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Swastakowey wrote: Yea but as I said they are outliers. Normally by circumstance.
You are twisting the evidence to suggest ramming was a viable tactic all the time.
Ramming a submarine is different, still risky but a dent in a submarine will kill it/render it useless. A dent in a warship can be solved.
Viable tactic doesnt mean a good one, just one that can work. Its viable for me to kill someone with my bare fists, but if I can use something different I will, like a base ball bat.
Its viable for me to ram a sub if I cant use my guns or have no other options. Its not viable for me to go out of my way to ram a destroyer with an aircraft carrier.
Ramming in a warship will 99% of the time result in a loss of your job I assure you. Ramming a sub is stupid, but if you have to do it then yes it has more chance of working.
In short, its still dumb as hell and is not frequent enough to allow ramming as a powerful tool (as indicated by the trailer).
As I said even the fact and aircraft carrier is close enough to ram another ship is bonkers as it is.
The large vessel may care if you ruin its propellers, rudder or even remotely damage the hull. Yes I do think an aircraft carrier will care if its ramming destroyers. Especially given how expensive and valuable they are.
Its not like everyone is going voluntarily allow you to get close enough to ram
A Dark Angel fell on a watcher in the Dark Shroud silently chanted Vengance on the Fallen Angels to never be Unforgiven
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
What tank? I've seen a few tier 6 scouts in tier 10 battles but everything else has been at least a tier 8 that I have seen.
This was in the beta. The matchmaker was slightly improved to limited most tanks to 2 tiers but in reality a tier 5 medium will be able to do nothing to a tier 7 heavy in normal situations except perhaps shower it with shrapnel and eviscerated crew. On top of that player skill isn't taken into account which means that far too many games are completely one sided and/or massively frustrating. The shoddy matchmaker is the main reason I don't play WoT anymore and I am currently pinning my hopes for good tank on tank action to Armoured warfare.
I am interested in WoWS (what is the correct acronym?) but if the matchmaker is anything like WoT I will not be spending much time with it and I certainly will not be spending any money.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/14 14:21:05
There are some 2 tier matchups that don't lose out too much. My crusader is one (love that taaaaank). Then there is KV2s/ KV85s 1 shotting almost any tier 4 tank they roll up on. Which just kills it as the tier 4 driver, unless you were in a luchs and could bail.
Don't get me wrong I enjoy the game, but it has its issues. Also, I nabbed a beta access too, should get to play tomorrow
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/14 14:36:14
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
There are some 2 tier matchups that don't lose out too much. My crusader is one (love that taaaaank). Then there is KV2s/ KV85s 1 shotting almost any tier 4 tank they roll up on. Which just kills it as the tier 4 driver, unless you were in a luchs and could bail.
Don't get me wrong I enjoy the game, but it has its issues. Also, I nabbed a beta access too, should get to play tomorrow
Luchs, A20, M5 Stuart. It's just a matter of getting to weak spots.
Welp, just got my first Battleship. NOW we are talking. I really need to learn how to use this bad boy, I mean, 30 second reloads? Oh boy, you better make every shot count.
"Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth! These are the truths of this world! Surrender to these truths, you pigs in human clothing!" - Satsuki Kiryuin, Kill la Kill
Luchs, A20, M5 Stuart. It's just a matter of getting to weak spots.
T34/76 Vs T29 GO!
The real issue is the huge HP boost that tiers provide which coupled with the inevitably better armour and firepower in higher tiers puts lower tier vehicles at a huge disadvantage. certain tanks can mitigate this to a degree (My KV-2 can do a huge amount of damage to tier 8s for example) but in general its terrible game design.
Closed beta applications are now closed >/
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/14 15:34:40
Luchs, A20, M5 Stuart. It's just a matter of getting to weak spots.
T34/76 Vs T29 GO!
The real issue is the huge HP boost that tiers provide which coupled with the inevitably better armour and firepower in higher tiers puts lower tier vehicles at a huge disadvantage. certain tanks can mitigate this to a degree (My KV-2 can do a huge amount of damage to tier 8s for example) but in general its terrible game design.
