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On another note, the Q Continium 3 month OP is on its way. I and other Klingon lovers will still be disapointed as yet another B'rel is a prize. SIGH


http://www.universaldist.com/images/document/71998_71999_72000%20Star%20Trek%20Attack%20Wing%20-%20The%20Q-Continuumm%20Storyline%20Organized%20Play%20Kits.pdf

While an up coming wave will see another hull 6+ Romulan ship, the Haakona. Yet another D'deridex-class giving them a total of 6 hull 6+ ships. I agree they are under powered, but come on.

No clear answer if the Ning'Tao will be K'vort (Mem Beta) or B'rel (mem Alpha and DS9 DVD series bonus material enclypedia). what we don't need is another one shootable cloaked ship.

Do my eyes deceive me or are you a klingon player complaining about something romulans get that you don't?!?


C'mon man...

The solicit doesn't give a class for the BoP. It could be either a K'Vort or a B'Rel.

Since we didn't see much other than the D'Deridex on screen WK doesn't have much to go on. There is one other named science vessel and o e more scout ship. They could make the shuttle from "In the Pale moonlight", but I don't think shuttles will amount to much, so who cares.

As a Romulan playe I am looking forward to the Haakona.

As a Klingon player I love running a B'Rel swarm. Unfortunately for most players they have been prize ships only. If the Ning'Tao is indeed a B'Rel it will make a lot of people happy that have not been lucky enough to win one, let alone enough for a swarm. People havenbeen vocal aboutwwanting a proper Klingon swarm ship since day one of the game. The Ning'Tao could be it.

Not really, I own all 4 of the major factions, but currently the Scimitar and just about any high hull ship with Advanced Cloaking (from Vorta Vor) is very compettive. Romulans reallly don;t have to complain any longer.

All these combos with Advanced Cloaking make for a very compettive ship:

Toreth with Indy Dominion Fleet Captian on Valdore (or any captian to be honest, but soon to be unuseable)
or new Valdore skill 6 on Valdore
or Kharzara with Valdore skill 5 (turn into enemy when close and sensor echo range 2 into the flank)



The only thing I'm truly complaining about is the lack of named Vor'chas. A new K'vort would be ok with me but the Bor'tas and the Drovona would be nice additions to the Klingons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
we had a guy running a B'rel swarm, but it never seemed to work right. He just couldn't roll evades, bad luck maybe, but the B'rel came off as one shootable. Most competitive ships can score 4-6 hits after modify phase and re roll(s)................. looking at you Romulan Tactical Officer

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
Not really, I own all 4 of the major factions, but currently the Scimitar and just about any high hull ship with Advanced Cloaking (from Vorta Vor) is very compettive. Romulans reallly don;t have to complain any longer.

All these combos with Advanced Cloaking make for a very compettive ship:

Toreth with Indy Dominion Fleet Captian on Valdore (or any captian to be honest, but soon to be unuseable)
or new Valdore skill 6 on Valdore
or Kharzara with Valdore skill 5 (turn into enemy when close and sensor echo range 2 into the flank)

And I'd like to see you get more Vor'cha ships mate, but saying 'because the romcoms have it better' is not a great comparison to make.

Scimitar is expensive as saffron to load up.

The Valdore doesn't have a tech slot for the advanced cloak. It'll need to take the as yet unreleased new captain Valdore to get one, he isn't great aside from the tech slot...

The D'Deridex class, in general, really isn't aggressive enough for it's points. It's always a toss-up as to whether or not it wouldn't just be better suited to run decloaked, due to it's shields and hull, which runs contradictory to it's intended use.

Between these hulking capitol ships and our tiny ones, we need a mid range ship of some kind.

And we really need action economy. Something Klingons enjoy, along with lots of attack dice, in droves.

Yep, totally agree - Klingons have access to 2 identical unique crew (Drex & N'Garen) which makes a mockery of them being unique! They can also take Alexander, so you could use battlestations for BOTH attack and defence!

Anyway we now know it's a K'Vort again. I do agree that there should be the IKS Bortas

 emperorpenguin wrote:
Yep, totally agree - Klingons have access to 2 identical unique crew (Drex & N'Garen) which makes a mockery of them being unique! They can also take Alexander, so you could use battlestations for BOTH attack and defence!

