Is there a 40k community for women or at least nice people?

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**BlaxicanX**

Torga_DW wrote:
DarknessEternal wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Yeah! What @#%$ said we ain't $%^$ing polite here?

Well, you yourself are frequently encouraging hate-storms.

GW makes the storm, the rest of us just ride it.

Epic.

**bodazoka**

Where every body knows your name?

And there also glad you came?

**morganfreeman**

lustigjh wrote:
Is this site really that bad? I thought it was kind of nice here. Then again, I frequented reddit for two years so maybe I'm used to much worse.

I must second this. Dakka is far-and-away the friendliest board I've ever been to. Sure, there are bad apples here and there as well as the occasional argument, but by and large it's pretty good.

Moving on from that, I also must second that the P&M forums are the pinnacle of this. Rarely have I ever seen anything but a kind (and often constructive) word spoken in either place.

**Vaktathi**

Dakka's a great board, generally people are typically rather friendly on here.

It's certainly better than something like the god-awful Reddit warhammer group

**SagesStone**

This place is the nicest I've seen besides when you get the large influx of new people sometimes, but that always balances back out to the normal. The make the call sections are probably the roughest parts of it though, but overall its pretty decent.

**xraytango**

Has she thought about creating a group page on the Facebook? Does it have to be female miniature gamers only or would she allow women RPGers and Boardgamers in as well?

Sometimes if you want a community, you have to build the community.

**office_waaagh**

the_Armyman wrote:
...the Off-Topic sub-forum is full of liberal, anti-capitalist, pot-smoking douchetards that think that government handouts and more legislation is a-okay! Hee hee!

Wargaming is not a gender-diverse crowd. It never will be, I suspect. Just as the best professional athletes will be male, the best warfighters will be male. It's in our genes. That's not misogynistic, it simply IS.

As for the negativity? Welcome to the Internet? You really can't control what some anon on a forum is going to say or do. Positive interactions are better had IRL.

I...don't really know how to respond to this. If...if you can't see how this is misogynistic, I don't know what to tell you. Except to humbly suggest that it is this sort of attitude that will keep wargaming from becoming gender-diverse. But this is a good example of the sort of thing she'd like to avoid. Needlessly insulting people ("douchetards" etc), saying that women can't be as good as men and that's just a reality that we have to accept, and saying that negativity is just the price of entry to the internet. Exactly what would make her leave a forum and never come back. A feeling I fully sympathize with.

DarkLink wrote:The BoLS forums are probably about as female friendly as you can get. Not only are a number of top posters openly female, but there are several running threads on feminism and lgbt issues in the off-topic. Granted, if you're a guy, and you say anything that could remotely be construed as theoretically possibly being sexist in some conceivable way, Eldargal will flame the gak out of you, but her ire is only directed at guys. Or white people, I guess, if it's about a race issue like Ferguson, but even then it's really only white guys... huh, I kinda do see what you mean about trolls.

She's not a feminist, not a vocal one in any case. I'm probably more keen on it than she is, honestly. She'd be driven off just as much by someone flaming other people with anti-patriarchal vitriol as she would by GW bashing and powergamers. She just wants a place where she can chat with like-minded people about the hobby she loves, talk about things she's excited about, and have fun.

Sadie read through the comments on the thread and said "I want to be able to post the tyranid earrings that I made and not have popcorn thrown at me for being too girly."

Thanks again folks.

**epronovost**

"I want to be able to post the tyranid earrings that I made and not have popcorn thrown at me for being too girly.

That's pretty damn awsome. I would like to know how to make some (my girlfriend is also a nid player and seems like a nice gift to make.).

Has for Dakka, it's on average pretty nice. It has its fauna of bigotry and closet racism like any other place on internet but at least most of those comments aren't from ill thinking persons and aren't really agressive. With some thread surfing skills, it's a very nice place. It offer a very large community.

**ClockworkZion**

office_waaagh wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
If you're looking for a safe place on the internet there just isn't one. Sadly, even for the pure painter/collector among us the internet has a very magical way of stripping all the magic out of everything it touches, wargames included.

That's, like, the most depressing thing I've read all week.

Oh, but Sadie did say to thank everyone for being so helpful, and to tell Ailaros that he's a sweetheart.

