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I could see a renegade marine chapter not having to much trouble from regular imperial authorities as the average govenor that suddenlly found a crusade fleet turn up in thier system wouldnt know if there loyal or not as this info would be restricted by the inquistion so the marines come ask for a resupply of materials and potential neophytes and nobody going to deny them unless they where actively attacking worlds they could operate with inpunity especially if the helped worlds that had problems kind of like a space marine a-team

 dekinrie wrote:
I could see a renegade marine chapter not having to much trouble from regular imperial authorities as the average govenor that suddenlly found a crusade fleet turn up in thier system wouldnt know if there loyal or not as this info would be restricted by the inquistion so the marines come ask for a resupply of materials and potential neophytes and nobody going to deny them unless they where actively attacking worlds they could operate with inpunity especially if the helped worlds that had problems kind of like a space marine a-team

I'd imagine as the marines would still look normal unlike chaos

 Great White wrote:

 dekinrie wrote:
I could see a renegade marine chapter not having to much trouble from regular imperial authorities as the average govenor that suddenlly found a crusade fleet turn up in thier system wouldnt know if there loyal or not as this info would be restricted by the inquistion so the marines come ask for a resupply of materials and potential neophytes and nobody going to deny them unless they where actively attacking worlds they could operate with inpunity especially if the helped worlds that had problems kind of like a space marine a-team

I'd imagine as the marines would still look normal unlike chaos

Unless they wore the very specific-looking Chaos-helmets or had very specific mutations, they would look normal or as close to normal for people shot in their head at a regular basis.

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 Great White wrote:

 dekinrie wrote:
I could see a renegade marine chapter not having to much trouble from regular imperial authorities as the average govenor that suddenlly found a crusade fleet turn up in thier system wouldnt know if there loyal or not as this info would be restricted by the inquistion so the marines come ask for a resupply of materials and potential neophytes and nobody going to deny them unless they where actively attacking worlds they could operate with inpunity especially if the helped worlds that had problems kind of like a space marine a-team

I'd imagine as the marines would still look normal unlike chaos

Unless they wore the very specific-looking Chaos-helmets or had very specific mutations, they would look normal or as close to normal for people shot in their head at a regular basis.

Most people wouldn't assume that a marine with a spikey helmet or more pointy armour trim means that marine is chaos.

Very few people are even vaguely aware of what space marines are. Even few know the smallest bit about what chaos is.

What people do know to hate though is heretics, mutants and witches. I suggest as long as any chaos or renegade marine was able to cover up those three things they'd easily pass as a space marine (super human warrior of the Emperor).

Except a renegade chapter isnt just going to be let go by the imperium... they will propably receive a "bounty" on their head, the inquisition will make it known in the area that xyz are not to be collaborated with, collaboration is punishable by death etc etc.
At least the governors/higher ups would likely know what space marines are. And if you are an uneducated worker and you see an armored giant, word will spread like wildfire, because it is abnormal and abnormal is bad... usually. That way reaching either higher up places or inquisition ears.

They'd probably stay in a mobile battle fleet for that reason, but yea, supplies would be the hardest part. I don't think a renegade chapter could survive well unless they became pirates or ended up in a super backwater world with their serfs and set up their own colony.

one thing to remember though is Space Marine Chapters have near complete autonomy. generally so long as they're not chaos worshipping, send in their gene seed tithe (which is just SMART as it ensures you have backups) and don't go blatently attacking the IoM, you're good. a chapter almost has to TRY, to go renegade.

Then what exactly do you define as renegade? the imperium has rules. If you dont break them, you are not renegade. If you break them, it will be obvious because you are working against the IoM whether directly or indirectly. Strange battle practices are kind of tolerated as long as achieve what they where send after.

Or is it just the new trend to claim your chapter to be rebell, "but in truth they still are the nice guys". If they are not declared Excommunicate Traitoris they are no rebell. Still calling rebell is pretentious. And beeing declared Excommunicate Traitoris has serious consequences... The IoM has a 0 Tolerance policy for this. And if an entire chapter just goes renegade, chances are great that other chapters will be sent to hunt them, no matter if they are "still the good guyz".

Autonomous can hardly be the case. You don't just need weapons and ammo. You also need replacements for losses, their ships need to see a dock if they are damaged, they need food and water (not just the marines but also all the serfs). No marines are not truly autonomous, only for a period of time that exceeds conventional troops. Marines dont have Forgeworlds on their ships... And their homeworld will either be destroyed or taken over by another chapter.

 Shadowclaimer wrote:
They'd probably stay in a mobile battle fleet for that reason, but yea, supplies would be the hardest part. I don't think a renegade chapter could survive well unless they became pirates or ended up in a super backwater world with their serfs and set up their own colony.

