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oz of the north wrote:

xpress907 wrote:

oz of the north wrote:
My question is the Nightbringer and Deceiver seem nice, but with only a 6" move is there any way to make them more useful, a 6" move and then having to run, even with a 4++ I feel like in most cases they will be shot down before they can do anything of value.

Why yes there is, god shackle. It wont be getting the command benefits from your decurion but it does give the c'tan shard (either one you mentioned) a +1 to S and T, a variable feel no pain that starts at 5+++, and two cryptek buddies (which are upgradable with some items, one of which is a 2+ armor save and/or a veil of darkness). With veil, you can deepstrike anywhere on the board and solve that, 'but im sooooo slooooow' problem. Oh, did i mention that the crypteks get to use the c'tans toughness when the unit gets shot at?

EDIT: The source for 'Conclave of the Burning One' is in the 'Shield of Baal: Exterminatus' book.

Though with burning conclave you can only take a transcendent, this was mainly focusing on the 2 named shards, the nightbringer and deceiver.

Actually by RAW you can only bring the Nightbringer and Deceiver as they are formally named as C'tan Shards and the Trans isn't. Stupid eh.

Uhm, the opposite.
Conclave of the Burning One can only take a C'tan Shard, which excludes the Transcendent C'tan.
You might be confused because they did use the model.. Silly GW-writers/photographs.

Kangodo wrote:
Uhm, the opposite.
Conclave of the Burning One can only take a C'tan Shard, which excludes the Transcendent C'tan.
You might be confused because they did use the model.. Silly GW-writers/photographs.

Probably right, I just looked at quick, did not give full read. Was probably the fact they gave the pic of the trans. c'tan that got me messed up.

I would not be surprised if there was eventually a FAQ to allow any C'tan version to be part of it, but at the time yeah it's only the two.

changemod wrote:
Just ran a 2000 point Decurion up: Reclamation Legion is way too restrictive for my tastes. By the time I'd made every unit in it useful, I'd ran up over 900 points and only had room for two formations and a unit of Deathmarks.

Which is cool, I guess. Army wide 4+++ should make us a little predictable.

I'm now more interested in experimenting with a few all-formation armies that don't have the Decurion bonus. No Lychguard, Deathmarks, Flayed Ones or Tomb Blades doing it this way mind... But it should be good for some themed stuff such as a Destroyer Cult list with support elements that don't need to include basic troops without going unbound.

slightly off tangent, but the restrictions on the Decurion got me thinking.

The chance of you making your RP roll with a Mephrit Detachment is approximately 0.39, absent any modifiers, thanks to the rerolls of 1 on RP. The chance of you making your RP roll for Decurion is 0.5, absent any modifiers (aside from the army wide +1).

What are the thoughts on that? Is the restriction/tax for the 4+++ really worth it?

willow wrote:

changemod wrote:
Just ran a 2000 point Decurion up: Reclamation Legion is way too restrictive for my tastes. By the time I'd made every unit in it useful, I'd ran up over 900 points and only had room for two formations and a unit of Deathmarks.

Which is cool, I guess. Army wide 4+++ should make us a little predictable.

I'm now more interested in experimenting with a few all-formation armies that don't have the Decurion bonus. No Lychguard, Deathmarks, Flayed Ones or Tomb Blades doing it this way mind... But it should be good for some themed stuff such as a Destroyer Cult list with support elements that don't need to include basic troops without going unbound.

slightly off tangent, but the restrictions on the Decurion got me thinking.

The chance of you making your RP roll with a Mephrit Detachment is approximately 0.39, absent any modifiers, thanks to the rerolls of 1 on RP. The chance of you making your RP roll for Decurion is 0.5, absent any modifiers (aside from the army wide +1).

What are the thoughts on that? Is the restriction/tax for the 4+++ really worth it?

