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I was just wondering how this build does, as it sounds very enjoyable to play. I've picked up that it's not competitve, but I just want insight as to why. It seems like Orks have access to some pretty cheap walkers, and can shield the walkers with KFF pretty easily. What is it that makes a build with lots of Killa Kans, Deff Dreads, and Naughts uncompetitive? (I'm not advocating this build, just wondering what problems it has)

Simply put it gets glanced to death.

It's solid for when you don't play against tournament lists. But it's pretty vulnerable to AT weapons. And people bring lots of AT weapons to deal with MC and IK lately. It's also not great vs hordes as walkers are super easy to tarpit.

If you're gona run a dread mob, consider taking a warboss. Run + Charge is great for them.

Yup. Any opponent equipped to handle heavy armour, and most are, will have relatively little difficulty wiping out kanz. KFF will help you, sure, but not enough :(

i plan on takeing a dredmob of mine to a tourny near the end of the year, but until then i will be testing it out against the tournament lists of my friends who are planning to go to.
i dont know quite why people call the list uncompetitive, but if you do try it, try to figure what the meta for your opponents is. are they super melee?(then support your walkers with mekgunz, hold them back and pick at them until they are hurt bad, then charge into combat) are they super ranged? (then stack up those kff and pay the extra for the mega force field, and waaaaghboss them right into their face).

study what walkers work best against what units. i found out killakanz wreck nornal infantry and even basic spacemarine squads, but i avoid running them at termies and drednaughts (kanz are still decent against vehicles in melee as long as it isnt a landraider). i often use them as objective grabbers and campers while my other walkers do most of the fightin (makes sense since grots are often cowardly,even if they are inside big walking death machines ).

Only good list will wreck the Kans and dreads with meltas and glances... Good lists are prepared for multiple dreadknights and multiple imperial Knights which are way better than ork walkers... Fun to build, paint and play casually? Definately, but not competitive

Let's be honest, no one expects a low model count Ork force

I'm just putting the finishing touches on my Dread Mob Formation. ~1.5k for 16 models
Really looking forward to getting it on the table.

The actual Dreadmob formation can actually do better than most here think. It isn't that it can't be glanced to death, its that the list renders a lot of shooting moot, and then has a lot of HP (behind Kustom or Mega Force-field save) to get through... And in the formation, your ability of Waaagh, and have 'Ere We Go, means you can assault everything Turn 2 during a Dawn of War deployment.

And in assault, that is a lot of hits, etc... and if you have delivered a couple Melee-centric Deff-Dreads to the enemy intact, they will usually do a ton of work.

 grendel083 wrote:
Let's be honest, no one expects a low model count Ork force

I'm just putting the finishing touches on my Dread Mob Formation. ~1.5k for 16 models
Really looking forward to getting it on the table.

SNAP!
mines coming together nicely

I was wondering what people thought about in a larger game using the remaining points to grab some footsloggas, then use the Finkin Cap to go for the scout trait from the BRB, scout the boyz blobs and aim to try and tie up enemy units for a turn or two while your walkers get up the table?

Solar Shock wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
Let's be honest, no one expects a low model count Ork force

I'm just putting the finishing touches on my Dread Mob Formation. ~1.5k for 16 models
Really looking forward to getting it on the table.

SNAP!
mines coming together nicely

I was wondering what people thought about in a larger game using the remaining points to grab some footsloggas, then use the Finkin Cap to go for the scout trait from the BRB, scout the boyz blobs and aim to try and tie up enemy units for a turn or two while your walkers get up the table?

I normally play around 2k points, so that leaves about 500pts to play with.

For comedy value, I was considering Grukk's formation from Sanctus Reach.
That's the Warboss sorted for Waaagh!'s and another x3 Kans (rubbish weapon choice though). Plus the whole formation Deepstrikes on T1, which is just hilarious

I may be mistaken, but when I remember looking at the dread mob formation back when it came out, it did say that "all models with the 'ere we go special rule get to run and charge", but there wasn't anything that I recall that specifically granted 'ere we go to the walkers.

