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So I have an Imperium force of BA follower chapter, Inquisition & Militarum Tempestus (maybe a Imp Knight if I get the $$$ eventually) who have pretty cool lore which I have gone over pretty extensively with the fluff junkie at my local hobby store. I go there weekly, he is there like maybe once every 2 months... Last time he was there (last Saturday) I made sure everything was kosher except I forgot about 1 thing: my guys have been lost in the warp for a while & needed to sustain their tech in their fleet all on their own, and adapt to the changing threats they would find in the warp, so they have a few modification they would have made, or potentially used Xenos technology which I know the Adeptus Mechanicus would put a BIG hit out on the entire SM chapter for doing that if they found out, so I was thinking they would have killed off all their own Techmarines who were still loyal to the Omnissiah or AM and possibly hire Heretechs or like the local IT guy who's somehow not a SM or made of metal who hasn't been killed by the AM. Anywho I just want to know if it's fluff-friendly to say they essentially offer a safe haven for Heretechs who aren't friendly with Chaos so long as they maintain their tech stuff. Also, could the Chapter potentially have just learned how to maintain stuff on their own? I mean sure, not every marine is gunna be a Techmarine, but I'm sure if their Gellar Field held up for an extended period of time while they were in the warp a few adventurous SM's might have started tinkering with the bitz and gubbinz that run their Land-Raiding-Rhino-Raven-Melta-Pod-Bolter-whatever's.

If you have a better idea please explain, I like the concept of them either being on the run from, or keeping secretes from the AM, or at the very least not being on the best of terms with them, so if at all possible, don't change that, danke.

Harbouring enemies of the Imperium makes them at best Renegades, and likely due to be hunted down. Disgracing the machinery of the imperium with concepts such as innovation, unique design etc again is complete heresy, Freedom of thought in the imperium is something incredibly dangerous but actively commiting acts of heresy to the machine gods and harbouring those known to be enemies of the Imperium would be a long way out of line for even a marine chapter, especially one without sufficient repute to defend their acts prior to being destroyed.

The Relictors have gone renegade after having used chaos artefacts to aid the imperium, the fact they were still loyal at the time didnt serve in their defense. All relics were taken and they were forced on a century long crusade to repent for their "evil" acts. Even then they "repeat offended" coming into open warfare with the inquisition and being cast out.

I guess the point is, one heretical act will likely be seen as just the tip of the iceberg, and the chapter at best shunned, and at worse actively hunted for it.

They are renegades or still loyal?

yeah honestly reading your story my first thought was "this sounds more like the orgin tale of a chaos warband"

There is a degree of defense in the universal Eleventh Commandment (or in the Mechanicus' case, the Seventeenth Universal Law).

"or at least thou shalt not get caught doing it."

The problem is twofold. A fleet based chapter needs continueous maintenance. Some of this is unskilled - lifting, shifting, cleaning, polishing - but some needs trained personnel. In an astartes chapter, that either means Techmarines, or someone else from the Adeptus Mechanicus.

You can learn to maintain the mechanical parts of a bolter - I'd assume any marine can - because it's just a gun, albeit made to a larger-than-life scale out seriously exotic alloys. But the electronics, autosenses and cogitator systems of power armour? A Gellar field? That's into decades-of-study level.

Techmarines learn by going on pilgrimage to Mars. So Mars, ultimately, is going to know that you haven't sent them any Techmarine Initiates to train. Maybe you don't have anyone ready for such studies, but you also haven't asked for human enginseers and magi to cover a shortfall. So who's maintaining your ships?

That said, Heretek is a Mechanicus definition that's much like Heretic. It's a mistake to cast the Mechanicus as any more monolithic or consistant than the Inquisition. Around the edges, as with the Inquisition, sits "Radical" - there are mechanicus factions who do occasionally poke xenos technology and get away with it; because the Forge World's ruling Archmagos has radical leanings and covers for them, because they do work on behalf of the Ordo Xenos, etc, etc.

People like this would not necessarily throw up their arms at the thought of marines using xenotech to replace or enhance their gear provided said marines are still genuinely loyal (although they'd be suspicious of such). An inquisitor would make a good ally as he has the influence to help shield them, and an astartes chapter is a useful asset for said inquisitor to have.