There is always the option of taking a Royal Court formation alongside a Mephrit cohort, and tossing crypteks into key units, giving them a 4+++ with a re-roll 1's ability.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

willow wrote:

changemod wrote:
Just ran a 2000 point Decurion up: Reclamation Legion is way too restrictive for my tastes. By the time I'd made every unit in it useful, I'd ran up over 900 points and only had room for two formations and a unit of Deathmarks.

Which is cool, I guess. Army wide 4+++ should make us a little predictable.

I'm now more interested in experimenting with a few all-formation armies that don't have the Decurion bonus. No Lychguard, Deathmarks, Flayed Ones or Tomb Blades doing it this way mind... But it should be good for some themed stuff such as a Destroyer Cult list with support elements that don't need to include basic troops without going unbound.

slightly off tangent, but the restrictions on the Decurion got me thinking.

The chance of you making your RP roll with a Mephrit Detachment is approximately 0.39, absent any modifiers, thanks to the rerolls of 1 on RP. The chance of you making your RP roll for Decurion is 0.5, absent any modifiers (aside from the army wide +1).

What are the thoughts on that? Is the restriction/tax for the 4+++ really worth it?

There is always the option of taking a Royal Court formation alongside a Mephrit cohort, and tossing crypteks into key units, giving them a 4+++ with a re-roll 1's ability.

This is one of the reasons I'm actually really excited for this edition, there's so many ways to put an army together. Formations, Decurion, CAD, Mephrit, or mix and match.

Also, you can get a similar benefit from the Decurion. Units from the Reclamation Legion within 12" of the Overlord from that same formation can reroll Reanimation rolls of 1. So it only works for Lychguard, Immortals, Warriors, or Tomb Blades (or the Overlord himself), but that's still a pretty good benefit.

willow wrote:

changemod wrote:
Just ran a 2000 point Decurion up: Reclamation Legion is way too restrictive for my tastes. By the time I'd made every unit in it useful, I'd ran up over 900 points and only had room for two formations and a unit of Deathmarks.

Which is cool, I guess. Army wide 4+++ should make us a little predictable.

I'm now more interested in experimenting with a few all-formation armies that don't have the Decurion bonus. No Lychguard, Deathmarks, Flayed Ones or Tomb Blades doing it this way mind... But it should be good for some themed stuff such as a Destroyer Cult list with support elements that don't need to include basic troops without going unbound.

slightly off tangent, but the restrictions on the Decurion got me thinking.

The chance of you making your RP roll with a Mephrit Detachment is approximately 0.39, absent any modifiers, thanks to the rerolls of 1 on RP. The chance of you making your RP roll for Decurion is 0.5, absent any modifiers (aside from the army wide +1).

What are the thoughts on that? Is the restriction/tax for the 4+++ really worth it?

it's only for troops with the Mephrit though. It's armywide with the Decurion.

You also Ignore Shaken/stunned as a bonus for the Decurion too.

oz of the north wrote:

xpress907 wrote:

oz of the north wrote:
My question is the Nightbringer and Deceiver seem nice, but with only a 6" move is there any way to make them more useful, a 6" move and then having to run, even with a 4++ I feel like in most cases they will be shot down before they can do anything of value.

Why yes there is, god shackle. It wont be getting the command benefits from your decurion but it does give the c'tan shard (either one you mentioned) a +1 to S and T, a variable feel no pain that starts at 5+++, and two cryptek buddies (which are upgradable with some items, one of which is a 2+ armor save and/or a veil of darkness). With veil, you can deepstrike anywhere on the board and solve that, 'but im sooooo slooooow' problem. Oh, did i mention that the crypteks get to use the c'tans toughness when the unit gets shot at?

EDIT: The source for 'Conclave of the Burning One' is in the 'Shield of Baal: Exterminatus' book.