Closed beta applications are now closed >/
This is the big flaw in WoT: the HP pools for tanks are just nonsensical and are the biggest problem in the tier spread.
My Tiger II can get T10 battles, and I can, with a little luck and good aim, pen a T10 tank.
and then do 5% damage.
The tiers usually provide decent benefits aside from the HP pool; better armour, guns, mobility, etc, but it's the HP pool that really defines things. The Tiger I, for instance, due to its tiering basically has no armour; everything can pen it at T6+, it only works due to a large HP pool, and easily angled due to boxyness to get some chance of deflecting shots. They've kind of "balanced" themselves into a corner with this; some tanks at present just wouldn't work with a smaller HP spread, and the profitability of most tanks at higher tiers with a lower power spread by tier would be totally ruined. The only reason their game model "works" is the tanks which hemorrhage money is that no matter what they'll usually live long enough to put some shots into something, which is frustrating as all hell for a lower tier tank who's done the smart thing, outflanked, attacked at opportune moments, has shots on the weakest armour and plink away 5-10% at a time and then die for their troubles.
Thankfully, from what it looks like, WoWs is moving away from that huge spread in effectiveness (everything within the same class is durable, and the mobility of cruisers and destroyers actually mean something with the maps not all being tunnels and shooting lanes), and WoWP already did; the HP spread was certainly there, but for all that game's faults, I felt player skill mattered a lot more than just what vehicle you're in.
Truth be told, I like War Thunder's game model more; no HP pools, but critical systems/crews for both planes and tanks, no bush invisibility, and their more recent add-on of the "pen-cam," where you see what your shells do to the enemy, and what the shell which killed you did to internal systems and crew in Arcade Mode is great; both lessons any feeling of a cheap kill, but also teaches tank weaknesses really well. The overarching system, however, is not to my liking; crew skills are glacial, and your "pool" of tanks or planes is shared, and as you can bring every vehicle you have into a game, the people with more of the right vehicle in their hanger have an immediate advantage in-game; they can respawn and fight several times more. "Realistic" mode eliminates that, but almost no one plays it and it takes forever to actually play a game. The game also suffers from a tiny roster of maps.
Therefore, I conclude, Valve should announce Half Life 2: Episode 3.
My main problem with Warthunder is that it has an inherent maphack. Turn graphics to low and all foliage and cover disappears, and you can bet your ass players use this all the time.
Go to 1.30 in that vid.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/15 11:26:13
BaronIveagh wrote:The NDA has been lifted for everything AFTER alpha. So, here goes:
In the nice inversion of WOT everything Russian is gak. Expect this fixed soon with a flood of not even paper projects and nationalist wishful thinking.
Japan still has no carriers. The US still has no battleships. Predreadnought ships are now allowed, apparently. (see 'thread'nought on this subject in their forums way back in the day when the [replaced] devs swore 'Death before Pre-dreadnought')
The alpha reward ship is actually pretty sweet, being the only cruiser (so far) with a smoke generator. IJN and USN still have the wrong flag, told not a bug, but a design feature. (Both have 'modern' versions of their national flag instead of period flags or navy ensigns.)
Debate on if German battleships will be historical models or big metal X's will be placed on prows continues.
Does the Japanese ships have the emperor seal though? that could be considered offensive to people that felt the brunt of the Japanese invasion.
Personally i think they should keep it true to reality, i am against any form of censorship even if some things appall me.
Eh, as far as naval games go it certainly looks entertaining - about as much as WoT anyhow.
Then again, the naval games genre is pretty sparse when it comes to recent years, so I guess beggars can't be choosers - I'll check this out at some point.
Shadowkeepers (4000 points)
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BaronIveagh wrote: I've survived rams before. It's not hard, just remember it's sort of HP based.
You seem to be the knowledgeable go to guy for this game, so I have a few questions for you.
What tier will the lowest Japanese Carrier be? And what is the ship that he will branch out from? I'm guessing Tier 4 branching out from the Umikaze?