It's all a matter of perspective. A Puritan Ordo Malleus inquisitor, for example, might not see using xenotech to fight Daemons as heretical. A bit radical, maybe, but certainly a better idea than using sorcery and bound daemons of your own. An ordo Xenos Puritan might disagree...

Of course, "spent X centuries lost in the warp" is a far more important reason for said inquisitor to spend some time poking them with the purity-o-meter....

Also, note that just as there are different perspectives amongst the Mechanicus and the Inquisition with regards to Xenotech, so you'll see the same difference in perspectives mirrored amongst techmarines. A techmarine who indentured under a borderline radical Archmagos on the forgeworld of Letspokeitwithastickandsee IV is going to return to his chapter with a different view of xenos technology to one who spent the same decades studying on Burnitandletusneverspeakofthisabominationagain VI. So it's not impossible that some, or even most, of the chapter's techmarines (possibly reluctantly) agreed to the "let's use xenotech" plan. After all, someone did the initial modifications, and that someone would have had to be someone with mechanicus training who was part of the fleet lost in the warp - i.e. a chapter techmarine.

locarno24 wrote:
Heretek is a Mechanicus definition that's much like Heretic. It's a mistake to cast the Mechanicus as any more monolithic or consistant than the Inquisition. Around the edges, as with the Inquisition, sits "Radical" - there are mechanicus factions who do occasionally poke xenos technology and get away with it; because the Forge World's ruling Archmagos has radical leanings and covers for them, because they do work on behalf of the Ordo Xenos, etc, etc.

It's not like the AdMech doesn't study captured Xenos technology. They just do it very very slowly, carefully, with all safeguards in place. And it's not left to Acolytes Groucho and Harpo but some real highranking Magos who has demonstrated his trustworthyness before. After all, understanding how it works is also the key to finding a defense or at least issuing safety guidelines to Imperial forces that might come into contact with it. So being a Heretek isn't just about studying proscribed tech, it's just as much (or more) about studying and using it without official approval.

Another idea for why modified tech is being used - AdMech explorator vessel. They do send out entire fleets of their own to search for lost tech, but sometimes make a deal with a Rogue Trader or fleet-based Marine Chapter to have a vessel tag along. The AdMech vessel is a great boon - TechPriests capable of maintaining your ships and equipment is always good, and they might even forge new equipment if raw materials are found. And all they ask is that they be allowed to examine and claim lost tech for the AdMech. The exact deal can ofc vary from case to case. But if the Explorator vessel with these marines is led by a more radical Magos... who knows what he would consider acceptable for survival, and what he could convince the TechMarines of?

Oh, absolutely. The adeptus mechanicus are always completely careful. Their precautions never look like they came from the health and safety division of the Weyland-Yutani corporation.

Except the Naogeddon expedition(s).
And Anphelion base.
And Ganymede.
And the Quadravidia research facility.
And....yeah. I'ts a long list.

In their defence, Archmagos tend to be really smart. Which means when they meet something they're not prepared to handle, it tends to be because it's really, really, really dangerous.
They do tend to be arrogant so-and-sos though.


But no, some do actually try and disassmble, understand and duplicate xenotech. It's stated that some of the Grey Knight's unique hardware is based on xenotech, for example, and the functional description of photon thruster weapons sounds suspiciously like darklight weaponry. The old Explorator Warbands article for inquisitor talked about how there was a debate as to whether xenos technology didn't have machine spirits (i.e. intolerable) or had machine spirits shackled and maltreated (potentially cleansable if used 'properly'). One example from the Deathwatch RPG is essentially a reverse-engineered version of a stealth field generator designed to interface with powered armour.

I agree with what you're saying, but it's the 'official approval' that's key. Peers of the Imperium - rogue traders, Inquisitors, and ruling Archmagos can get away with this sort of stuff, and have the influence to protect people doing so for them...

