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Hey guys,

I have this fantasy... well an idea

Basically I want to use 2 necron ghost arks as AV13 walls to my orks. The general idea is; they start sideways on my deployment line (Maximizing both AV13 wall length and the distance I will be able to move the wall due to pivoting).
Turn 1:

I can rotate move forwards

Then rotate back to a wall

Then I can move my orks forward, running or whatever due to not being in range yet.

OR:

I can move at 45 degrees away from each other

rotate 90 to face inwards

shooting phase; now I have a gap, which my orks can shoot through if in range

ghostarks can then turboboost to shut the gap up after shooting

You can probably imagine it easier as; A mouth with a gun for a tongue, starting shut, movement phase the mouth opens, shooting phase the tongue shoots, end of shooting phase the mouth shuts. Providing me with protection without actually giving the enemy an opening.

Turn 2:
I can use either the second method, to allow my orks to shoot, or I can simply rotate and use the ghostark combined with the warriors inside to throwout a hail of fire, all the while shielding my advancing orks. Then once they do pop my wall ive got a nice 9 man warrior squad with a overlord/cryptek, hopefully giving me a nice meatshield that has reanimation protocols. also using the BRB FoC, they would alos be Objsec, so could potentially sit on objectives pretty well, with good shooting.

Do you guys have any thoughts? Does the ghostark count as a BLOS? considering it is floating? can you shoot under it? obviously assuming the enemy is on the same level and not at the top of a building.
In terms of orks, I thought it could potentially work well with a walker list, as they are slow enough that the zigzagging ghostarks are not hampering them getting into combat, like with a speedfreak list. Could work with footsloggas too, or a artillery heavy list, opening to allow plasma cannons and so forth, before shutting.

Being desperate allies you will have to worry about "one eye open", and the ghost arks are unlikely to block line of sight sufficiently enough to stop your orks being shot. In 7th you can draw line of sight from any part of the shooter, including legs/feet and with the ghost ark on a 1 inch skimmer stalk it is easy to see any infantry on the opposite side.

As above, it's very unlikely they'll block LoS. If a model can see an Ork behind it, they can shoot it. They'll get a cover save, but that's it.

Tau will just ignore the cover. Eldar will go around it. Marines will drop past it. Guard will shoot over it.

xera32 wrote:Being desperate allies you will have to worry about "one eye open", and the ghost arks are unlikely to block line of sight sufficiently enough to stop your orks being shot. In 7th you can draw line of sight from any part of the shooter, including legs/feet and with the ghost ark on a 1 inch skimmer stalk it is easy to see any infantry on the opposite side.

Yeh i know about one eye open... but my opinion is... orks are so random, more random just adds more fun so i'd try it without that worrying me.

grendel083 wrote:As above, it's very unlikely they'll block LoS. If a model can see an Ork behind it, they can shoot it. They'll get a cover save, but that's it.

Tau will just ignore the cover. Eldar will go around it. Marines will drop past it. Guard will shoot over it.

Thanks for the info on shooting. Potentially when I convert the ghost arks, I could drop some plasticard to the ground, the idea being that its like a wall of a dozerblade, almost as if the orks specifically planned for this type of use of the ghostark. Then due to being now a true BLOS, any ignores cover weapons would still be unable to do anything. obviously barrage or elevated models will ignore this regardless.

I mainly ask because I have been given a whole load of crons that im converting, the two ghostarks will also count as BW's when I play pure orks with my blitz brigade, trying to grab some extra milage and fun/silly tactics. So if i made the ghost ark a true BLOS what would your opinions be then? baring in mind im not trying to go to tournies where those 3 knights wouldn't give a rats ass bout my wall

Solar Shock wrote:
Potentially when I convert the ghost arks, I could drop some plasticard to the ground, the idea being that its like a wall of a dozerblade, almost as if the orks specifically planned for this type of use of the ghostark. Then due to being now a true BLOS, any ignores cover weapons would still be unable to do anything.

I'll be completely honest, I can't see any opponent being happy playing against such an altered model (that an extreme case of "modelling for advantage").
Any tournament setting you wouldn't be allowed to even place that model on the table. Even a friendly no one is going to be ok with it.

Your changing a model to grant a HUGE bonus that it doesn't normally give, at no extra points cost. My advise, don't even think about doing it.

 grendel083 wrote:

Solar Shock wrote:
Potentially when I convert the ghost arks, I could drop some plasticard to the ground, the idea being that its like a wall of a dozerblade, almost as if the orks specifically planned for this type of use of the ghostark. Then due to being now a true BLOS, any ignores cover weapons would still be unable to do anything.

I'll be completely honest, I can't see any opponent being happy playing against such an altered model (that an extreme case of "modelling for advantage").
Any tournament setting you wouldn't be allowed to even place that model on the table. Even a friendly no one is going to be ok with it.