Anyway we now know it's a K'Vort again. I do agree that there should be the IKS Bortas

We don't know if it is a K'Vort or a B'Rel. This is for the "Q Continuum", a 3 month storyline OP. The one Terri previewed today is for the one month episode OP "Matter of Honor".

D'oh! Seriously HOW MANY birds of prey!?

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

And I'd like to see you get more Vor'cha ships mate, but saying 'because the romcoms have it better' is not a great comparison to make.

Scimitar is expensive as saffron to load up.

The Valdore doesn't have a tech slot for the advanced cloak. It'll need to take the as yet unreleased new captain Valdore to get one, he isn't great aside from the tech slot...

The D'Deridex class, in general, really isn't aggressive enough for it's points. It's always a toss-up as to whether or not it wouldn't just be better suited to run decloaked, due to it's shields and hull, which runs contradictory to it's intended use.

Between these hulking capitol ships and our tiny ones, we need a mid range ship of some kind.

And we really need action economy. Something Klingons enjoy, along with lots of attack dice, in droves.

I think you miss understand me the complaint was never that the Klingons were underpowered. I just hate the selection of large class ships for the Klingons. I still run a triple vorcha list once in a while. It's a solid list even against Borg, however its a one trick pony.


Scimitar is a beast, it's very hard to kill at 7 hull and 6 defence dice while cloaked. Why load it up? what do you need on it other than a good captian (Salatrel cheap) and maybe a Interphase generator. A Tactical Officer? polarized hull plating? Both nice and cheap, but it doesn't need them or anything else. Just because it has a slot avaliable doen't mean you need to fill it.

As for Valdore class, untill fleet captian resource is/was nullified the IND dominion adds 2 tech slots, Toreth @ skill 8 is deadly on a Valdore.

The D'Deridex class could have been STR 4 with one less shield I agree, I even agree most of them are useless. However, I like the Khazara. It is the only D'Deridex class that I use and only with advanced cloaking (+1 Attack while cloaked) and captian Valdore skill 5 makes it even deadlier. only drawback low captain skill

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:


I think you miss understand me the complaint was never that the Klingons were underpowered. I just hate the selection of large class ships for the Klingons. I still run a triple vorcha list once in a while. It's a solid list even against Borg, however its a one trick pony.

I like the vorcha a lot and do concur there should be more named versions of it. Same goes for the Negh (a ship I'm very fond of). I know the BoP is iconic and all, but there is a saturation of that model at the moment. We totally agree there.

And I think of the Khaz as having a 'saving grace' in the extra attack, rather than a 'strong choice', because the rest of the DDs are daftly undergunned for a ship that's twice the size of a galaxy and was always referred to in NG as being able to outgun and beat down a galaxy in a 1-1 battle. I would have had Warbirds as +2 A with no reductions in other stats and an increase in points. They are mobile fortresses. I might have made it less mobile in response, perhaps. (a side whinge, but no tech slots on a Galaxy?!? The thing is a floating lab ffs, it's more science vessel than ship of war).

The Scimitar is a very strong choice, it's also highly pricey, I was also annoyed, as with many Romulan 'bells and whistles' (science, scout, forthcoming drone) that a good many of it's fun features are for it's class only, when 'romulan only' would have been far better imo.

And all the rom small ships are varying degrees of gak. Lots of useful cards in their packets but self harming cloak and no shields?!? There is the forthcoming drone ship, but again, it's add ons are all specific, there's little to no room for conversion or redesign in it and it's gimmick is offputting.

So, you're right, too many Klingon BoPs on the block, but at least you're not the poor country cousin to Klingons, the Romulans.

-Meangreen

You need to get yourself the Avatar of the Tomed. The borgified version is the D'Deridex you want. 6 hull and 5 shields is ace . The generic is nice too. I have played a couple games now running the Avatar and a generic together and it really is the ship that I wanted the D'Deridex to be. I don't mind the points increase over the starter version, it's worth it. Believe in the Avatar

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
-Meangreen

You need to get yourself the Avatar of the Tomed. The borgified version is the D'Deridex you want. 6 hull and 5 shields is ace . The generic is nice too. I have played a couple games now running the Avatar and a generic together and it really is the ship that I wanted the D'Deridex to be. I don't mind the points increase over the starter version, it's worth it. Believe in the Avatar

Confusing ship that, it comes with an elite talent (borg alliance) that doesn't seem playable on the ship (as it's a dual faction ship, therefore it is a borg ship, right?).