Can we control the spotter plane in anyway?
Also I'm getting better at leading my targets at extreme ranges, managed to one shot a Destroyer at 12+ km in my Kongo with a single shot fired yesterday! Torpedo that, beach!
BaronIveagh wrote:The NDA has been lifted for everything AFTER alpha. So, here goes:
In the nice inversion of WOT everything Russian is gak. Expect this fixed soon with a flood of not even paper projects and nationalist wishful thinking.
Japan still has no carriers. The US still has no battleships. Predreadnought ships are now allowed, apparently. (see 'thread'nought on this subject in their forums way back in the day when the [replaced] devs swore 'Death before Pre-dreadnought')
The alpha reward ship is actually pretty sweet, being the only cruiser (so far) with a smoke generator. IJN and USN still have the wrong flag, told not a bug, but a design feature. (Both have 'modern' versions of their national flag instead of period flags or navy ensigns.)
Debate on if German battleships will be historical models or big metal X's will be placed on prows continues.
Does the Japanese ships have the emperor seal though? that could be considered offensive to people that felt the brunt of the Japanese invasion.
Personally i think they should keep it true to reality, i am against any form of censorship even if some things appall me.
If you mean this:
Spoiler:
Yes, the ships do have them. I have noticed it on my Cruisers, but I admit I haven't looked for it on my Battleships.
And I HATE Destroyers. I don't seem to ever be able to hit them with a battleship at long range but the damn torpedos sure find me. I love my Myogi but damn, I'm so bad using it
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/16 11:37:53
"Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth! These are the truths of this world! Surrender to these truths, you pigs in human clothing!" - Satsuki Kiryuin, Kill la Kill
Yamamoto and her sister had rather large symbols like that, its how the Microsoft founder partly identified her sister ship.
That and the enormous anchors, too large for any other ship to need.
Anyone know if Royal Navy, German Navy and such will be put on the game, I like the idea but I'd want more variety in ships.
Ie like Tribal class, multi roles, gun hevey destroyers, or the slightly glass cannon HMS Hood.
I see the Russian fleet might be next, lol what hunks of scrap?
There fleet vs the big powered at time was pretty feeble.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/16 11:52:45
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
I suspect that WoWs will follow WoT with regards to nations.
WoT started with just Germany and the USSR but over time more German and Soviet tech trees have been added alongside 5 other nations with tech tress of varying densities.
As a self-proclaimed naval history buff, this game gets a big YAY from me!
I just got into the closed beta last night, and played a couple of quick matches with the starting ships this morning, and it looked and played really great. I can't wait to spend more time with it.
BaronIveagh wrote: FYI for them that don't know: Atlanta is a explosive spam machine Just keep firing for almost guaranteed disabled enemy ships. Damage though, not so great.
Kitakami should be the main character in another game, called God of Torps. 20 of them per broadside.
Yes, it WILL one shot a Yamato if you can get close enough.
Both of them will be in the 50-60 dollar range
Downside is that they fitted her with torps that had their development discontinued about a dozen years before Kitakami was ever made into a torp machine. They're short range. In real life Kitakami was fitted with Long Lances, which was the reason the USN did not face ten of them: not enough tubes to go around.
Which is one of the things that REALLY get my goat about this game. Saipan in particular. Saipan class were Korean War, they have them fitted with aircraft that were removed from service almost 20 years earlier.
Eh, this is part and parcel with the type of game that WG is making. Like WoT (I have no experience with WoP), WoWs looks like it is going to be arcade both in terms of game play, as well as historical points like the ones you point out above. The reason why they don't give the Kitikami Long Lances and the Saipan A-1 Skyraiders is one of balance, of course. So, while historical inaccuracies like this might annoy history buffs like you and me, it is probably for the best in terms of the game!
BaronIveagh wrote: I've survived rams before. It's not hard, just remember it's sort of HP based.
You seem to be the knowledgeable go to guy for this game, so I have a few questions for you.
What tier will the lowest Japanese Carrier be? And what is the ship that he will branch out from? I'm guessing Tier 4 branching out from the Umikaze?