Sorry for the depression there, I've just been seeing a LOT of drama lately where I'm finding out that stuff I like has a lot of awful going on behind it and starting hormones this week as not made me cheerier as of yet.

**office_waaagh**

ClockworkZion wrote:
office_waaagh wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
If you're looking for a safe place on the internet there just isn't one. Sadly, even for the pure painter/collector among us the internet has a very magical way of stripping all the magic out of everything it touches, wargames included.

That's, like, the most depressing thing I've read all week.

Oh, but Sadie did say to thank everyone for being so helpful, and to tell Ailaros that he's a sweetheart.

Sorry for the depression there, I've just been seeing a LOT of drama lately where I'm finding out that stuff I like has a lot of awful going on behind it and starting hormones this week as not made me cheerier as of yet.

Hey, depressing or not, you're not wrong. Sorry to hear that it's been a rough week for you though. Taking hormones is always rough on the mood, especially at first. Spending time on the internet probably doesn't help either. Anyway, I hope you feel better.

**EVIL INC**

I can understand those people flaming you if you make rude comments towards groups of people. Not that we should expect everyone to be super nicey nice and always be 100 politically correct of course, but neither should people on a forum have to see racism and prejudice spewed all over them either as they do in "some" other places. neither should they be afraid to post anything ven remotely positive about 40k, it's background or models a s they are here or the reverse on warseer. they should be allowed to ave a different opinionwithout having to worry about 12+ pages of flames with the modsleading the charge Dakka and Portent/warseer and a few others have a wide reputation for that. True there is no "perfectly safe" places on the internet.
i'd still suggest BOLS and different facebook groups like the overlords.
Otherwise, I think the suggestion to stick to the modeling/painting sections in many places is a good idea for the safety. However, women and polite people should not have to make the decision to avoid the sections actually discussing the game because of the behavior of the "regulers" there. A thick skin is a requirement of successfully going on the internet. Some places you just need a thicker skin than others.
Cheers on looking out for her. If she is anything like my better half, she will likely find her own way even with your helpfull suggestions to her. lol Hope she enjoy her stay in the hobby.
Edit:

epronovost wrote:
"I want to be able to post the tyranid earrings that I made and not have popcorn thrown at me for being too girly.

That's pretty damn awsome. I would like to know how to make some (my girlfriend is also a nid player and seems like a nice gift to make.).

Indeed. That is a great idea. Ove the years, i have made mini-diarama apainteeeed single models for different women. Never thought of something like that. ahow to tutorial and suggestions of different ideas for different armies would be a great idea.Not girly at all, just trying to put a smile on the face of someone you care about.

**the_Armyman**

office_waaagh wrote:
the_Armyman wrote:
...the Off-Topic sub-forum is full of liberal, anti-capitalist, pot-smoking douchetards that think that government handouts and more legislation is a-okay! Hee hee!

Wargaming is not a gender-diverse crowd. It never will be, I suspect. Just as the best professional athletes will be male, the best warfighters will be male. It's in our genes. That's not misogynistic, it simply IS.

As for the negativity? Welcome to the Internet? You really can't control what some anon on a forum is going to say or do. Positive interactions are better had IRL.

I...don't really know how to respond to this. If...if you can't see how this is misogynistic, I don't know what to tell you. Except to humbly suggest that it is this sort of attitude that will keep wargaming from becoming gender-diverse. But this is a good example of the sort of thing she'd like to avoid. Needlessly insulting people ("douchetards" etc), saying that women can't be as good as men and that's just a reality that we have to accept, and saying that negativity is just the price of entry to the internet. Exactly what would make her leave a forum and never come back. A feeling I fully sympathize with.

The "hee hee" at the end of my "douchetards" comment was meant to be a j/k, poking fun comment. Next time I'll include the appropriate emoticon to drive the point home

(see what I did there?)

See, here's the problem I have with this discussion. I point out a reality, a biological fact--men are genetically built to be physically stronger and faster --and somehow, I offend your sensibilities by bringing it up. By virtue of me being male, does that make me automatically physically superior to ALL women? Of course not. Wargaming is not an exclusively male pasttime, but it is dominated by males. You would say because they're excluded, they're not welcome by people like me. I would say that it is not a pursuit that interests women because they have not historically been interested in simulations of warfare. It historically has not been a part of their experience as a gender.