Are you guys certain the walkers get 'ere we go? I will double check my book when I get home, but I don't think the walkers did.

Competitively, though, I've tried the IA8 dreadmob formation in a tournament before, around a 16 model count army, and I barely won a game (SM with 2x dev squads), soundly lost another (MC heavy nids list), and got absolutely crushed in the third (pretty standard tau list).

Slow, so it's hard to contest or claim objectives, shooting is basically non-existent, even with the expanded KFF bubble from the morkanaut it's difficult to protect everything (models, not units, are protected).

Not to mention that they're all HS, so it's really hard to take them outside the dreadmob formation or army without the HQ/troops tax for extra CADs.

I love ork walkers (9x deff dreads, 1x morkanaut, mega-dread, meka-dread, 12 x kans), like the love of a parent of a 1-legged child in a sports program. I may love them, but I'm well aware of their limitations.

The Dreadmob Formation (Waaagh! Ghazghkull supplement) grants the 'Ere We Go! rule as one of its bonuses.

Play Unbound. Bring 8 solo kanz.
A full unit can only kill one per turn.

I'll have to double-check that, that could make the formation potentially more useful. Far more so than the D3 hammer of wrath attacks.

Again, I don't recall anything that specifically granted 'ere we go to the walkers - all I recall was that it was listed. I remember specifically checking for that exact reason, but I've certainly made mistakes before.

The cool factor is oozing out the wazoo. but anyone army worth it salt would be able to deal with it.

Though if there was a Lot of intervening and LOS blockers you could do well. (make junkyard terrain)

arguably, even if you arnet running dredmob or the fw kind, you can still try your own version of a dredd mob with just the cad. orks are one of the few armies that has a realy cheep troop choice (makes multiple cad ork armies the easiest thing to accomplish). i even influenced a local sm player to try out a walker centric army with the rules for master of the forge, but beside that he doesn't have the ability to field a bunch of dreadnaughts because his troop choices are expensive.

the formation does get ear we go because the rule is in their dataslate, it just apply.

admittedly, the dredmob list i plan to take to a tournament is almost solely for fun, though i expect to surprise more than a few opponents with even bringing one. i mainly love this formation because it is what it is, a giant formation of walkers. i grew up with a supreme love of mecha, and being able to field a ton of them in one of my favorite armies is just worth the fight i might lose.

Nothing wrong with them.
It is just that current meta is heavily AT nowadays ...

Ork walkers are the definition of Rule of Cool in my book. I LOVE my walkers. I own 12 Killa Kanz, 2 Deff Dreads and 1 Morkanaught with the intention of at least 1 more Deff and adding a Gorkanaught to the roster. They are solid overall for their points. They are fairly sturdy, decent weapon options, and look awesome.

Their issue is not themselves, but the current Anti Tank mentality of the game. There is SO much anti tank avail that it leaves very little room for walkers on a competitive level. They can be one shotted with very little effort due to the sheer spamability of Melta and Plasma.

Despite this, I rock out my Walkers more than I should. I only among the gaming group at my store, tournaments are not a thing for 40k because everyone agrees it's a crapshoot. (There is no arguing it, 40k is NOT a game suited for tournaments). They simply require the proper support, just like any other unit. Bring KFF support, and bring some other distractions to help redirect gunfire so they can get into combat/shooting range quicker.

I absolutely LOVE my list, and find it very competitive actually.

Like any Ork army should, the Blunders I've had are EPIC in scale. Like the game where my opponent draws the D3 VPs for killing the warlord, just to have my very first shot from my Warlords Shokk Attack Gun roll double 1s and give up 5 VPs.

