Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Zimko wrote:

 KiloFiX wrote:
What's good about Tomb Blades again?

Is it just because they're the 'toughest' line option in a Rec Legion?

They're cheap. 22 points per model.

They're resilient. T5 and 3+ armour saves and Jink AND 5+ RP (4+ in decurion)

They're fast. See jetbikes.

They deal good amount of damage. Twin-linked rapid fire S5 AP4 Gauss with Ignores Cover is very strong.

Add all this together and include the fact that they can be taken in units of up to 10 models and you have a strong unit with little to no downsides.

They are way undercosted. They probably should cost 40 points. They are the Annihilation Barge of the 7th edition codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hollismason wrote:
I'm honestly just leaning to always playing them with Particle Beamers but you lose the ability to fire when you jink with those.

My default is gauss since it can literally do something to everything. I take them in units of 5 for max morale and targetting.

Hollismason wrote:
I'm honestly just leaning to always playing them with Particle Beamers but you lose the ability to fire when you jink with those.

Meh, why jink? Just move them into midfield cover and get the best of both worlds.

There is no way that Tomb Blades should be 40 points... that's just insane. They were cheaper than that in the last codex, and still never taken...

They are awesome now though.

Zimko wrote:

 KiloFiX wrote:
What's good about Tomb Blades again?

Is it just because they're the 'toughest' line option in a Rec Legion?

They're cheap. 22 points per model.

They're resilient. T5 and 3+ armour saves and Jink AND 5+ RP (4+ in decurion)

They're fast. See jetbikes.

They deal good amount of damage. Twin-linked rapid fire S5 AP4 Gauss with Ignores Cover is very strong.

Add all this together and include the fact that they can be taken in units of up to 10 models and you have a strong unit with little to no downsides.

He's got most of the bases covered. The thing he left out is that they are a requirement to field a Decurion. So you're in for at least 3 if you want to field a Decurion at all, and you'll probably want to field a Decurion.

 Sasori wrote:
There is no way that Tomb Blades should be 40 points... that's just insane. They were cheaper than that in the last codex, and still never taken...

They are awesome now though.

I just threw that number out there. What do you think an appropriate cost is for them? 30?

col_impact wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
There is no way that Tomb Blades should be 40 points... that's just insane. They were cheaper than that in the last codex, and still never taken...

They are awesome now though.

I just threw that number out there. What do you think an appropriate cost is for them? 30?

I honestly think they're fine. Maybe their upgrades could stand to be a little more expensive, but we'll have to see if they are as meta-defining as abarges and night scythes were. I don't think they will be on that level.

The part where they shine is the Decurion, seriously 4+ RP, Reroll 1s near the Warlord who can keep up with a Barge.

Seriously hard to deal with that.

How do you guys like to run them? Think the 3+ is a must. Been toying with blasts however I don't see the value in ignores cover with the blast since the ap isn't great so the enemy will likely get their save anyway. But ignoring cover feels like a must with gauss as it makes them much more potent with ap4.

Either way they are 22pts which is a steal, how do you guys equip them?

Hollismason wrote:
The part where they shine is the Decurion, seriously 4+ RP, Reroll 1s near the Warlord who can keep up with a Barge.

Seriously hard to deal with that.

No matter where they are fielded, they are good. Need a cheap and durable objective grabber? Check. Want a bigger squad that can actually do some work? Got that also. As soon as GW gets off their butts and decides to make more of those things, I will be looking to try a bit of both. I think I'd like to run a small unit with little/no upgrades (maybe 3+ jink) and then a nice 10 man unit with ignores cover on their gauss. Hello Mr. Wave Serpent/any other tank lol.

I just need more fast attack slots. Seriously. I think I'll wind up taking a Canoptek Harvest just to give me another unit of tomb blades to go alongside my wraiths

I am thinking the best ally for Decurion Crons is Tau with Riptide for AA and Kroot (and optionally a Buffmander for Zandrekh shenanigans). The Tau package seems to shore up all the Necron weaknesses.

col_impact wrote:
I am thinking the best ally for Decurion Crons is Tau with Riptide for AA and Kroot (and optionally a Buffmander for Zandrekh shenanigans). The Tau package seems to shore up all the Necron weaknesses.

A friend was telling me about the Buffmander thing with Zandrekh. What all buffs can you get from the HQ choice? I'm still new and haven't played with or against Tau yet.

col_impact wrote:
I am thinking the best ally for Decurion Crons is Tau with Riptide for AA and Kroot (and optionally a Buffmander for Zandrekh shenanigans). The Tau package seems to shore up all the Necron weaknesses.

Points become an issue though.