Also I'm unsure on using it, we'd all agreed no borg faction in the local game, to avoid curbstomps. I may feel a bit dirty using it on the wife's dominion...

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
-Meangreen

You need to get yourself the Avatar of the Tomed. The borgified version is the D'Deridex you want. 6 hull and 5 shields is ace . The generic is nice too. I have played a couple games now running the Avatar and a generic together and it really is the ship that I wanted the D'Deridex to be. I don't mind the points increase over the starter version, it's worth it. Believe in the Avatar

Confusing ship that, it comes with an elite talent (borg alliance) that doesn't seem playable on the ship (as it's a dual faction ship, therefore it is a borg ship, right?).

Also I'm unsure on using it, we'd all agreed no borg faction in the local game, to avoid curbstomps. I may feel a bit dirty using it on the wife's dominion...

Don't use the Borg items/cards? It comes with 4 total ship cards, named and non named Borg/Romulan, and named and non named Romulan. So the elite talent would be playable on the Romulan version of the Tomed. Playing the non Romulan only version does mean sacrificing that sweet extra shield though, but seeing as owning it nets Captain Salatrel as well, it still seems very worth it. Owning both Borg and Romulans now (and to think when I first became interested a few weeks ago I thought I was going to play Fed), the Tomed is high on my "to buy" list, and with that awesome new resource coming, my Borg/Romulan dreams are coming true.

As to the Q stuff, while it would be cool if that Excelsior is the Enterprise-B, I would rather they do it right and do an upgraded Excelsior class model. So I'm guessing it will be the Hood. Lakota with a real Captain Benteen card (instead of just her image on the generic Captain with the Raven) would also be awesome, but that too was an upgraded Excelsior.

This annoys me so much when people say that the Scimitar is weak because it's expensive or they say that the romulans are a weak faction. You don't even need upgrades on it, it can out fight and out maneuver almost any non borg ship. It is the definition of an easy button ship, and as for the problem of romulans having no action economy is because there strategy is more focused on generating a ton of attacking dice then using tactical officer and the reroll blanks on plasma torpedos to get hits. They are not a underpowered faction because they don't have a ship with a 180 degree firing arc or because there small ships are weak they have plenty of cards that make them competitive.

 ds9lord wrote:
This annoys me so much when people say that the Scimitar is weak because it's expensive or they say that the romulans are a weak faction. You don't even need upgrades on it, it can out fight and out maneuver almost any non borg ship. It is the definition of an easy button ship, and as for the problem of romulans having no action economy is because there strategy is more focused on generating a ton of attacking dice then using tactical officer and the reroll blanks on plasma torpedos to get hits. They are not a underpowered faction because they don't have a ship with a 180 degree firing arc or because there small ships are weak they have plenty of cards that make them competitive.

Who said the Scimitar was weak?

Also, the Romulans do suffer from several disadvantages when compared to Feds, Klingons and Borg. I would say they rank below Dominion as well, not too far, but certainly aren't up to the Big 3.

And I remain perfectly happy with the current conclusion that a mid tier ship in the low 20s and some action economy would serve the Romulan faction really well.


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 derek wrote:


As to the Q stuff, while it would be cool if that Excelsior is the Enterprise-B, I would rather they do it right and do an upgraded Excelsior class model. So I'm guessing it will be the Hood. Lakota with a real Captain Benteen card (instead of just her image on the generic Captain with the Raven) would also be awesome, but that too was an upgraded Excelsior.

To be fair, the Hood has a huge history and therefore plenty of opportunity for cards etc.