Your changing a model to grant a HUGE bonus that it doesn't normally give, at no extra points cost. My advise, don't even think about doing it.

all my models are converted, many provide some advantages and lose others, I get what your saying, so in general people shoot through ghostarks? considering they are made of holes (the weird rib effect), plus if you play fluffy wouldn't it be considered a quantum shield is actually a shield effect and as such would 'in reality' block a shot that was on a path to go between its armour, now I know that 'in reality' doesn't actually count, just a point I dont actually play necrons and am still a 'begineer' in terms of play experience.

Out of interest, its not a requirement to play a ghostark on a stand is it? in which case it would touch the floor. i see bikers played not on bases, which would then be modelling for advantage no? I see raiders also played like this, do they simply assume they dont BLOS as if it had it stand it wouldn't?

Please don't take this as flaming or attempting to like say your wrong, simply giving some return points that I would really appreciate your input on as I have no experience with crons.

Solar Shock wrote:
Out of interest, its not a requirement to play a ghostark on a stand is it?

Yes there is an actual rule, in the General Principles section of the rulebook. If a model comes with a base, it really needs to be on it. All rules assume a model is on the base it's supplied with. Bikes especially, in their case everything is measured to and from the base: Shooting, blasts, charge distances etc.

 grendel083 wrote:

Solar Shock wrote:
Out of interest, its not a requirement to play a ghostark on a stand is it?

Yes there is an actual rule, in the General Principles section of the rulebook. If a model comes with a base, it really needs to be on it. All rules assume a model is on the base it's supplied with. Bikes especially, in their case everything is measured to and from the base: Shooting, blasts, charge distances etc.

ah thank you very much
Hmm back to the drawing board then! my ghostarks will just have to do there normal ghostarky stuff; pepper rapid fire shots into stuff

Here's a classic example of what you were suggesting: Adding parts to block LOS on a vehicle that can't normally do so. Do you feel this example is fair play?

thats a little OTT

By your statement then i should throw my whole army away that i spent hours converting and basing... because that cork is modelling for advantage




Automatically Appended Next Post:
infact any conversion is therefore modelling for advantage, as its not the exact model at the exact height

Those Orks are hardly blocking LoS or gaining any advantage (Nice Orks by the way ). Nothing wrong with a cool conversion.

But when you talk about adding plates to a vehicle to block line of sight and shield your army, it's a step to far

 grendel083 wrote:
Those Orks are hardly blocking LoS or gaining any advantage (Nice Orks by the way ). Nothing wrong with a cool conversion.

But when you talk about adding plates to a vehicle to block line of sight and shield your army, it's a step to far

ahahaha I would love to see that rhino on the table. I might even let em play it just because it is sooooo rediculous! What you didn't know was theres actually a riptide behind it

anyway, another serious question though;
if i convert the ghostark to a BW, should i lose the stand and give it something else? maybe not wheels, but atleast rockets/thrusters that close the bottom more?

Solar Shock wrote:
By your statement then i should throw my whole army away that i spent hours converting and basing... because that cork is modelling for advantage
infact any conversion is therefore modelling for advantage, as its not the exact model at the exact height

Modelling for advantage.
Did you convert them in order to get an in-game advantage, or did you convert them just to look cool? My guess is the latter.

When you planned to convert the Ghost Arks in order to gain an advantage on the battlefield then yes, that was most certainly modelling for advantage.

Also: Holy gak, those orks rock.

Solar Shock wrote:
anyway, another serious question though;
if i convert the ghostark to a BW, should i lose the stand and give it something else? maybe not wheels, but atleast rockets/thrusters that close the bottom more?

I'd try and keep it as similar size to the official Battlewagon as possible, which should be fairly easy as they're of similar sizes.

Wheels and rockets would look awesome. Proper looted

Mallich wrote:

Solar Shock wrote:

When you planned to convert the Ghost Arks in order to gain an advantage on the battlefield then yes, that was most certainly modelling for advantage.

Also: Holy gak, those orks rock.

grendel083 wrote:
Wheels and rockets would look awesome. Proper looted

Yeh its a shame I cant model them to look and act how I want.... mostly because I just have this hilarious movie playing in my head, where this ork force is tearing across the battlefield and just as the IG tank line prepares to fire, the ghostarks swing wide and the sides coated in dozerblades crash into the ground and begin to surge across the battlefeild like a wall, the terror on the IG's faces as they realise they are facing a quantum wall that is hiding a huge waaaaagh! and the manical laughter from the orks as the IG helplessly pound shot after shot into the wall

I think I will have to magnetise some armour to the sides of the ghostarks, mostly because I want them to look cool, and by magnetising I can remove it so when I play it as a ghostark you can still see through it without BLOS. But then when its my BW it will still look nice and scrapy with its magnetised armour

Cheers for all the info, I will hopefully have a bash at one this sunday! il post pics