Women and men are different. They have different interests and different genetic predispositions. Are there exceptions? Yes. But these women are exceptions for a reason, just not the one you seem to be conditioned to point out.

BTW, I do find it kind strange that you refer to your wife as "sensitive" and portray her as this wilting flower that has difficulty with the adversity and potential negativity of an Internet forum. It's almost as if you consider her weak and wish to protect her from all of us male troglodytes. Are you sure you're not projecting a bit?

**Kid_Kyoto**

xraytango wrote:
Has she thought about creating a group page on the Facebook? Does it have to be female miniature gamers only or would she allow women RPGers and Boardgamers in as well?

Sometimes if you want a community, you have to build the community.

In all seriousness I think this might be the best way forward. Especially using Facebook where people are a bit more restrained since their words can be tied to their real names.

**Ailaros**

ClockworkZion wrote:Sorry for the depression there, I've just been seeing a LOT of drama lately where I'm finding out that stuff I like has a lot of awful going on behind it and starting hormones this week as not made me cheerier as of yet.

Yeah, this exploded to much higher levels once 7th edition came out. I just threw a few dozen people on my ignore list and rode it out. There are still a few sticking around devoted to correcting anyone stupid enough to be having fun with 40k, but by and large, it's been waning slowly over time.

Especially in certain parts of the forum moreso than others.

DarkLink wrote:The BoLS forums are probably about as female friendly as you can get. Not only are a number of top posters openly female, but there are several running threads on feminism and lgbt issues in the off-topic. Granted, if you're a guy, and you say anything that could remotely be construed as theoretically possibly being sexist in some conceivable way, Eldargal will flame the gak out of you

I'd note, though, that "feminist" and "woman-friendly" are not synonyms. My wife is a woman, and she's gotten pretty fed-up with social justice types.

One of the best ways to be friendly to women is to not drag gender into everything. Especially for people who want to be judged as a person, not just by their gribbly bits. You know, like most women.

**ClockworkZion**

office_waaagh wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
office_waaagh wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
If you're looking for a safe place on the internet there just isn't one. Sadly, even for the pure painter/collector among us the internet has a very magical way of stripping all the magic out of everything it touches, wargames included.

That's, like, the most depressing thing I've read all week.

Oh, but Sadie did say to thank everyone for being so helpful, and to tell Ailaros that he's a sweetheart.

Sorry for the depression there, I've just been seeing a LOT of drama lately where I'm finding out that stuff I like has a lot of awful going on behind it and starting hormones this week as not made me cheerier as of yet.

Hey, depressing or not, you're not wrong. Sorry to hear that it's been a rough week for you though. Taking hormones is always rough on the mood, especially at first. Spending time on the internet probably doesn't help either. Anyway, I hope you feel better.

It'll get better in time. At least I'm not mood-swinging at work.

**koooaei**

Just avoid discussions like: "Tacticals are garbage", "Why i hate latest edition and everyone in particular", "Spawns can't run because they have no eyes to forego shooting" and you're good.

In all fairness, dakka friendliness is way above average. Sure, it's not a pony-land with rainbows everywhere and everyone farting butterflies but it's decently friendly.

**Bharring**

Please don't take all the decent people, and leave me behind with the other dreks like me. It would make this community poorer :(

**DarkLink**

office_waaagh wrote:

DarkLink wrote:The BoLS forums are probably about as female friendly as you can get. Not only are a number of top posters openly female, but there are several running threads on feminism and lgbt issues in the off-topic. Granted, if you're a guy, and you say anything that could remotely be construed as theoretically possibly being sexist in some conceivable way, Eldargal will flame the gak out of you, but her ire is only directed at guys. Or white people, I guess, if it's about a race issue like Ferguson, but even then it's really only white guys... huh, I kinda do see what you mean about trolls.

She's not a feminist, not a vocal one in any case. I'm probably more keen on it than she is, honestly. She'd be driven off just as much by someone flaming other people with anti-patriarchal vitriol as she would by GW bashing and powergamers. She just wants a place where she can chat with like-minded people about the hobby she loves, talk about things she's excited about, and have fun.