Oh, Star Trek? I'm not intrested in that anymore. But I was curious as to what this thread was.

 ds9lord wrote:
This annoys me so much when people say that the Scimitar is weak because it's expensive or they say that the romulans are a weak faction. You don't even need upgrades on it, it can out fight and out maneuver almost any non borg ship. It is the definition of an easy button ship, and as for the problem of romulans having no action economy is because there strategy is more focused on generating a ton of attacking dice then using tactical officer and the reroll blanks on plasma torpedos to get hits. They are not a underpowered faction because they don't have a ship with a 180 degree firing arc or because there small ships are weak they have plenty of cards that make them competitive.

It wasn't impossible to win with Romulans before the Scimitar & Avatar came out, but it was an up hill battle.The release of those two ships helped a lot. Khazara isn't a bad ship, but having to be cloaked to het 4 attacks hurts with so many 6+ hull ships out there. Advance Cloak helps, but once you take 3-4 to the hull you want shields up and 3 attacks won't cut it most of the time. The Valdor is great but lacks a tech, romulans survive on tech. So that means you need to add something to it, which is easy in mixed factions. But if you play faction pure its a little harder, limited to fleet captain or a card that comes in a $90 model, not outstanding options.

Scimitar is a beast and Avatar is a workhorse. Before these 2 came out Romulans could hold their own against Klingons and Dominion though they were at a slight disadvantage against Federation, and just out gunned by the Borg. Now they have an edge and each of the main factions should have some kind of edge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:


To be fair, the Hood has a huge history and therefore plenty of opportunity for cards etc.

The Hood has a history in Trek, but we see very little of it. It is mostly off screen. We see captain Desoto, but in canon there is nothing known about him so the 1 skill generic we have is actually fitting. It transported Admiral McCoy, but other than walk around the hall ot the Enterprise he didn't do anything. That isn't much to base an expansion off of. It would wind up like the Yeager hodgepodge from various other episodes, which doesn't bother me but I know annoys some. There is nothing in canon for the Hood that can't be represented by a generic Excelsior class.

A better choice would be the Lakota or Enterprise B, but none of them have anything to do with Q.

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:

But if you play faction pure its a little harder, limited to fleet captain or a card that comes in a $90 model, not outstanding

A little help which card is that


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's probably Ent B from Generations, remember they rescued Guinon's people they were fleeing the Borg

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
Oh, Star Trek? I'm not intrested in that anymore. But I was curious as to what this thread was.

Thanks for stopping by, San Diego...

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:

But if you play faction pure its a little harder, limited to fleet captain or a card that comes in a $90 model, not outstanding

A little help which card is that


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's probably Ent B from Generations, remember they rescued Guinon's people they were fleeing the Borg

I was thinking about T'Rul, she comes with the DS9 crew pack. She is a Romulan 4points, adds a tech slot, and if you are cloaked you can choose to roll 3 less dice to add an evade to your roll, plus she helps with cloaking devices. Her other abilities are not that great, but she does add a tech slot.

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:

But if you play faction pure its a little harder, limited to fleet captain or a card that comes in a $90 model, not outstanding

A little help which card is that

Edit-And he beat me to it cause I got distracted replying.

Well, as for the Excelsior, since it's not a refit model, we can count out the Enterprise B and Lakota, because both of those are Excelsior-Refit class ships. (They're both a bit larger and differently shaped than the regular excelsior)

However, it could be the U.S.S. Hood. That was one busy ship during the 24th Century. Courier missions etc, then she was in several major engagements in the Dominion War. Operation Return, 1st Battle of Chin'Toka. She was also part of the taskforce ordered to sector 1045 to intercept the Scimitar.

It could also be the USS Gorkon or USS Frederickson.

Could also be the USS Malinche, which was involved with the Federation/Maquis conflict with Michael Eddington.

The Potemkin is another ship with rich history. As being a ship both La Forge AND Riker both served on.

Any of those are possible, apart from the Lakota we never see anything other than a captain. The Lakota we see some crew and they talk about weapons upgrades so there are a few cards possibilities. Prize packs usually have 9-10 cards take out 4 for ships, movment, and generic captain. A named captain makes 5 so they have to come up with about 4 cards which are usually a talent, crew, tech, and weapon.

The Hood makes scenes given the OP, because it was in Encounter at Farpoin. But i am not sure what kind of talent they would give to DeSoto . We have seen that the OPs and the prize ships don't always have anything in common, i.e. Krayton, Sutherland, Stargazer. We probably have the most material for the Lakota though.