Though with burning conclave you can only take a transcendent, this was mainly focusing on the 2 named shards, the nightbringer and deceiver.

you got it the other way around. With 'Conclave of the Burning One', you can only take it with the c'tan shards (the deceiver and nightbringer), the trans c'tan isnt a shard and so cant be taken with the 'Conclave of the Burning One'. You're confusion might be coming from the fact that GW used the trans c'tan in the pic even though it's the only c'tan of the 3 that cant be used. Look at the rules for 'Conclave of the Burning One', it says you have to select a c'tan shard. Now look at the necron codex, at the full names of the c'tan. The names ones are prefixed with "C'tan shard of the..." while the trans c'tan has no mention of 'shard'.

Requizen wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

willow wrote:

changemod wrote:
Just ran a 2000 point Decurion up: Reclamation Legion is way too restrictive for my tastes. By the time I'd made every unit in it useful, I'd ran up over 900 points and only had room for two formations and a unit of Deathmarks.

Which is cool, I guess. Army wide 4+++ should make us a little predictable.

I'm now more interested in experimenting with a few all-formation armies that don't have the Decurion bonus. No Lychguard, Deathmarks, Flayed Ones or Tomb Blades doing it this way mind... But it should be good for some themed stuff such as a Destroyer Cult list with support elements that don't need to include basic troops without going unbound.

slightly off tangent, but the restrictions on the Decurion got me thinking.

The chance of you making your RP roll with a Mephrit Detachment is approximately 0.39, absent any modifiers, thanks to the rerolls of 1 on RP. The chance of you making your RP roll for Decurion is 0.5, absent any modifiers (aside from the army wide +1).

What are the thoughts on that? Is the restriction/tax for the 4+++ really worth it?

There is always the option of taking a Royal Court formation alongside a Mephrit cohort, and tossing crypteks into key units, giving them a 4+++ with a re-roll 1's ability.

This is one of the reasons I'm actually really excited for this edition, there's so many ways to put an army together. Formations, Decurion, CAD, Mephrit, or mix and match.

Also, you can get a similar benefit from the Decurion. Units from the Reclamation Legion within 12" of the Overlord from that same formation can reroll Reanimation rolls of 1. So it only works for Lychguard, Immortals, Warriors, or Tomb Blades (or the Overlord himself), but that's still a pretty good benefit.

One thing that I don't understand is the overall flap the word "Decurion" has caused. We have already seen these, sort of, in the Rising Leviathan and Exterminatus books - formations composed of other formations. That's all a Decurion lets you do, it's just more flexible on which formations you can take that count as part of it. It never really came up in games before, because the tyranid formation-formations were over 3000 points.

Overall I really like this book too. I'm excited to get some games in with it. Last night was going to be my first, but our game night got postponed due to inclement weather. We're starting a new campaign, and the first week our lists were supposed to be 750 points, 1-2 HQ, 1-6 Troops, 0-2 FA, and 0-1 Elites and Heavy. No LoW, no Fortifications. My list is going to be:

HQ - Orikan
TP - 10x Immortals with Gauss
FA - 5x Wraiths with Whip Coils
EL - Triarch Stalker (heat ray)
HVY - Annihilation Barge

I'll report back how it does after i get a chance to play it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xpress907 wrote:

oz of the north wrote:

xpress907 wrote:

oz of the north wrote:
My question is the Nightbringer and Deceiver seem nice, but with only a 6" move is there any way to make them more useful, a 6" move and then having to run, even with a 4++ I feel like in most cases they will be shot down before they can do anything of value.

Why yes there is, god shackle. It wont be getting the command benefits from your decurion but it does give the c'tan shard (either one you mentioned) a +1 to S and T, a variable feel no pain that starts at 5+++, and two cryptek buddies (which are upgradable with some items, one of which is a 2+ armor save and/or a veil of darkness). With veil, you can deepstrike anywhere on the board and solve that, 'but im sooooo slooooow' problem. Oh, did i mention that the crypteks get to use the c'tans toughness when the unit gets shot at?