 Melcavuk wrote:
Harbouring enemies of the Imperium makes them at best Renegades, and likely due to be hunted down. Disgracing the machinery of the imperium with concepts such as innovation, unique design etc again is complete heresy,

This is often overstated, since there are multiple examples of newer technology and innovated items appearing. Utilizing xenotechnology or anything tainted or heretical would be a big no-no. But there was an entire founding of Space Marines, the 21st, that was predicated on trying to improve the process, including an attempt to repair the defective geneseed of the Blood Angels. So there isn't some absolute proscription on innovation. Most of it is just based on deep superstition or a lack of complete knowledge on how some things function. Creating better bolt rounds, for example, is an innovation. Hellfire ammunition was innovated to combat Tyranids. The boltguns used by the Deathwatch were developed in M36. So there isn't a complete absence of innovation in the Imperium. Will there be suspicion and attempts at oversight? Sure.

As far as the OP's idea, seems a bit sketchy for a loyal chapter. A Techmarine is still a Battle Brother and a carrier of the Chapter's geneseed. Sanctioning their murder is a pretty extreme deed. Who authorized it? Who signed off on it? Did the Chapter's own internal agencies agree? The Chaplains? Why? The Apothecarion? Why?

The reason why only a tiny fraction of Space Marine Chapters go rogue is that there is so many internal control measures. A Chapter Master may have command authority on matters of war, he doesn't on matters of faith and loyalty.

With that in mind, how do the Chaplains feel about the use of heretical technology and harboring heretics? How do the Librarians, for that matter?

This is often overstated, since there are multiple examples of newer technology and innovated items appearing.

What the High Lords of Terra do behind closed doors, or the Mechanicus themselves do can often be at odds with what is "the law" though. high lords want to play with geneseed? fine. Chapter does it? Burn every last one of them for heresy.

There is a vast difference between the men in charge sanctioning a secret project, compared to a comparatively unimportant marine chapter disgracing their tech with heresy.

To summarise, the High Lords are Hypocrites, but like purging people.

Making a new variant of a vehicle (like how the baal predator and the annihilator where supposedly created...) isn't on the same level as using xeno technology. Way worse would be a modification of an STC vehicle with xeno/demon technology.
Fieldmodifications (e.g. the replacement of a broken weapon with a more common one... see shadowsword and it's many "adhoc" variants, and the Destroyer with it's Thunderer "downgrade") are acceptable and might get approved (after centuries of debate) from AM if they are successfull. Variants using xenostechnology will get them excommunicated however, AM will make sure that this heresy does not go unpunished. At the very least they will refuse to deliver new vehicles/weapons to them

Admech only studies xeno tech and then dismisses it as inferior to "omnissiah sanctioned tech"... that's just how it is.

About the custom background... sounds to me like its outright heresy. They killed their techpriests ffs and collaborated with Excommunicated. That's beyond whats acceptable. Why exactly do you need them to modify their own vehicles with warpcrap?
I just see no reason why their weapons and vehicles would have to be warpmodified. Regular fieldrepair/modification would be just enough, even in the warp.

Marines are said to be self sufficient to a degree, and vehicle/weapon repairs are the standardreportoire of the Techmarines and their serfs...

No matter how well intentioned your Chapter may well find themselves having slipped into Chaotic. "Just a little bit couldn't hurt" might aswell be the chaos tagline, they only worked with heretics for the betterment of man... maybe they only used that daemon sword to kill a chaos lord, maybe they only started to psychically (or sorcerously charge) modify their vehicles for the betterment of mankind. However when they have reached the stage where murdering their brothers in arms, in cold blood, just to do a little bit more they have become addicted to the power, the the risk of it all. When one brother turns upon another because he "stood in the way" they have long since fallen from grace and might never find their way home again.

one thing to consider, maintance IS done by basic "uneducated uninitated drones" the higher functions, higher learning etc is the soul providance of the adepts of Mars obviously, but if you need to tigheten the bolts on a machine every week. hand a chapter serf a wrench and tell him "alright every friday go give this bolt a tighten" is perfectly normal. after all, you don't think all the poor schlubs in Manifectoriums are fully fledged members of the Machine cult do you? Basicly if it's a routine task done by rote then you can have flunkies set up to do it.

Just remember, it's only heresy if you get caught.