Sadie read through the comments on the thread and said "I want to be able to post the tyranid earrings that I made and not have popcorn thrown at me for being too girly."

Thanks again folks.

Oh, I'm very familiar with Eldargal's posts, I'm one of the regulars on BoLS. Most of the time she's cool, but every once and a while she absolutely goes off on someone. I think the last time it happened she got the BoLS Ferguson thread locked, which is saying something as BoLS mods rarely lock threads. The troll implication was mostly a joke. As long as you don't imply that you're against abortion or don't feel that the Ferguson grand jury acquittal was racist, you should be fine

.

Really, in general, I've found that most of the major forums think of all the other major forums as hives of scum and villainy. It's mostly overrated.

**cvtuttle**

office_waaagh wrote:
the_Armyman wrote:
Lobukia wrote:

Wow, you just recommended BoLS Trolls as a nice place?! I disagree. Dakkadakka certainly isn't the answer to the question either, but I like it that way.

I'd recommend the ICs forums. Kind people, more focus on narrative play, tends to be positive... #tuttletime

http://www.theindependentcharacters.com/forums/

+1

The Independent Characters forum has a different culture than Dakka. It's much more positive and the mods play a role in keeping it positive. But, positivity can also stifle legitimate debate. Everything is not well in 40K Land, and although it's not good to only dwell on that aspect, it's also pretty damn hard to ignore.

Dakka has a rough edge at times, but you also can get some honest, thoughtful feedback and discussion from a really diverse group of hobbyists.

A "rough edge" is putting it somewhat mildly. I don't consider myself an easily offended person: I've been a non-com in the infantry for my entire adult life. I'm used to the trash talk and so on, and dakka is pretty mild by the standards of the internet. But Sadie is different; she's sensitive, and she likes chatting and having fun and isn't so interested in debating how evil GW is and how bad the latest rules are or how broken some unit or other is. If she posted something like "I love my tyranids, the Alien vibe is awesome and the new models are amazing!" she'd get a bunch of replies along the lines of "Lol the maleceptor is terrible and you should never use it", "GW stole the Alien look because they're uncreative money-grubbing thieves", "ever since 6th dropped assault is dead and so are 'nids because GW can't write balanced rules", and so on, and she'd leave feeling completely deflated and sad when all she wanted was to come and chat about a thing she loves. On that basis, I have a really hard time recommending dakka to her. I don't want to set her up to get her feelings hurt.

Whether or not all is well in 40k land is a matter for debate. I don't see any problems, but I don't play in tournaments against taudar wave serpent spam or 2++ rerollable invisible daemon factories. The game is fun and the fluff is cool, and that's all I ask for. Now, people are going to disagree with me, and that's fine. But there's a tendency on dakka for certain people to ambush threads and denounce GW and 40k roundly, regardless of what the actual topic of discussion is, and spoil the atmosphere for people that really just want to talk about how much fun they're having. People get touchy, backs get up, and suddenly there's a wall of text three pages long about whether paying 5 points for a grot orderly makes you subhuman.

I kind of have a problem with the idea that we're a "diverse" group of hobbyists, to be honest. The fact that I know there are women out there (besides Sadie) that love 40k and won't come near a place like dakka for all the tea in China because of the hostility and negativity suggests otherwise. I'm not saying every forum has to be all-inclusive; people for whom 40k is srs bsns need a place to chat and vent their frustrations too. But it doesn't lead to a lot of diversity, and it drives other people away.

Thanks for all the great suggestions, everyone.

Cheers,
Jesse.

While I am ending The Independent Characters Podcast in April - the forums will remain active and open and they are indeed a bit of a "safe haven" in the maelstrom that is many of the larger online communities. If your wife is on Facebook, I would also recommend The Overlords facebook group which is also heavily moderated and quite a nice place to hang.

**jreilly89**

the_Armyman wrote:
office_waaagh wrote:
the_Armyman wrote:
...the Off-Topic sub-forum is full of liberal, anti-capitalist, pot-smoking douchetards that think that government handouts and more legislation is a-okay! Hee hee!