EDIT: The source for 'Conclave of the Burning One' is in the 'Shield of Baal: Exterminatus' book.

Though with burning conclave you can only take a transcendent, this was mainly focusing on the 2 named shards, the nightbringer and deceiver.

you got it the other way around. With 'Conclave of the Burning One', you can only take it with the c'tan shards (the deceiver and nightbringer), the trans c'tan isnt a shard and so cant be taken with the 'Conclave of the Burning One'. You're confusion might be coming from the fact that GW used the trans c'tan in the pic even though it's the only c'tan of the 3 that cant be used. Look at the rules for 'Conclave of the Burning One', it says you have to select a c'tan shard. Now look at the necron codex, at the full names of the c'tan. The names ones are prefixed with "C'tan shard of the..." while the trans c'tan has no mention of 'shard'.

To be fully technical about it, there is no rules entry whatsoever anymore for a unit called "C'tan Shard". So RAW the conclave of the burning one can't even be fielded. I'm not saying i'd play it this way, of course.

While there isnt a 'C'tan Shard', there are 'C'tan Shard of the ...' What God Shackle says is "...nominate a single friendly C'tan Shard in your army..." C'tan Shard of the whatever is still a c'tan shard. Although, i do see your point that it no longer matches up verbatim I do disagree with it. If you'd like to discuss this interpretation of the rule, I invite you to make a YMDC thread (if there isnt one already).

willow wrote:

 Victory wrote:


That's just so pricey for the limited mobility though. Don't forget that the C'tan terrain interaction doesn't work with the Crypteks. The best IMO way to run it is cheaply, with a mandatory Veil of Darkness on one Cryptek, and maybe a chronometron/Solar Pulse for the Deep Strike turn. I'd put God-shackle (and Thermasite or Shroud) onto a third Cryptek, tucked far away in another unit, as these two will get targeted.

However, I think that the Nightbringer is back in style, just thankfully not so much to be an auto-include. Such utility, such power. His biggest MC rival will be the Wraithknight no doubt, and that's a match up in the air thanks to the mobility of the latter.
And the Knights will be his other arch-nemeses. That's just a one sided curb-stomp on their part.

What do you guys think? Can a Nightbringer successfully claim a Wraithknight versus a competent player? Does he have a chance versus Imp Knights? I dunno.

EDIT: Does the Veil of Darkness confer Deep Strike to the unit? Or just the model? What do you think was intended? Does this need to be in the included FAQ?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the C'tan does give Move Through Cover to the Crypteks as a MC since they count as one unit per the Conclave rules. They don't completely ignore terrain/models like the C'tan do, but depending on how you run them, it can be close enough. YMMV, pun intended.

People seem to be overplaying the effectiveness of the Solar Staff though. Blind really doesn't work very well against high initiative matchups, so unless you're playing against other crons or orks..... I don't see how I4/5/6 units/models will ever need to worry about a single blind test.

He probably has a better chance of surviving against a Wraithknight than Imp Knights, but that's just imo.

Really? Is this really possible that MTC transfers to the Crypteks? I love it even more now.

Another point: I believe you Oldcron lovers can nominate your Nightbringer in the conclave to be your warlord, and thus getting access to the Mephrit traits. Choices 1-2 hardly affect him, but choices 3 on up are all pretty good on him. If you roll a five he gets hatred, if that six, he gets IWND!

Another shenanigan with the conclave is the Immune to Natural Law rule allowing the Nightbringer to end the turn inside a fully obstructing ruin, with the Crypteks only visible, all in cohesion. Hmm.

 Victory wrote:
Really? Is this really possible that MTC transfers to the Crypteks? I love it even more now.

