Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hollismason wrote:
I think you come out a bit ahead on the particle casters with the ability to deep strike, specifically if the Triarchs are in LOS of the target that has AV10 Rear like Knights.

IK AV F13 S12 R12

tetrisphreak wrote:Speaking of tournament level tactics, since adamantium lance is the new hotness i think i have a combo that helps fight it. It involves Zandrekh, a Triarch Stalker, a brick of 20 warriors, and Tau allies! Tau are allies of convenience, so they're still treated as "enemy" units. A buffmander and a unit of missile pod crisis suits offer some good firepower, while sharing their hit and run, tank hunter, etc that they get from the PENchip with zandrekh and his warriors. 40 BS5 tank-hunting gauss shots have a pretty good chance of downing a knight at close range, even with a 4++ reroll save. Add in hit and run from the VRTs the commander has, and they'll only have to suffer 1 round of D-swords and stomps before turning around to rapid fire and do it again.

tetrisphreak wrote:Well my idea is to have a list that *can* handle AdLance, while still maintaining a threat to other armies as well. In addition, while this list lacks a ton of mobility, it has a huge board presence of hard-to-kill bodies.

For AdLance, relying on Gauss to glance them down, even with huge numbers of Warriors, is pretty iffy. And we have really good anti-tank options as it is - Heavy Destroyers, especially if we take them in the Formation and group them with a Stalker. Heavy Destroyers have the mobility to hit multiple sides, have PE, and reroll all penetrating hits. Even in the worst case scenario, against Front Armor 13 and without the Stalker to make them BS5, they're hitting on 3s rerolling 1s and glancing on 4s rerolling all. That's a 58% chance to get a Hull Point off Front Armor before the saves. Once you start hitting Side Armor, and if you have the Stalker's bonus, that jumps to a 65% chance to get a hull point. And of course, as AP2 guns, there's always the chance of getting more from Explodes!

So while it's not likely that HDestroyers will instagib a Knight in one round of shooting, they're basically guaranteed to get ~2-4 hull points per turn, making them much easier pickings for the rest of your army, like Barges, Gauss, or HS options.

Sir Arun wrote:What do people think of Orikan the Diviner? I'm beginning to like his new rules. Permanent Empowered state is cool; low points cost of 120 is cool, eternal warrior is cool, AP2 close combat weapon is cool as well.

And he improves the WBB roll of a squad he is attached to by +1, just like a normal cryptek, and also allows them to re-roll saving throws of 1 (both armor and inv.)

I think this guy would be awesome leading a 10 man Lychguard shield unit into the enemy DZ. By the time they arrive they will have soaked ungodly amounts of firepower and he'll probably also gained the Empowered state.

I love this new Orikan. Shield Lychguard that include Orikan and the Reclamation Legion's Overlord only have a 9% chance of taking a wound. Laugh as you have a 3++ rerolling 1s followed by a 4+++ rerolling 1s. That's a shieldwall, baby.

Requizen wrote:


For AdLance, relying on Gauss to glance them down, even with huge numbers of Warriors, is pretty iffy. And we have really good anti-tank options as it is - Heavy Destroyers, especially if we take them in the Formation and group them with a Stalker. Heavy Destroyers have the mobility to hit multiple sides, have PE, and reroll all penetrating hits. Even in the worst case scenario, against Front Armor 13 and without the Stalker to make them BS5, they're hitting on 3s rerolling 1s and glancing on 4s rerolling all. That's a 58% chance to get a Hull Point off Front Armor before the saves. Once you start hitting Side Armor, and if you have the Stalker's bonus, that jumps to a 65% chance to get a hull point. And of course, as AP2 guns, there's always the chance of getting more from Explodes!

So while it's not likely that HDestroyers will instagib a Knight in one round of shooting, they're basically guaranteed to get ~2-4 hull points per turn, making them much easier pickings for the rest of your army, like Barges, Gauss, or HS options.

