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I recently played a guy and I think he may have been cheating, although not intentionally. He moved his Land Raider Redeemer (it was a FW model with Ceramite Plating and Flamestorm Cannons) at Cruising Speed, so 12". He then fired the Assault Cannons at full BS, his two Flamestorm Cannons as normal Templates, and a Multi Melta at full BS. Now, unless FW has some off rules, he should have fired everything as snapshots and then one template, so he could not fire the other, correct? Again, it was a FW model and I'm not sure, but even on a regular Redeemer, you cannot snapshot templates, right?

...why didn't you ask him at the time he did it?

You could have said, "Is that a fast vehicle, or something, because vehicles that move that far have to snap shoot a lot of stuff."
Then, two things could have happened:
1) He shows you his cool FW rules that let him do that.
2) He says, "ummmm..." and you whip out the BRB and show him the vehicle movement/shooting chart, and explain that templates can't snap shoot.

Again, it's always fine for you to ask for clarification during the game if your opponent's "special rules" seem fishy.

He could have fired 1 weapon at full BS, possibly at a separate target, and every other weapon at snap shots.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
...why didn't you ask him at the time he did it?

You could have said, "Is that a fast vehicle, or something, because vehicles that move that far have to snap shoot a lot of stuff."
Then, two things could have happened:
1) He shows you his cool FW rules that let him do that.
2) He says, "ummmm..." and you whip out the BRB and show him the vehicle movement/shooting chart, and explain that templates can't snap shoot.

Again, it's always fine for you to ask for clarification during the game if your opponent's "special rules" seem fishy.

Probably should have, but he's a guy I never see often and it was a team game, so I was like "whatever" and just rolled with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
He could have fired 1 weapon at full BS, possibly at a separate target, and every other weapon at snap shots.

But again, can you snapshot templates?

Using potms he could fire a template, because potms doesn't snapfire, it's full ballistic. But, the other template couldn't fire because temps can't snap fire.

Do fw have a land raider that can take ceramite?

The Redeemer isn't a FW Land Raider. He may have taken the Ceramite Plating upgrade from another LR (such as the Achilles or Spartan) that is FW, but that would be illegal, as it is not in the unit entry for the Redeemer.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The Redeemer isn't a FW Land Raider. He may have taken the Ceramite Plating upgrade from another LR (such as the Achilles or Spartan) that is FW, but that would be illegal, as it is not in the unit entry for the Redeemer.

It wasn't a Redeemer, but it had the Flamer-style templates. I think it was the Achilles pattern.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The Redeemer isn't a FW Land Raider. He may have taken the Ceramite Plating upgrade from another LR (such as the Achilles or Spartan) that is FW, but that would be illegal, as it is not in the unit entry for the Redeemer.

It wasn't a Redeemer, but it had the Flamer-style templates. I think it was the Achilles pattern.

The Achilles has a Thunderfire Cannon, 2x Twin-Linked Multimeltas, a transport capacity of 6, no Assault Ramp, and the Ferromantic Invulnerability special rule.

The only tank that FW has that can have redeemer cannons and Armored Ceramite is the Legion Land Raider from 30k or the Mechanicum Land Raider from 30k. None of them can fire all their guns at full BS while moving - only one extra.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
...why didn't you ask him at the time he did it?

You could have said, "Is that a fast vehicle, or something, because vehicles that move that far have to snap shoot a lot of stuff."
Then, two things could have happened:
1) He shows you his cool FW rules that let him do that.
2) He says, "ummmm..." and you whip out the BRB and show him the vehicle movement/shooting chart, and explain that templates can't snap shoot.

Again, it's always fine for you to ask for clarification during the game if your opponent's "special rules" seem fishy.

Probably should have, but he's a guy I never see often and it was a team game, so I was like "whatever" and just rolled with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
He could have fired 1 weapon at full BS, possibly at a separate target, and every other weapon at snap shots.

But again, can you snapshot templates?

If you read the Snap-shot rules you'd have your answer. No, templates and blasts can't be snap fired.

With a normal vehicle, you fire everything as snap-shots when moving at cruising speed. Power of the Machine spirit lets you fire one more additional weapon at full BS. Also, template weapons cannot fire snap shots.

So, his options would have been:

1) Full ballistic skill on the AC, Snap shots on the MM, nothing from the flamestorm cannons.
2) Full ballistic skill on the MM, snap shot on the AC, nothing from the flamestorm cannons
3) Fire 1 flamestorm cannon, snap shoot the MM, snap shoot the AC.

There is nothing, though, that would allow him to fire both flamestorm cannons at cruising speed, unless he had a separate special rule letting him do so.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
...why didn't you ask him at the time he did it?

You could have said, "Is that a fast vehicle, or something, because vehicles that move that far have to snap shoot a lot of stuff."
Then, two things could have happened:
1) He shows you his cool FW rules that let him do that.
2) He says, "ummmm..." and you whip out the BRB and show him the vehicle movement/shooting chart, and explain that templates can't snap shoot.

Again, it's always fine for you to ask for clarification during the game if your opponent's "special rules" seem fishy.

Probably should have, but he's a guy I never see often and it was a team game, so I was like "whatever" and just rolled with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
He could have fired 1 weapon at full BS, possibly at a separate target, and every other weapon at snap shots.

But again, can you snapshot templates?

If you read the Snap-shot rules you'd have your answer. No, templates and blasts can't be snap fired.

I know, I was meanng about anything special about FW. I probably should have made that clearer


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AnFéasógMór wrote:
With a normal vehicle, you fire everything as snap-shots when moving at cruising speed. Power of the Machine spirit lets you fire one more additional weapon at full BS. Also, template weapons cannot fire snap shots.

So, his options would have been:

1) Full ballistic skill on the AC, Snap shots on the MM, nothing from the flamestorm cannons.
2) Full ballistic skill on the MM, snap shot on the AC, nothing from the flamestorm cannons
3) Fire 1 flamestorm cannon, snap shoot the MM, snap shoot the AC.

There is nothing, though, that would allow him to fire both flamestorm cannons at cruising speed, unless he had a separate special rule letting him do so.

Thank you. That was what I looking for. I knew about normal vehicle rules, but I wasn't sure if he had anything special. I probably should have asked him, but I didn't really care that much, the guy left to go back to college, so I only ever had the 1 game with him

I'm sure no FW landraider has any special rules regarding snap shots.

There was a formation of BA Landraiders that were fast though. They, however, did not have access to ceremite plating. Not even sure if the formation is even valid anymore TBH.

I thought land raiders had Power of the Machine Spirit? I don't have a rule book or codex on me right now so I don't know.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Grey-Knights/GREY-KNIGHTS-LAND-RAIDER-REDEEMER-COMPLETE-KIT.html

Basically the same as a regular redeemer, except it has a pyscannon instead of assault cannon and promethium flamers with are STR 6 ap 3, ignores invuln saves.

Its in imperial armor vol 2 2nd edition

Techinically its a Vortimer Pattern Land Raider

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
I thought land raiders had Power of the Machine Spirit? I don't have a rule book or codex on me right now so I don't know.

They do, but PotMS just lets them fire one more weapon than usual at full ballistic skill (so 1 at cruising speed and 2 at combat speed), and that weapon may be fired at a different target than the others. So he still would have been able to fire, at most, one flamestorm cannon, and then only if he snap shot the MM and AC.

Also, on that note, what would be everyone's general opinion as to whether or not you can still fire one of the Land Raiders weapons at a separate target even when you didn't move?