Wargaming is not a gender-diverse crowd. It never will be, I suspect. Just as the best professional athletes will be male, the best warfighters will be male. It's in our genes. That's not misogynistic, it simply IS.

As for the negativity? Welcome to the Internet? You really can't control what some anon on a forum is going to say or do. Positive interactions are better had IRL.

I...don't really know how to respond to this. If...if you can't see how this is misogynistic, I don't know what to tell you. Except to humbly suggest that it is this sort of attitude that will keep wargaming from becoming gender-diverse. But this is a good example of the sort of thing she'd like to avoid. Needlessly insulting people ("douchetards" etc), saying that women can't be as good as men and that's just a reality that we have to accept, and saying that negativity is just the price of entry to the internet. Exactly what would make her leave a forum and never come back. A feeling I fully sympathize with.

The "hee hee" at the end of my "douchetards" comment was meant to be a j/k, poking fun comment. Next time I'll include the appropriate emoticon to drive the point home (see what I did there?)

See, here's the problem I have with this discussion. I point out a reality, a biological fact--men are genetically built to be physically stronger and faster --and somehow, I offend your sensibilities by bringing it up. By virtue of me being male, does that make me automatically physically superior to ALL women? Of course not. Wargaming is not an exclusively male pasttime, but it is dominated by males. You would say because they're excluded, they're not welcome by people like me. I would say that it is not a pursuit that interests women because they have not historically been interested in simulations of warfare. It historically has not been a part of their experience as a gender.

Women and men are different. They have different interests and different genetic predispositions. Are there exceptions? Yes. But these women are exceptions for a reason, just not the one you seem to be conditioned to point out.

BTW, I do find it kind strange that you refer to your wife as "sensitive" and portray her as this wilting flower that has difficulty with the adversity and potential negativity of an Internet forum. It's almost as if you consider her weak and wish to protect her from all of us male troglodytes. Are you sure you're not projecting a bit?

Yep. Womynz ain't strong enough wot to lift up and paint them tough metal minis. Dey's better off staying in da kitchen and making sandwiches, cuz they small fingers can make sandwichez faster.

Seriously, way too hold back the advancement of society, moron. Also, please don't drag science into your sexist view of reality.

**office_waaagh**

Thanks again to everyone for the overwhelmingly positive response - Sadie appreciates all the kind words.

Cheers, you guys are awesome,
Jesse and Sadie

**koooaei**

jreilly89 wrote:

Seriously, way too hold back the advancement of society, moron. Also, please don't drag science into your sexist view of reality.

Well, there's some point in that. For example, my girlfriend likes to paint models but doesn't really like the actual gaming process. Neither does she like the grimdark aspect of the fluff while i find it cool. And from what i've seen it's a norm. It's the situation when one person says: "EEEEEW-" the other says: "AHA! Awesome". Weather we like it or not, men and women do have different approach to stuff in general. Not that you can't find tabletop gamer girls - they're just more rare than tabletop gamer guys for some reason.

Anywayz, i think that dakka is multi-dimensional enough for any personality to fit. Probably no need to form an all-girl society to feel comfortable. Just don't stick to the topics you don't like and you're good to go - enough other topics you'd really like.

**BrianDavion**

Look for the OP, ultimatly internet fourms are a place people share opinions. anything that people have strong opinions of (like a hobby they put time and money into) will on occasion get heated, likewise the internet does have the occasional trollish person. best advice I can give is that the internet isn't a good place for your wife (FOR ANYTHING) or give it a shot and try not to let herself feel too sensitive to things. we all mean well here...... well most of us

**jreilly89**

koooaei wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:

Seriously, way too hold back the advancement of society, moron. Also, please don't drag science into your sexist view of reality.

Well, there's some point in that. For example, my girlfriend likes to paint models but doesn't really like the actual gaming process. Neither does she like the grimdark aspect of the fluff while i find it cool. And from what i've seen it's a norm. It's the situation when one person says: "EEEEEW-" the other says: "AHA! Awesome". Weather we like it or not, men and women do have different approach to stuff in general. Not that you can't find tabletop gamer girls - they're just more rare than tabletop gamer guys for some reason.

Anywayz, i think that dakka is multi-dimensional enough for any personality to fit. Probably no need to form an all-girl society to feel comfortable. Just don't stick to the topics you don't like and you're good to go - enough other topics you'd really like.