Or if the joined another race as they could supply them with supplies

Yes food and so on, but no vehicles, armor or weapons... and no recruits
unless they start all fighting with alien stuff

nareik wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 Great White wrote:

 dekinrie wrote:
I could see a renegade marine chapter not having to much trouble from regular imperial authorities as the average govenor that suddenlly found a crusade fleet turn up in thier system wouldnt know if there loyal or not as this info would be restricted by the inquistion so the marines come ask for a resupply of materials and potential neophytes and nobody going to deny them unless they where actively attacking worlds they could operate with inpunity especially if the helped worlds that had problems kind of like a space marine a-team

I'd imagine as the marines would still look normal unlike chaos

Unless they wore the very specific-looking Chaos-helmets or had very specific mutations, they would look normal or as close to normal for people shot in their head at a regular basis.

Most people wouldn't assume that a marine with a spikey helmet or more pointy armour trim means that marine is chaos.

Very few people are even vaguely aware of what space marines are. Even few know the smallest bit about what chaos is.

What people do know to hate though is heretics, mutants and witches. I suggest as long as any chaos or renegade marine was able to cover up those three things they'd easily pass as a space marine (super human warrior of the Emperor).

Most people ain't even aware aliens exist. it's left for the higher-ups to decide anything, and it's has been that way at least since before the HH, so it won't change any time soon. I'm not sure what you are poking at but the higher-ups tends to have education about whos what and such. Whether they follow it is another matter whatsoever.

 Beaviz81 wrote:

nareik wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 Great White wrote:

 dekinrie wrote:
I could see a renegade marine chapter not having to much trouble from regular imperial authorities as the average govenor that suddenlly found a crusade fleet turn up in thier system wouldnt know if there loyal or not as this info would be restricted by the inquistion so the marines come ask for a resupply of materials and potential neophytes and nobody going to deny them unless they where actively attacking worlds they could operate with inpunity especially if the helped worlds that had problems kind of like a space marine a-team

I'd imagine as the marines would still look normal unlike chaos

Unless they wore the very specific-looking Chaos-helmets or had very specific mutations, they would look normal or as close to normal for people shot in their head at a regular basis.

Most people wouldn't assume that a marine with a spikey helmet or more pointy armour trim means that marine is chaos.

Very few people are even vaguely aware of what space marines are. Even few know the smallest bit about what chaos is.

What people do know to hate though is heretics, mutants and witches. I suggest as long as any chaos or renegade marine was able to cover up those three things they'd easily pass as a space marine (super human warrior of the Emperor).

Most people ain't even aware aliens exist. it's left for the higher-ups to decide anything, and it's has been that way at least since before the HH, so it won't change any time soon. I'm not sure what you are poking at but the higher-ups tends to have education about whos what and such. Whether they follow it is another matter whatsoever.

most people being aware that aliens exist is inconsistant with the "xenos hating" aspect of the Imperial creed.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

nareik wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 Great White wrote:

 dekinrie wrote:
I could see a renegade marine chapter not having to much trouble from regular imperial authorities as the average govenor that suddenlly found a crusade fleet turn up in thier system wouldnt know if there loyal or not as this info would be restricted by the inquistion so the marines come ask for a resupply of materials and potential neophytes and nobody going to deny them unless they where actively attacking worlds they could operate with inpunity especially if the helped worlds that had problems kind of like a space marine a-team

I'd imagine as the marines would still look normal unlike chaos

Unless they wore the very specific-looking Chaos-helmets or had very specific mutations, they would look normal or as close to normal for people shot in their head at a regular basis.

Most people wouldn't assume that a marine with a spikey helmet or more pointy armour trim means that marine is chaos.

Very few people are even vaguely aware of what space marines are. Even few know the smallest bit about what chaos is.

What people do know to hate though is heretics, mutants and witches. I suggest as long as any chaos or renegade marine was able to cover up those three things they'd easily pass as a space marine (super human warrior of the Emperor).

Most people ain't even aware aliens exist. it's left for the higher-ups to decide anything, and it's has been that way at least since before the HH, so it won't change any time soon. I'm not sure what you are poking at but the higher-ups tends to have education about whos what and such. Whether they follow it is another matter whatsoever.

most people being aware that aliens exist is inconsistant with the "xenos hating" aspect of the Imperial creed.

Thats more into hating anything that doesn't look home in this world. I mean. Most people in the worlds would be like Veteran Sergeant. Or ISIL. And thats not a compliment.

well its not that hard to teach people to fear/hate everything that does not look like a human (mutant, xenos, ...) Particulary if all you and many generations before you grew up with is the imperial ideology.

 Keep wrote:
Then what exactly do you define as renegade? the imperium has rules. If you dont break them, you are not renegade. If you break them, it will be obvious because you are working against the IoM whether directly or indirectly. Strange battle practices are kind of tolerated as long as achieve what they where send after.

Actually many chapters are declared Excommunicate for outlandish battle practices. Sons of Malice drank the blood of their victems in a ritualistic fashon and the Sisters tried to purge them for it. Knights of Blood have a bad habit of eating their allies. Both forces still fight against the enemies of the imperium even after the excommunication.