I didnt realize that but ur right. BRB - Move Through Cover "...A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule..."
The c'tan has it so any unit he's a part of gets it. nicccccce

 Victory wrote:

willow wrote:

 Victory wrote:


That's just so pricey for the limited mobility though. Don't forget that the C'tan terrain interaction doesn't work with the Crypteks. The best IMO way to run it is cheaply, with a mandatory Veil of Darkness on one Cryptek, and maybe a chronometron/Solar Pulse for the Deep Strike turn. I'd put God-shackle (and Thermasite or Shroud) onto a third Cryptek, tucked far away in another unit, as these two will get targeted.

However, I think that the Nightbringer is back in style, just thankfully not so much to be an auto-include. Such utility, such power. His biggest MC rival will be the Wraithknight no doubt, and that's a match up in the air thanks to the mobility of the latter.
And the Knights will be his other arch-nemeses. That's just a one sided curb-stomp on their part.

What do you guys think? Can a Nightbringer successfully claim a Wraithknight versus a competent player? Does he have a chance versus Imp Knights? I dunno.

EDIT: Does the Veil of Darkness confer Deep Strike to the unit? Or just the model? What do you think was intended? Does this need to be in the included FAQ?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the C'tan does give Move Through Cover to the Crypteks as a MC since they count as one unit per the Conclave rules. They don't completely ignore terrain/models like the C'tan do, but depending on how you run them, it can be close enough. YMMV, pun intended.

People seem to be overplaying the effectiveness of the Solar Staff though. Blind really doesn't work very well against high initiative matchups, so unless you're playing against other crons or orks..... I don't see how I4/5/6 units/models will ever need to worry about a single blind test.

He probably has a better chance of surviving against a Wraithknight than Imp Knights, but that's just imo.

Really? Is this really possible that MTC transfers to the Crypteks? I love it even more now.

Another point: I believe you Oldcron lovers can nominate your Nightbringer in the conclave to be your warlord, and thus getting access to the Mephrit traits. Choices 1-2 hardly affect him, but choices 3 on up are all pretty good on him. If you roll a five he gets hatred, if that six, he gets IWND!

Another shenanigan with the conclave is the Immune to Natural Law rule allowing the Nightbringer to end the turn inside a fully obstructing ruin, with the Crypteks only visible, all in cohesion. Hmm.

MTC is one of those "If one model in the unit has the rule, the unit has the rule" USRs. So yeah, those are MTC Crypteks

If you're making the C'Tan your Warlord and want to make him better, I think he's better off rolling on the Personal table. Furious Charge and Counter-Attack are good, Outflank can be situationally useful, +1VP for killing in a challenge is nice if you can get there, FNP means he keeps it after the Crypteks fall, and the last one is IWND.

Either way, making him your Warlord is cool but also makes him even more of a target. I usually like to make my Warlord a backline supporty type like Orikan or Zahndrekh, who have a good chance of surviving.

I always kind of wished Necrons had an Ethereal type of character, who doesn't do much himself except buff our other units a lot. I mean sure, Szeras has random buffs, Orikan gives Saves rerolls, Anrakyr makes Immortals slightly better in Assault, and Zahndrekh can bring Traits to do so, but we don't have a generic character that boosts our damage output. I guess as the "durable army" our equivalent is Crypteks bringing 5++ against shooting and 4+++ RP.

xpress907 wrote:
While there isnt a 'C'tan Shard', there are 'C'tan Shard of the ...' What God Shackle says is "...nominate a single friendly C'tan Shard in your army..." C'tan Shard of the whatever is still a c'tan shard. Although, i do see your point that it no longer matches up verbatim I do disagree with it. If you'd like to discuss this interpretation of the rule, I invite you to make a YMDC thread (if there isnt one already).

Oh, don't get me wrong -- I fully understand with the updated book the formation is referring to our current c'tan rules entries. I was just playing devil's advocate by pointing out the silly RAW that invalidates an entire formation. I would never tell someone who wanted to use the conclave or the god shackle that they couldn't. In fact, I'd even be alright with them using a transcendent c'tan for either as well.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

xpress907 wrote:
While there isnt a 'C'tan Shard', there are 'C'tan Shard of the ...' What God Shackle says is "...nominate a single friendly C'tan Shard in your army..." C'tan Shard of the whatever is still a c'tan shard. Although, i do see your point that it no longer matches up verbatim I do disagree with it. If you'd like to discuss this interpretation of the rule, I invite you to make a YMDC thread (if there isnt one already).