That's fine. To be fair, I've found a lot of women are turned off because of the community, rather than the subject matter/content itself. My point was he was saying wargaming is only for men because they are better/stronger/faster and that's asinine unless you're a caveman.

**koooaei**

We're all cavemen to some extent

However, i think you have a point here. The community is sometimes jerky.

In my lfgs, which is a great friendly place on the whole, there's one guy who i can't recall not having started a screamy salty argument for even a single visit. He also likes walking around telling people their painting is garbage and that they should do it the other way. And that wh40k sux due to ballance and that he quit it for fantasy battle cause it's obviously much better. Even so, he's powergaming and raging even there. Personally, i find it amusing but others get upset from time to time.

I guess it's about the concentration of such people who willingly run around you in circles spoiling your gaming time. But that's aplicable not only for tabletop games, you know. Got to know how to deal with such people or at least how not to get them too seriously.

**EVIL INC**

jreilly89 wrote:
koooaei wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:

Seriously, way too hold back the advancement of society, moron. Also, please don't drag science into your sexist view of reality.

Well, there's some point in that. For example, my girlfriend likes to paint models but doesn't really like the actual gaming process. Neither does she like the grimdark aspect of the fluff while i find it cool. And from what i've seen it's a norm. It's the situation when one person says: "EEEEEW-" the other says: "AHA! Awesome". Weather we like it or not, men and women do have different approach to stuff in general. Not that you can't find tabletop gamer girls - they're just more rare than tabletop gamer guys for some reason.

Anywayz, i think that dakka is multi-dimensional enough for any personality to fit. Probably no need to form an all-girl society to feel comfortable. Just don't stick to the topics you don't like and you're good to go - enough other topics you'd really like.

That's fine. To be fair, I've found a lot of women are turned off because of the community, rather than the subject matter/content itself. My point was he was saying wargaming is only for men because they are better/stronger/faster and that's asinine unless you're a caveman.

I think calling him a moron and such was an example of the sort of way he doesnt want his wife to be treated.
I DO agree with your sentiment though. The models we move around on the table really arent THAT heavy. Even the forgeworld titans can be easily moved by a "weakling" (not to say women are weaklings of course.
The reason I think you see less women play is because historically, the majority of human societies have been rather misogynistic. Historically women have been taught from birth that it is not their place to meddle in war. it has nothing to do with strength (look at the bow and firearms or heck, even the sling. Skill, accuracy and spped play just as much a part as strength. This means it has to be a societal issue.
Fast forward to today.Women are holding jobs that used to be men only and outdoing many men at it. Holding their own. the same goes for the military and the corporate world.
Our hobbies seem to be one of the last "holdouts" of the misogynistic mind. Many men who feel inadequate dont want women invading their private "me time" where they can feel empowered. Often it is also because the players actually feel they are superio and women shouldnt play. Others feel that it emasculates them. Especially when they are out gamed by a woman. Personally, I am secure in my manhood and welcome women in the hobby as it gives a wider variety of opponents, often causes the "guys" to behave better and adds more $ to the community and companies to help keep them in business.

**Schlyne**

Most of the time, the tyranids group over on facebook is super helpful and friendly. Today I wanted to beat faces in for being juvenile and misogynistic.

One of the guys posted about how his gf said she wanted to play 40k and was excited and got some of the usual asinine responses.

Anyway, try facebook's Games Workshop Army Painters group. It's nothing but painting and modeling in there. It's also a great place to gawk at some fabulous looking models.

As for the gender in wargaming thing...I won't go into that, I went over a bunch of points about that in a thread about that a while back.

**melkorthetonedeaf**

Lol at

DarkLink wrote:

a number of top posters are openly female,

Go to the P&M forum! Best place on the internet! #1! (Also I want Tyranid earrings now).

**Furyou Miko**

http://jen-kollic.deviantart.com/art/Tyranid-Ripper-Earrings-30558367 Thar' gow.

**calamarialldayerrday**

Hey, if you want to set up a 40k Facebook group that is nice, I'd like to help. I would similarly enjoy a space like this, and I've had experience with large scale nice spaces on the internet. It's very doable.