Heavy Destroyers can certainly do some work. However it must be pointed out that in a Judicator Battalion, only the models from that formation get the re-rolls to hit, wound, and Penetrate. (2x units of praetorians and the unit of stalkers).
Also, tank-hunters on gauss weapons makes them very useful at range, and in large numbers for relatively small points. re-rolling for those 6's to glance will kill most tanks in the game in a single volley, almost definitely so when in rapid fire range. That's why the crisis commander is key here - he's siphoning off useful USRs for zandrekh to give his posse. Also they're relentless, so if they blow apart a transport they can charge what was inside, such as tactical marines etc. At the end of the enemy turn if they're still locked in CC, hit and run out (albeit at a lowly I2 check).

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Requizen wrote:


For AdLance, relying on Gauss to glance them down, even with huge numbers of Warriors, is pretty iffy. And we have really good anti-tank options as it is - Heavy Destroyers, especially if we take them in the Formation and group them with a Stalker. Heavy Destroyers have the mobility to hit multiple sides, have PE, and reroll all penetrating hits. Even in the worst case scenario, against Front Armor 13 and without the Stalker to make them BS5, they're hitting on 3s rerolling 1s and glancing on 4s rerolling all. That's a 58% chance to get a Hull Point off Front Armor before the saves. Once you start hitting Side Armor, and if you have the Stalker's bonus, that jumps to a 65% chance to get a hull point. And of course, as AP2 guns, there's always the chance of getting more from Explodes!

So while it's not likely that HDestroyers will instagib a Knight in one round of shooting, they're basically guaranteed to get ~2-4 hull points per turn, making them much easier pickings for the rest of your army, like Barges, Gauss, or HS options.

Heavy Destroyers can certainly do some work. However it must be pointed out that in a Judicator Battalion, only the models from that formation get the re-rolls to hit, wound, and Penetrate. (2x units of praetorians and the unit of stalkers).
Also, tank-hunters on gauss weapons makes them very useful at range, and in large numbers for relatively small points. re-rolling for those 6's to glance will kill most tanks in the game in a single volley, almost definitely so when in rapid fire range. That's why the crisis commander is key here - he's siphoning off useful USRs for zandrekh to give his posse. Also they're relentless, so if they blow apart a transport they can charge what was inside, such as tactical marines etc. At the end of the enemy turn if they're still locked in CC, hit and run out (albeit at a lowly I2 check).

Destroyer Cult: Extermination Protocols: All units in this Formation re-roll failed To Wound rolls and Armour Penetration rolls in the Shooting phase.

They're good at what they do.

I...I...I... am in remiss for not looking at that.

Wow. I need more destroyers.

Yeah, the Destroyer Cult minimally shoots out 18 Gauss shots that reroll 1s to hit and reroll Armour Penetration Rolls is pretty insane.

The problem though is that the Judicator battalion and the Destroyer Cult come in at a really really hefty price minimum of like 1000 points for both which doesn't leave a lot of room left over for much else. However it mow things down. Despite losing the Decurions +1 RP , it's still worth it as a Formation with a Primary Detachment Cad.

I guess like

Overlord

10 Warriors

10 Warriors

5 Immortals

3 Tomb Blades

Total : 479

Judicator

5 Praetorians

5 Praetorians

1 Triarch Stalker

Total : 405

Destroyer Cult

1 Destroyer Lord

1 3 Man Destroyer

1 3 Man Destroyer

1 3 Man Destroyer

1 1 Man H. Destroyer

Total : 520


Combined Total: 1404

I have no idea where you would go from there if you were doing 1850 but I'm totally interested to hear peoples thoughts!

I'd bump the heavy destroyers to 3 guys personally.

So here's a really fabulous idea:

Decurion Tomb-Strike (1814)

Bargelord (Orb, Scythe, Shroud, Phylactery, Phase)
10x Warriors w/ Ark
10x Warriors w/ Ark
5x Immortals
some tomb blades
5x Lychgard w/ Scythes (alternatively, take a gak-load of Flayed Ones)
5x Lychgard w/ Scythes

Living Tomb
Take an Obelisk and the 2 Monoliths w/ the Living Tomb formation. Hold Lychgards in reserve and deploy 2x Arks, Immortals, Tomb Blades, and your Bargelord in cover and choose to go second.