Yeah the harvest allows you to do some nasty things as it's 2 Fast Attack 1 h. choice.

You can play Scarab Farm and Deadly Wraiths.

2 x 10 Tomb Blades
2 x Spyder
2 x Spyder
6 Wraiths w/ T Beamers
3 Scarabs
1 Spyder

Enjoy the 26 T5 + 5 T6 and a unit that can charge you on the first turn of the game.

As explained before you absolutely can get a almost guarenteed first turn charge with Scarabs because they changed the wording.

I don't know about the preatoriens but the stalker is a very good unit if your just looking for some heavy duty short range fire power.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would definitely suggest the wraiths but if your using army builder keep in mind that the wraiths only come in squads of four now. This really erks me because I've been playing necrons for quite a while now and the 6 man wraith squad with whip coils was hard to beat.

Zimko wrote:
ISo here's what I've come up with.

CAD:

Destroyer Lord w/ Phase Shifter, Warscythe, Nightmare Shroud - 190
5x Immortals w/ Gauss - 85
Nightscythe - 130
5x Immortals w/ Gauss - 85
Nightscythe - 130
6x Tomb Blades w/ SV, NS, Gauss - 132
6x Tomb Blades w/ SV, NS, Gauss - 132
3x Heavy Destroyers - 150
3x Heavy Destroyers - 150

Destroyer Cult

Destroyer Lord w/ Phase Shifter, Warscythe - 155
3x Heavy Destroyers - 150
3x Destroyers - 120
3x Destroyers - 120
3x Destroyers - 120

So that's 3 units of AP 3 shooting, 3 units of AP 2 shooting and 2 units of AP 4 ignore cover shooting plus 2 Nightscythes... all on mobile and resilient platforms. And the two Destroyer Lords are no push over in close combat. Each could easily get rid of a small unit or a vehicle.

Does this seem like a good competitive list?

I really like your list, I think the only other things I would change is to remove 1 x unit of HD's and then upgrade 1 x Destroyer from the cult unit's into a HD. Gives your guys some flexibility if they are in the right position to fire at the rear of a vehicle. Also gives you another 120 points to play with.

EDIT - On another note, I have found my Destroyer Lords are hard to find a place for.. I think the one in the CAD could be down graded to a normal over lord (or even Cryptek) to free up even more points for some flayed ones to deep strike in with the DL in the formation. Flayed ones still fit in with the "fluff" of the army I would of thought?

bodazoka wrote:

Zimko wrote:
ISo here's what I've come up with.

CAD:

Destroyer Lord w/ Phase Shifter, Warscythe, Nightmare Shroud - 190
5x Immortals w/ Gauss - 85
Nightscythe - 130
5x Immortals w/ Gauss - 85
Nightscythe - 130
6x Tomb Blades w/ SV, NS, Gauss - 132
6x Tomb Blades w/ SV, NS, Gauss - 132
3x Heavy Destroyers - 150
3x Heavy Destroyers - 150

Destroyer Cult

Destroyer Lord w/ Phase Shifter, Warscythe - 155
3x Heavy Destroyers - 150
3x Destroyers - 120
3x Destroyers - 120
3x Destroyers - 120

So that's 3 units of AP 3 shooting, 3 units of AP 2 shooting and 2 units of AP 4 ignore cover shooting plus 2 Nightscythes... all on mobile and resilient platforms. And the two Destroyer Lords are no push over in close combat. Each could easily get rid of a small unit or a vehicle.

Does this seem like a good competitive list?

I really like your list, I think the only other things I would change is to remove 1 x unit of HD's and then upgrade 1 x Destroyer from the cult unit's into a HD. Gives your guys some flexibility if they are in the right position to fire at the rear of a vehicle. Also gives you another 120 points to play with.

I disagree, the mixed destroyer units are just worse. Their target priority is all over the place, high str ap2 generally wants to shoot at vehicles or elite infantry, while the destroyer just want to shoot at meq/infantry. The range hurts too, since if the destroyers can shoot then they can generally be shot at and thats not where the Heavies want to be. Personally I find running vanilla destroyers better as it allows you to deepstrike them if you need to without sacrificing the great range of the heavies.

As for the destroyer lords, t6 3wounds with a 4+invuln and then RP is pretty tanky and hard to take down. I would just run them with a fast unit like his tomb blades or destroyers and then break off once they get close to something.

Thing 2.0 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would definitely suggest the wraiths but if your using army builder keep in mind that the wraiths only come in squads of four now. This really erks me because I've been playing necrons for quite a while now and the 6 man wraith squad with whip coils was hard to beat.

Dunno about "army builder", but in normal games you can take 3-6 wraiths.