I currently run the Full 18 Kans, 2 Dredds, and a Morkanaut. The 18 Kans, while they are susceptible to being glanced off, are still impressive. The effective 36 Wounds that are immune to S4 is a scary sight. They have some overlooked advantages as well. The extended coherency makes them less susceptible to blasts, and give you excellent coverage across your line. I've even had games where they are stepping on each other's toes more than an infantry heavy army. The six Kan unit size means that they can 'Circle up' forcing fast, or Deep Striking armies against the Front Armor no matter what they do.

The biggest advantage I've seen is that with such a high number of Kans, that it's difficult for my opponents to choose between them and the other Walkers. No one wants to deal with Kans in CC, so they will tend to Ignore the Dredds and Naut. It's a win-win for us. Even Marines are dropped down to Grenades, and take heavy losses, and their low AV prevents the use on 'Our weapons are Useless' vs. most competitive armies.

One thing the army is NOT good at is just running toward the enemy. You really have to keep in mind what and where the objectives are at all times. This is where I am having Frustration in the Tourney scene. The scenarios used in the big events like the LVO, BAO, FOB, Adept... Are written to strive for balance. It's a noble effort, but in an environment that is leaning toward a Rock-Paper-Scissors, armies like mine stand less of a chance w/o the randomness.

For this reason I've stayed away from Tourneys for the most part. I've helped a few players practice, but in short find that the scenarios restricted my ability to be competitive more than this list. ( It's my opinion, so don't troll me.) When I get the thing finished, I might take it to an event for the sheer fact that every opponent I play will remember my army vs. the cookie lists. Right now, I'm still looking for an event that will stop trying to incorporate older editions.

Have you had any thoughts on running that many kanz in a CAD?

I have twelve, nine unassembled, I've been thinking of ways to saturate high str ap2 shooting and am always open to new ideas

 Rismonite wrote:
Have you had any thoughts on running that many kanz in a CAD?

I have twelve, nine unassembled, I've been thinking of ways to saturate high str ap2 shooting and am always open to new ideas

I'm not sure about how well Kanz will work for Ap 2 platforms. I think you'd be better of with Mek Gunz in the form of Kustom Mega Kannonz. You get S8 AP2 blasts at grot shooting as well, but they are T7 grots, which can in ways be a bit better than armor. They can't be one shotted like Kanz due to explosions affecting vehicles. Kanz using Kustom Mega Blastas is kinda a waste. You want to run in with them, get them in close and wreck light vehicles or shoot up infantry squads with Grotzookas/Flamers.

Not sure if that was directed at me or not.

I'm going to be running a dual CAD list as the work slowly progresses on Grot Conversions. I'm running Unbound right now and I inform my opponents that it's only because I don't have Enough Grotz, so they're cool with it.

The main reason that I went for the dual CAD is for the synergy between the Walkers. The 2 Dredds help with the Grot Tests, while the Naut provides a KFF to the Dredds. Mono CAD, I've found that 2 Units of Kanz and a Dredds works pretty well if you wanted to use that to support a normal Ork force. I'll just as easily run 3 units of Kanz, but it becomes a 1-trick pony and you ended up failing tests.

If you're looking for the AP2 platforms, I will agree that the Mek Guns are the way to go. I've tried to Triple CAD it up to add them as they would compliment the Force very well, but I'm strapped for HS slots and the points sink for HQ and Grots is just enough to not get what I want.

I've been plagued by saying/typing the wrong thing lately. I meant saturate enemy fire. Like lots of Kanz that the enemy wants to shoot with high str weapons and then support with things that also draw high str/ap2 fire like Meganobz or battlewagonz

Oh Games Workshop how do I hate thee? Let me count the ways...

1. Kan Klaw nerf
2. Kans and Dreds and Nauts and Lootas all heavy support
3. Kan cost increase
4. Cowardly grots

 doktor_g wrote:
Oh Games Workshop how do I hate thee? Let me count the ways...