Oh, don't get me wrong -- I fully understand with the updated book the formation is referring to our current c'tan rules entries. I was just playing devil's advocate by pointing out the silly RAW that invalidates an entire formation. I would never tell someone who wanted to use the conclave or the god shackle that they couldn't. In fact, I'd even be alright with them using a transcendent c'tan for either as well.

I would be ok with someone using the trans c'tan too if they wanted. I personally avoid people that are RAW to the grave. I usually try to go by what was best intended and not game breaking. The point is to have fun, not to nit pick every sentence.

Okay, first prod at trying to design a Decurion:

Reclamation Legion:

Overlord: Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Phylactery, Gauntlet of Fire. Considering swapping Gauntlet of Fire for Voidreaper upgrade to Scythe.

Five Shieldguard in a Night Scythe, joined by Overlord.

Ten Gauss Immortals,

Ten Warriors,

Ten Warriors,

Six Tomb Blades, Shield Vanes and Nebuloscopes.

Five Deathmarks.

Annihilation Nexus:

Can only be fielded one way: Barge, Barge, Ark.

Canoptek Harvest:

Six Wraiths with Whip Coils,

Three Scarabs,

Three Spyders, Particle Beamers, one with Gloom Prism,

Comes to exactly 2000. As I mentioned briefly earlier, the Reclamation Legion is pretty inflexible and eats half the army even at this size.

changemod wrote:
Okay, first prod at trying to design a Decurion:

Reclamation Legion:

Overlord: Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Phylactery, Gauntlet of Fire. Considering swapping Gauntlet of Fire for Voidreaper upgrade to Scythe.

Five Shieldguard in a Night Scythe, joined by Overlord.

Ten Gauss Immortals:

Ten Gauss Immortals:

Six Tomb Blades, Shield Vanes and Nebuloscopes.

Five Deathmarks.

Annihilation Nexus:

Can only be fielded one way: Barge, Barge, Ark.

Canoptek Harvest:

Six Wraiths with Whip Coils,

Three Scarabs,

Three Spyders, Particle Beamers, one with Gloom Prism,

Comes to exactly 2000. As I mentioned briefly earlier, the Reclamation Legion is pretty inflexible and eats half the army even at this size.

That doesn't fulfil the Reclamation Legion's requirements, it needs Warriors.

changemod wrote:
Okay, first prod at trying to design a Decurion:

Reclamation Legion:

Overlord: Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Phylactery, Gauntlet of Fire. Considering swapping Gauntlet of Fire for Voidreaper upgrade to Scythe.

Five Shieldguard in a Night Scythe, joined by Overlord.

Ten Gauss Immortals:

Ten Gauss Immortals:

Six Tomb Blades, Shield Vanes and Nebuloscopes.

Five Deathmarks.

Annihilation Nexus:

Can only be fielded one way: Barge, Barge, Ark.

Canoptek Harvest:

Six Wraiths with Whip Coils,

Three Scarabs,

Three Spyders, Particle Beamers, one with Gloom Prism,

Comes to exactly 2000. As I mentioned briefly earlier, the Reclamation Legion is pretty inflexible and eats half the army even at this size.

Reclamation Legion is 2x 10 warriors and 1x5 immortals, right?

col_impact wrote:

changemod wrote:
Okay, first prod at trying to design a Decurion:

Reclamation Legion:

Overlord: Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Phylactery, Gauntlet of Fire. Considering swapping Gauntlet of Fire for Voidreaper upgrade to Scythe.

Five Shieldguard in a Night Scythe, joined by Overlord.