Turn 2 Advance Troops and Bargelord and drop in Obelisk and Monoliths behind enemy lines, immediately crap out 2x Lychgards or 2x more warrior squads or a butt-load of Flayed Ones (any jump or infantry units) directly from the Monoliths which Deep Strike with no scatter within 12" of the Obelisk due to the Tomb Nexus formation rule. It sounds hellishly silly and expensive points-wise but it could be a ton of fun. If all else fails you make a giant AV14 anti-flier/anti-Wave Serpent wall for your army to advance up behind.

Yeah that's a given probably, but man that only leaves 346 points left over let's just say 300 and give Warscythes to the Overlord and Destroyer Lord. Say you get 1 Ghost Ark.

So now you got

Overlord w/ Warscythe
10 Warriors w/ Ghost Ark
10 Warriors
5 Immortals

3 Tomb Blades

Judicator
5 Praetorians (Particle Caster)
5 Praetorians ( Particle Caster)
1 Triarch Stalker


Destroyer Cult
1 Destroyer Lord
1 3 Man Destroyer w/ War Scythe
1 3 Man Destroyer
1 3 Man Destroyer
1 3 Man H. Destroyer

195 points left to 1850 , take another Triarch then bump the Tomb Blades to 5 models.

I'm actually liking that combination of Cult + Judicator.

Here's my take on how to fill it up to 1850:

Overlord w/ Warscythe
5 Immortals
10 Warriors w/ Ark
10 Warriors w/ Ark
5 Blades w/ Beamers, Nebuloscopes, Shieldvanes

Destroyer Lord w/ Warscythe
2 Destroyers & 1 Heavy Destroyer
2 Destroyers & 1 Heavy Destroyer
2 Destroyers & 1 Heavy Destroyer
3 Heavy Destroyers

Stalker w/ Heat Ray
5 Praetorians w/ Rods
5 Praetorians w/ Rods

It's very much the polar opposite of the last codex lists that had the lack of AP2 as one of their main weaknesses. No idea if it works, but I'll definitely try it out when I have time to repaint all the destroyers I have from ye olden days, and get some preatorians.

Debilitate wrote:
So here's a really fabulous idea:

Decurion Tomb-Strike (1814)

Bargelord (Orb, Scythe, Shroud, Phylactery, Phase)
10x Warriors w/ Ark
10x Warriors w/ Ark
5x Immortals
some tomb blades
5x Lychgard w/ Scythes (alternatively, take a gak-load of Flayed Ones)
5x Lychgard w/ Scythes

Living Tomb
Take an Obelisk and the 2 Monoliths w/ the Living Tomb formation. Hold Lychgards in reserve and deploy 2x Arks, Immortals, Tomb Blades, and your Bargelord in cover and choose to go second.

Turn 2 Advance Troops and Bargelord and drop in Obelisk and Monoliths behind enemy lines, immediately crap out 2x Lychgards or 2x more warrior squads or a butt-load of Flayed Ones (any jump or infantry units) directly from the Monoliths which Deep Strike with no scatter within 12" of the Obelisk due to the Tomb Nexus formation rule. It sounds hellishly silly and expensive points-wise but it could be a ton of fun. If all else fails you make a giant AV14 anti-flier/anti-Wave Serpent wall for your army to advance up behind.

Remember - the Obelisk comes in Turn 2 automatically, but the Monoliths still need to roll to come in. When I use my Living Tomb (And I will ), I'll be bringing Zahndrekh and giving him one of the Reserve Warlord Traits on turn 2.

 MLKTH wrote:
I'm actually liking that combination of Cult + Judicator.