Lakota wouldn't make sense though, Lakota is Excelsior Refit, If they ever plan on giving the Ent-B a model too, they'd have to use that same model for the Lakota.

I don't think it is actually a refit, but just added impulse drives. Given that the upgrades are relatively minor I doubt they would make another model for two ships. Personally it wouldn't bother me, but I know it wouldn't please everyone.

Actually, the Excelsior Refit IS an entirely different class of ship, so much so that every time it's appeared in a game they have to make the distinction between normal and refit.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Excelsior_class

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/USS_Lakota

One of the major differences I can tell is the Refit has more phaser banks than the regular. Refit is outfitted more like a battleship than the regular Excelsior Class. Plus the expanded scoop near the deflector dish. It's enough of a design change to warrant a new model. Plus the current excelsior model is just terrible. If they make Ent B and Lakota a part of the game with that model, i'll ragequit because the model sucks so much. As an excelsior fan-boy, I must protest to the harsh model.

Just do what I'm going to be doing and order something better from shapeways...

I'm jobless right now, lol. If I get a model for attack wing, I have to trade stuff in to my LGS to get it. I can't afford to buy shapeways because it's so expensive.

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
Actually, the Excelsior Refit IS an entirely different class of ship, so much so that every time it's appeared in a game they have to make the distinction between normal and refit.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Excelsior_class

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/USS_Lakota

One of the major differences I can tell is the Refit has more phaser banks than the regular. Refit is outfitted more like a battleship than the regular Excelsior Class. Plus the expanded scoop near the deflector dish. It's enough of a design change to warrant a new model. Plus the current excelsior model is just terrible. If they make Ent B and Lakota a part of the game with that model, i'll ragequit because the model sucks so much. As an excelsior fan-boy, I must protest to the harsh model.

It's not like the Enterprise refit though were there is a clear difference from a distance. The two little impulse drives in the Excelsior would be hardly noticeable on the table unless you are holding the model right up to you face. But that is a matter of personal taste, to each their own, I just don't expect WK to make a new model for it.

As for stats I would say they should be the same as the Excelsior we have now. Remember even with her upgrades the Lakota fought the defiant to a stalemate. The current stats of both ships relect that well even if the defiant is 2 points cheaper. If you increase the attack of the Excelsior class you are talking galaxy firenpower and even the Lakota wasn't that good. None of the other stats would reflect the upgrades either.

The only change I would make for a named Lakota would be an extra weapon slot to have it come with Dorsal Phaser array and quantum torpedoes. Have the names ability be -2poits for all federation weapon upgrades. I think that would adequately reflect what we saw on screen.

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
Actually, the Excelsior Refit IS an entirely different class of ship, so much so that every time it's appeared in a game they have to make the distinction between normal and refit.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Excelsior_class

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/USS_Lakota

One of the major differences I can tell is the Refit has more phaser banks than the regular. Refit is outfitted more like a battleship than the regular Excelsior Class. Plus the expanded scoop near the deflector dish. It's enough of a design change to warrant a new model. Plus the current excelsior model is just terrible. If they make Ent B and Lakota a part of the game with that model, i'll ragequit because the model sucks so much. As an excelsior fan-boy, I must protest to the harsh model.

It's not like the Enterprise refit though were there is a clear difference from a distance. The two little impulse drives in the Excelsior would be hardly noticeable on the table unless you are holding the model right up to you face. But that is a matter of personal taste, to each their own, I just don't expect WK to make a new model for it.

As for stats I would say they should be the same as the Excelsior we have now. Remember even with her upgrades the Lakota fought the defiant to a stalemate. The current stats of both ships relect that well even if the defiant is 2 points cheaper. If you increase the attack of the Excelsior class you are talking galaxy firenpower and even the Lakota wasn't that good. None of the other stats would reflect the upgrades either.

The only change I would make for a named Lakota would be an extra weapon slot to have it come with Dorsal Phaser array and quantum torpedoes. Have the names ability be -2poits for all federation weapon upgrades. I think that would adequately reflect what we saw on screen.

Not to mention a change in color, the Excelsior refits were more white in appearance whereas the regular excelsiors were blue/silver. "D