Or is it just the new trend to claim your chapter to be rebell, "but in truth they still are the nice guys". If they are not declared Excommunicate Traitoris they are no rebell. Still calling rebell is pretentious. And beeing declared Excommunicate Traitoris has serious consequences... The IoM has a 0 Tolerance policy for this. And if an entire chapter just goes renegade, chances are great that other chapters will be sent to hunt them, no matter if they are "still the good guyz".

Actually you would be surprised how many continue to float around. The Knights of Blood are helping the Blood Angels defend Baal with their full chapter, but do so alone, they accept no help. The Sons of Malice are still running around after butchering an army of Sisters. And if it was a 0 tolerance policy, how would chaos continue to recruit more and more chapters and warbands from loyalists-gone-rogue?

Autonomous can hardly be the case. You don't just need weapons and ammo. You also need replacements for losses, their ships need to see a dock if they are damaged, they need food and water (not just the marines but also all the serfs). No marines are not truly autonomous, only for a period of time that exceeds conventional troops. Marines dont have Forgeworlds on their ships... And their homeworld will either be destroyed or taken over by another chapter.

Actually many chapters produce their own weapons and ammunition, Battle Barges have the output capacity of a small forge world, the Salamanders have a relic they rely solely on for ammunition and weapons, the Fang for the Wolves has lower reaches that are devoted to servitors shackled to anvils and other machines, for the sole purpose of supplying weapons to the forces, and even cruisers have the ability to arm/stock a company of marines given the proper materials to construct bolt rounds. As for the home world, this is the Imperium. By the time the paperwork is filed and a fleet sent for exterminatus of the planet it'll be decades if not centuries. Unless they do something that explicitly threatens the IoM enough for a fleet to be dispatched with the sole purpose of quelling the rebellion, at which point exterminatus or not rests on the commander of the battlegroup.

Actually you would be surprised how many continue to float around.

You mentioned two...

And if it was a 0 tolerance policy, how would chaos continue to recruit more and more chapters and warbands from loyalists-gone-rogue?

The question doesnt make sense. It's because they have a 0 tolerance policy, that they can "recruit" from those chapters. The excommunicated simply have little other option to replenish losses. A Traitor is a traitor, and if they can the imperium will punish this. The reason they dont always is because they can't, as their fleets are needed elsewhere. The IoM is on the loosing side for all what we know after all.

Actually many chapters produce their own weapons and ammunition, Battle Barges have the output capacity of a small forge world

They can't produce vehicles and certainly no relic weapons. And i doubt they can just produce space marine armor. Chaos Marines mostly have to salvage their armor, so why would other renegades be that much different?
Also, Traitor chapters are usually dealt with by other chapters. Marines dont take decades to mobilize. And a decade doesnt make much of a difference for the future of a chapters homeworld. It only prolongs their fate (unless they join forces with somebody else).
You just can't win a war without economy as your backbone. And the imperium would be best to keep it that way. Because if a chapter goes renegade and is completely self sufficient (marine creation, weapon and vehicle production, supplies etc) that goes all with it once it goes renegade.

 Keep wrote:

Actually you would be surprised how many continue to float around.

You mentioned two...

And if it was a 0 tolerance policy, how would chaos continue to recruit more and more chapters and warbands from loyalists-gone-rogue?

The question doesnt make sense. It's because they have a 0 tolerance policy, that they can "recruit" from those chapters. The excommunicated simply have little other option. A Traitor is a traitor, and if they can they will punish this. The reason they dont always is because they can't, as their fleets are needed elsewhere. The IoM is on the loosing side for all what we know after all.

Actually many chapters produce their own weapons and ammunition, Battle Barges have the output capacity of a small forge world

They can't produce vehicles and certainly no relic weapons. And i doubt they can just produce space marine armor. Chaos Marines mostly have to salvage their armor, so why would other renegades be that much different?

The point there was that Space Marine Chapters are mostly self-sufficient. Not entirely, but mostly. Plus, Space Marines pretty much reuse almost all of their armour and weapons, so its not like they'll actually need too much extra Space Marine armour or relic weapons. Also, seriously? relic weapons? Yeah, because the AdMech can just up and craft a Mastercraft Relic Power Glaive with special rules all on a whim.

"mostly self sufficient" doesnt help you in a war of attrition. At some point they break.
They can't repair their spaceships so one battle where they sustain damage is enough to potentionally cripple them enough to be inefficient.
By relic weapons i meant rare weapons. And yes i dont see why admech can't craft a mastercrafted weapon... they dont just happen, somebody has/had to create them.

Pretty sure relic weapons are artifacts from the past, there STCs lost forever, and therefore never able to be recreated. But I could be wrong.

Relic weapons are just unique weapons with a certain history attached to them, and typically of fine craftmanship. Like Joyeuse compared to a bog standard longsword.