Can we control the spotter plane in anyway?
Also I'm getting better at leading my targets at extreme ranges, managed to one shot a Destroyer at 12+ km in my Kongo with a single shot fired yesterday! Torpedo that, beach!
Ignore, misread your post.
Anyway, they haven't showed the Japanese Carrier tech path yet and Alpha features are still under NDA so he can't reveal them anyway.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/16 17:33:07
BaronIveagh wrote: IJN and USN still have the wrong flag, told not a bug, but a design feature. (Both have 'modern' versions of their national flag instead of period flags or navy ensigns.)
Debate on if German battleships will be historical models or big metal X's will be placed on prows continues.
The flag issue is understandable in the case of the IJN. While I personally like the Rising Sun design, it's still very touchy in that part of the world due to its relationship to World War 2 Japan.
I would imagine that there will also be an absence of Swastikas from the German ships.
My Tiger II can get T10 battles, and I can, with a little luck and good aim, pen a T10 tank.
and then do 5% damage.
I ran into a similar issue the other day. I was using the T4 US artillery vehicle, and managed to score direct hits on opposing enemy heavy tanks... for a whopping 8 damage.
After that, I basically said, "Screw it. Not worth the trouble."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/16 18:41:15
Clearly you are using the wrong artillery, because BERT THE AVENGER is the only artillery allowed. (for those wondering, it's the FV304 british Tier 6 arty)
Also, maybe an idea to make this a Wargaming topic in general? May be nice to have.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/16 18:48:17
Eh, this is part and parcel with the type of game that WG is making. Like WoT (I have no experience with WoP), WoWs looks like it is going to be arcade both in terms of game play, as well as historical points like the ones you point out above. The reason why they don't give the Kitikami Long Lances and the Saipan A-1 Skyraiders is one of balance, of course. So, while historical inaccuracies like this might annoy history buffs like you and me, it is probably for the best in terms of the game!
Actually, Kitakami's balance is horribly broken without them. BBs in it's tier and up have what effectively amounts to a damage aura 16km wide (due to long range secondaries + skills/mods). It's torps have a effective range of about 7km, meaning that bar using something as a shield, it's useless. I've managed to one shot Yamato's with it, but it takes stupid levels of blind luck. People have been bitching about it for some time, considering it''s a $70 ship. Saipan should be the Tier X, but for some reason Essex got bumped up instead.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
Soladrin wrote: Clearly you are using the wrong artillery, because BERT THE AVENGER is the only artillery allowed. (for those wondering, it's the FV304 british Tier 6 arty)
Also, maybe an idea to make this a Wargaming topic in general? May be nice to have.
BaronIveagh wrote: Saipan should be the Tier X, but for some reason Essex got bumped up instead.
I think it makes sense to have the Essex on top...they were bigger and could handle more aircraft. Objectively, they were more powerful ships. If anything, I would have liked to have the Midway class at the top of the heap!
Plus, just imagine the complaining if WG had made the Tier X American carrier a light carrier!
BaronIveagh wrote: Saipan should be the Tier X, but for some reason Essex got bumped up instead.
I think it makes sense to have the Essex on top...they were bigger and could handle more aircraft. Objectively, they were more powerful ships. If anything, I would have liked to have the Midway class at the top of the heap!
Plus, just imagine the complaining if WG had made the Tier X American carrier a light carrier!
Midway was going to be the T X. but for some reason they folded it back into Essex.
Actually i doubt there would be too much complaining what with the ASM and all. Carriers live and die in this game by being harder to find more than their team mates protection.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
Midway was going to be the T X. but for some reason they folded it back into Essex.
Actually i doubt there would be too much complaining what with the ASM and all. Carriers live and die in this game by being harder to find more than their team mates protection.
Interesting! I appreciate the insight. I haven't made it anywhere near that level of play; I'm still working towards my first Tier IIs . Makes me wonder if there might be a development down the road to split carriers out into fleet and light/escort lines...if the last few years playing WoT has taught me anything, its that tech trees are written in sand.
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