Here's my take on how to fill it up to 1850:

Overlord w/ Warscythe
5 Immortals
10 Warriors w/ Ark
10 Warriors w/ Ark
5 Blades w/ Beamers, Nebuloscopes, Shieldvanes

Destroyer Lord w/ Warscythe
2 Destroyers & 1 Heavy Destroyer
2 Destroyers & 1 Heavy Destroyer
2 Destroyers & 1 Heavy Destroyer
3 Heavy Destroyers

Stalker w/ Heat Ray
5 Praetorians w/ Rods
5 Praetorians w/ Rods

It's very much the polar opposite of the last codex lists that had the lack of AP2 as one of their main weaknesses. No idea if it works, but I'll definitely try it out when I have time to repaint all the destroyers I have from ye olden days, and get some preatorians.

I like your list better but I'd probably change to Particle Casters or mix the two. 1 Particle Caster, 1 Rod of the Covenant. That's seems really solid.


Overlord w/ Warscythe
5 Immortals
10 Warriors w/ Ark
10 Warriors w/ Ark
5 Blades w/ Beamers Nebuloscopes, Shieldvanes

Destroyer Lord w/ Warscythe
2 Destroyers & 1 Heavy Destroyer
2 Destroyers & 1 Heavy Destroyer
2 Destroyers & 1 Heavy Destroyer
3 Heavy Destroyers

Stalker w/ Heat Ray
5 Praetorians w/ Particle Casters
5 Praetorians w/ Rods

I think rods are the superior choice for praetorians, but I haven't tried them yet at all.

Dunno what you'd do about fliers.

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah, the Destroyer Cult minimally shoots out 18 Gauss shots that reroll 1s to hit and reroll Armour Penetration Rolls is pretty insane.

The problem though is that the Judicator battalion and the Destroyer Cult come in at a really really hefty price minimum of like 1000 points for both which doesn't leave a lot of room left over for much else. However it mow things down. Despite losing the Decurions +1 RP , it's still worth it as a Formation with a Primary Detachment Cad.

I guess like

Overlord

10 Warriors

10 Warriors

5 Immortals

3 Tomb Blades

Total : 479

Judicator

5 Praetorians

5 Praetorians

1 Triarch Stalker

Total : 405

Destroyer Cult

1 Destroyer Lord

1 3 Man Destroyer

1 3 Man Destroyer

1 3 Man Destroyer

1 1 Man H. Destroyer

Total : 520


Combined Total: 1404

I have no idea where you would go from there if you were doing 1850 but I'm totally interested to hear peoples thoughts!

I thought they still got the +1 to WBB, but not the rerolling of 1 when attempting so. I thought that part came from the Reclamation.

Hollismason wrote:
Dunno what you'd do about fliers.

Honestly necrons are so durable I think your better off just ignoring fliers.

No one said it did, just that it rerolls 1s to hit and Rerolls Wounds and Army penetration.

Having the Destroyers which are actually small enough units to surround the Triarch to get the +1 BS with in 6inchs pretty much is a auto hit 18 Gauss Shots.. it's BS5 Twin Linked.

Then you reroll wounds.

Someone can check my math. I think I'm doing the percentages right

To hit - 17.43
Total Wounds

T3 - 17.49
T4 - 15.25
T5 - 13.5
T6- 9.96
T7- 5.4

I think that's right. It's just a insane amount of Damage output.

Against any Armoured Target

18 Shots

17.43 hits

5 Glances

Hollismason wrote:
Dunno what you'd do about fliers.

Necron's only defense to fliers are either flyers of our own or Sentry Pylons from Forgeworld.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Difference is AV13 quantum shielding isn't hard to crack at all

As someone who frequently plays with and against Necrons, AV13 most certainly is hard to crack - especially when taken in multiples, and even more so when it can Jink for 4+ cover.

Also, for as durable as Warriors are, I'm not sure you appreciate just how much firepower AV13 outright ignores.

Full units of Tomb Blades can actually put some serious wounds on FMCs like Tyrants especially if they move to Glide Mode.