Ten Gauss Immortals:

Ten Gauss Immortals:

Six Tomb Blades, Shield Vanes and Nebuloscopes.

Five Deathmarks.

Annihilation Nexus:

Can only be fielded one way: Barge, Barge, Ark.

Canoptek Harvest:

Six Wraiths with Whip Coils,

Three Scarabs,

Three Spyders, Particle Beamers, one with Gloom Prism,

Comes to exactly 2000. As I mentioned briefly earlier, the Reclamation Legion is pretty inflexible and eats half the army even at this size.

Reclamation Legion is 2x 10 warriors and 1x5 immortals, right?

Yep, seem to have written "Ten Gauss Immortals, Ten Gauss Immortals" instead of "Ten Gauss Immortals, Ten Warriors, Ten Warriors" which is what is actually in my list.

col_impact wrote:
Reclamation Legion is 2x 10 warriors and 1x5 immortals, right?

yes, amongst other things.

@changemod - the canoptek harvest formation only has 1 Spyder in it.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
@changemod - the canoptek harvest formation only has 1 Spyder in it.

Nope.

Formation Restrictions: None, plus the picture of a full Decurion that comes with the special edition has three in it.

It's just some confusion people have had over the use of singular terminology.

It's such a strange situation.

In the book, it clearly says 1 Canoptek Spyder, and the picture of the Formation in the Codex only has 1 Spyder.

The picture in the Decurion has 3 Spyders as part of it.


I guess in the long run, 1 Canoptek Spyder makes a Unit of Spyders by default (since the min size is 1), so that Unit of Spyders can buy 2 more.

But then, the terminology of the Formation Rule doesn't make sense.

Here's a tactics question - I recently assembled 5 Praetorians with void blades and particle casters. The reason i did this over Rods of the Covenant was I used 1 of the warscythes from the kit to make a Destroyer Lord.

So, what's done is done. What are the best targets for these praetorians to engage? Obviously the ap2 version is best for assaulting terminators and other TEQ. These guys are AP4, rending, and have an extra attack per model. Where do i send them in the battle?

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Here's a tactics question - I recently assembled 5 Praetorians with void blades and particle casters. The reason i did this over Rods of the Covenant was I used 1 of the warscythes from the kit to make a Destroyer Lord.

So, what's done is done. What are the best targets for these praetorians to engage? Obviously the ap2 version is best for assaulting terminators and other TEQ. These guys are AP4, rending, and have an extra attack per model. Where do i send them in the battle?

Voidblades/Particle Praetorians are better than Rods against vehicles. The only bonus Rods have is that they can make AV10 explode with their AP2. Against everything AV11 or higher, Voidblades/Particle Casters are the clear winners.

For units, Void Blades win against 4+ in Assault, so do better against hordes or light armored armies. So it's a bit of a toss up, if you need a unit to deal with 2+ armor in assault or shooting, Rod is the choice. Against squishy, light armored targets, Void/Particle does better just by the extra numbers.

The fluff description of the Canoptek swarm in the front of the book says "unit of spyders" so there is a disconnect between descriptions in the book itself.

More pertinent is that you can't legally have 1 canoptek spyder. You can only legally have 1 unit of canoptek spyders with a single spyder in it.

And the preview in the White Dwarf had an example Decurion with a unit of two.

I know there's a tendency on here to assume the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing, but there's nothing actually listing a max, just a lack of the word "unit" in the base requirements box.

Kangodo wrote:
Nah, so far he seems quite easy:
T1: Zealot.
T2: Reroll 1's in shooting for units within 12"
T3: Keep the one from T2.
T4: Keep the one from T2

I know that is the most optimal, however, with the ability to change your Warlord Trait as needed, having a list of all of them at your fingertips will make him that much better. He's like a giant toolbox, sure you will normally just need a screwdriver, but sometimes you need to bust out the Hydraulic Torque Wrench just to get the job done right.