1. Kan Klaw nerf
2. Kans and Dreds and Nauts and Lootas all heavy support
3. Kan cost increase
4. Cowardly grots

Don't forget, if you take a Dread Mob formation, you are STUFFED if you roll "Big Guns Never Tire" as Formation units retain their Battlefield Roll

But there are still plenty of Pluses:
When a Kan tears a Terminator in two during combat, remind your opponent that it's crewed by a GROT.
Extra Spikey Bitz!
You get to shout into a Pringles tube, for that "Deff Dread sound effect".
Grotzookas! For some reason no one is scared of them, until they open fire! Then remind your opponent that it's crewed by a GROT.

A bunch of scared GROTS in a tin kan that roll around pulling random handles.

is it worth even considering other options to the grotzooka? Str 6, 2 blasts.... errrr..... YUM! high enough strength to threaten light vehicles, can hit stuff in open topped vehicles too. Plus is a nice Str 6 when blasting infantry!

I am considering 3 plasma kanz as part of my dread formation. But I mean, 3 shots at BS3, is only like 1.5 hits a turn. Some turns quite likely I'll miss altogether. Atleast with the zookas your getting 6 shots which even when they 'miss' can still hit other stuff.

I'm putting 3 lots of 3 kans together for my Dreadmob.
3 Grotzookas, 3 Rokkits, 3 Blastas

Might not be the most competitive, but I like variety!
The Grotzooka is certainly my favourite. Rokkits are decent all rounders, but really you need at least Ap2 to blow up a vehicle nowadays, so I think at least one mob of Blastas is worth a try.

 grendel083 wrote:

You get to shout into a Pringles tube, for that "Deff Dread sound effect".

I'm trying this when I get home

Like folks have said previously, dread mobs suffer from having a hard counter in the form of ranged anti-tank units. I think the solution here is simple - having a combined-arms force that takes advantage of what makes dreads potent while still providing the enemy with a large number of threats to worry about, one of the biggest strengths of Orks as a faction IMO.

Even a small addition like one or two dreadnoughts with units of killa kans can be a solid core of walker support for a more shooting/counter-assault focused infantry army. They can be made a bit more resilient by bringing a KFF or the like (especially the relic one from W!G). I've had solid results with the mini-dreadmob, using it to shore up a firing line against attacking infantry and assault vehicles that will struggle to hurt walkers in CC, or pushing them forward to force the enemy back while the rest of the army controls the field.

Would be nice if we got a detachment that allowed some extra heavy support, but it's not like the detachment bonuses are 100% necessary - unbound is definitely one way to go, secondary detachments with Ork Horde and W!G are another.

Solar Shock wrote:
is it worth even considering other options to the grotzooka? Str 6, 2 blasts.... errrr..... YUM! high enough strength to threaten light vehicles, can hit stuff in open topped vehicles too. Plus is a nice Str 6 when blasting infantry!

YES!!!
Grotzookas - They are really good, but they have a few drawbacks. Overwatch and Range. The Range can be limiting and often times don't do much on 1st Turn if my opponent forces me to deploy first. As good as they are, don't expect more than 1 Turn of shooting in most games. Fast moving units like beasts, bikes, jump, and OT assault units are able to easily avoid the GZ altogether by tying them up in assault.

Pretty sure you're thinking of Template Weapons hitting stuff inside an OT vehicle.

Big Shootas - I was pleasantly surprised at how effective a unit with all Big Shootas is, and have kept one unit that way. The range and # of shots is worth keeping so that you're doing more than sitting around for a turn before the Grotzookas do much. Also the best weapon for Overwatch.

Rokkits - these are the one weapon that I mix in my units, and have found that 2 is generally enough. Sure they're only AP3, but having the S8 to at least threaten transports is better than having no option. Not worth it to run full units of them though.

Blasta - same as Rokkits, and I'd happily sub them out for Rokkits. The Gets Hot thing on a 2HP model is my reason for not taking them. Sure the AP 2 is nice, I just can't justify the cost.

Skorcha - No, just don't even bother. You're pretty much bringing these for when you get charged.