In terms of IK's

Yes its patchy to rely on the meager s7 and warrior blocks to put 6 HP's on of course, at best you can put 4 on and he will save 1-3 of them from a ton of guass.

But that is the warm up for charging him with cheap warscythes and wraiths surely...it sucks having to fight them and watch the HP slowly stack up to 6 but he is only swinging back and stomping with 3 hits (and whatever stomps he gets) the wraiths could well survive long enough.

Is there not some kind of special rule that allows you to shoot super heavies in combat...given their size and durability there definitely should be.

I honestly have been thinking of picking up some Tau to ally in for "tournament/competitive lists". They can help with hard anti-tank shooting and anti air, two things our lists lack.

I think the Destroyer Cult is more Viable with a normal CAD and multiple Triarchs as your troop tax is lower and you can take a 65 point HQ.

1 Cryptek
2 Squads of 5 Immortals
Total 235
3 Triarchs 375

Total 610

Leaves

1240 to spend on Destroyers H. Destroyers and Tomb Blades.

Requizen wrote:
I honestly have been thinking of picking up some Tau to ally in for "tournament/competitive lists". They can help with hard anti-tank shooting and anti air, two things our lists lack.

Cant go wrong with a Tau Firebase Support Cadre.

Hollismason wrote:
I think the Destroyer Cult is more Viable with a normal CAD and multiple Triarchs as your troop tax is lower and you can take a 65 point HQ.

1 Cryptek
2 Squads of 5 Immortals
Total 235

Then the rest of the army can just be Triarchs and Destroyers.

Or take the Judicator Battalion and the Destroyer Cult formations, between those 2 you can get 1850 points.

Kholzerino wrote:
Destroyer Lord with Tomb Blades? Unit of 10. That's a lot of gauss rerolling 1s to hit.

If you are taking the destroyer cult in a Decurion and want to get advantage out of Preferred Enemy... Within 12" they get 23 str 5 shots hitting on 3s and rerolling 1s. Mostly ignoring cover. I think tomb blades are my auto include this codex.

I am running no less then 2 units of them in my competitive builds.. 3+ 4+ cover 4+++ RP.

 Tyran wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
I think the Destroyer Cult is more Viable with a normal CAD and multiple Triarchs as your troop tax is lower and you can take a 65 point HQ.

1 Cryptek
2 Squads of 5 Immortals
Total 235

Then the rest of the army can just be Triarchs and Destroyers.

Or take the Judicator Battalion and the Destroyer Cult formations, between those 2 you can get 1850 points.

That's currently what I'm in the process of working on. I'm thinking the Destroyer Lord will join the Void Praetorians and the Rod ones go at it alone. I'll have a list tonight that I'll post here when completed.

I don't see the point of a Destroyer lord with Tomb Blades for needing to hit, but the to wound would be nice.

I'm more worried about the movement you'd be giving up for those re-rolls.

 MLKTH wrote:
I'm actually liking that combination of Cult + Judicator.

Here's my take on how to fill it up to 1850:

Overlord w/ Warscythe
5 Immortals
10 Warriors w/ Ark
10 Warriors w/ Ark
5 Blades w/ Beamers, Nebuloscopes, Shieldvanes

Destroyer Lord w/ Warscythe
2 Destroyers & 1 Heavy Destroyer
2 Destroyers & 1 Heavy Destroyer
2 Destroyers & 1 Heavy Destroyer
3 Heavy Destroyers

Stalker w/ Heat Ray
5 Praetorians w/ Rods
5 Praetorians w/ Rods

It's very much the polar opposite of the last codex lists that had the lack of AP2 as one of their main weaknesses. No idea if it works, but I'll definitely try it out when I have time to repaint all the destroyers I have from ye olden days, and get some preatorians.

Actually, I might be tempted to switch one of the arks to 8 more warriors, because the destroyer lord doesn't really have anywhere to go in this list and his PE would really benefit a big unit of warriors. I'd usually put the overlord there as well in that case. I usually prefer 10 warriors in an ark to 18 on foot, but maybe not here.