Furyou Miko**

SoB can take the Litanies of Faith relic that lets them autopass War Hymn and Act of Faith checks.

**TheSilo**

I don't know enough about all the armies to come up with the 5 most underpriced things, but the wyvern is definitely #1 in the IG codex.

**Jazzhands**

Formosa wrote:
I'll get flak for it, but my ravenwing command squads and black kknights seem slightly too cheap

Perhaps in any other codex but in ours I think we should just be glad we have something! That said I do see your point and am not one of those DA players who just complains about his codex. I still find it very playable.

**westiebestie**

I think the Wyvern is the winner.

Runners up are the Lucky Stick (Ork relic), the new Tyranid drop pod (5 template shots, guidance and 5 wounds T6 for 75pts!?!?) and the Eldar Wraithknight. That thing is insane, takes double it's points cost to handle it. Oh, and the Drop Pod of course.

**SGTPozy**

The Tyrannid drop pod is 100 points if you give it blast guns

**Doctadeth**

#1 for me is the wyvern, so cheap to have a good weapon.
#2. Ravenwing Knights. Twin linked plasmas guns, rad grenade launchers with -1T and RENDING CCW.
#3 Ezekiel. I have taken out Abaddon AND Kharne with him. If you know how to use him properly he is very much undercosted. Being a T3 psycher as well,...Armies can fall before him if you use him to max effectiveness.

**Xenomancers**

Riptide. Anything with psuedo rending.

**vipoid**

Xenomancers wrote:
Anything with psuedo rending.

Does that include Sniper Rifles?

**Furyou Miko**

vipoid wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
Anything with psuedo rending.

Does that include Sniper Rifles?

Clearly not, as they have actual rending.

**vipoid**

Furyou Miko wrote:
Clearly not, as they have actual rending.

They HAD Rending, back in 6th.

Now they're just AP2 on 6s and S4 against vehicles.

**SGTPozy**

No 1. Dreadknight
No 2. Wyvern
No 3. IA on the Riptide (the Riptide is fine; just not that one weapon)

**AlexRae**

90% of the replies in this thread are hilarious impotent whinging.

**vipoid**

AlexRae wrote:
90% of the replies in this thread are hilarious impotent whinging.

And now we have one reply which is whining about legitimate replies.

**SGTPozy**

AlexRae wrote:
90% of the replies in this thread are hilarious impotent whinging.

How are they whinging?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

vipoid wrote:
AlexRae wrote:
90% of the replies in this thread are hilarious impotent whinging.

And now we have one reply which is whining about legitimate replies.

Stop your whining!