How are Scarabs? I noticed that a lot of Harvest lists only have the minimal 3.

I realize that the new EP isn't as good against vehicles but they should do better against Infantry no?

Fragile wrote:

col_impact wrote:
I am thinking the best ally for Decurion Crons is Tau with Riptide for AA and Kroot (and optionally a Buffmander for Zandrekh shenanigans). The Tau package seems to shore up all the Necron weaknesses.

Points become an issue though.

A min load out (with Ethereal) runs about as much as a Conclave or a Destroyer cult and adds tons more than either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

caelim wrote:

Thing 2.0 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would definitely suggest the wraiths but if your using army builder keep in mind that the wraiths only come in squads of four now. This really erks me because I've been playing necrons for quite a while now and the 6 man wraith squad with whip coils was hard to beat.

Dunno about "army builder", but in normal games you can take 3-6 wraiths.

Use Battlescribe, and if something doesn't work you can communicate to Kangodo directly.

So I found an interesting piece of evidence concerning Necron pylons, as I was thinking about AA in the Necron codex (or the relative lack thereof)

The source:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/2d9elg/necon_pylon_has_it_really_been_nerfed_into_the/

The relevant quote, a response from Forge World:


"Hi there. The Fall of Orpheus book was written before the release of the 7th edition 40k rules and so would not take in to account any changes to the way special rules work or interact with each other in the new rules set.
With regards to the new 40k rules set and Codexes we are looking at how they affect our publications and will be publishing erratas for these, where necessary, in due course. Regrettably we are not able to give a more precise date for this at present so please accept our apologies."

It looks to me like this is saying that units such as the pylons should still work as they did in sixth, even including the change to how Skyfire/interceptor works. Does anyone play it like that or are we all collectively waiting for an FAQ that says, "change the Skyfire special rule for the Necron Pylons to a special rule that says, 'the pylon may choose to use the Skyfire special rule at the start of each turn'"?

It seems to me like that would be the sensible way to play it; however do people do this or just accept the new way that it works through the old rules for the most part?

 luke1705 wrote:
So I found an interesting piece of evidence concerning Necron pylons, as I was thinking about AA in the Necron codex (or the relative lack thereof)

The source:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/2d9elg/necon_pylon_has_it_really_been_nerfed_into_the/

The relevant quote, a response from Forge World:


"Hi there. The Fall of Orpheus book was written before the release of the 7th edition 40k rules and so would not take in to account any changes to the way special rules work or interact with each other in the new rules set.
With regards to the new 40k rules set and Codexes we are looking at how they affect our publications and will be publishing erratas for these, where necessary, in due course. Regrettably we are not able to give a more precise date for this at present so please accept our apologies."

It looks to me like this is saying that units such as the pylons should still work as they did in sixth, even including the change to how Skyfire/interceptor works. Does anyone play it like that or are we all collectively waiting for an FAQ that says, "change the Skyfire special rule for the Necron Pylons to a special rule that says, 'the pylon may choose to use the Skyfire special rule at the start of each turn'"?

It seems to me like that would be the sensible way to play it; however do people do this or just accept the new way that it works through the old rules for the most part?

Thing is, when you argue that point you might as well argue that the quad-gun and Icarus lascannon should get to pick as well, seeing they suffered as much from the change without getting their cost adjusted. So while I really want the pylons to work properly, I'd say we all have to wait for the FAQ to arrive or you'd be house ruling in your favour. If your group agrees to treat all instances of skyfire+interceptor as pick each turn, then feel free to do so.

Punisher wrote:
I disagree, the mixed destroyer units are just worse. Their target priority is all over the place, high str ap2 generally wants to shoot at vehicles or elite infantry, while the destroyer just want to shoot at meq/infantry. The range hurts too, since if the destroyers can shoot then they can generally be shot at and thats not where the Heavies want to be. Personally I find running vanilla destroyers better as it allows you to deepstrike them if you need to without sacrificing the great range of the heavies.

As for the destroyer lords, t6 3wounds with a 4+invuln and then RP is pretty tanky and hard to take down. I would just run them with a fast unit like his tomb blades or destroyers and then break off once they get close to something.

Realistically you are only sacrificing 1 x Str5 AP3 shot but gaining a (mostly) guaranteed pen and the ability to actually kill a 2+ save. So you shoot at a unit of marines and don't have 1 x extra shot? what if there is a tanking character with a 2+ or someone you want to try double out? for the benefit of flexibility I think it's worth it. Also, put your heavy destroyers in the back of the unit so If you are shot at they are the last ones to take wounds.

I don't like the idea of trying to JSJ the Destroyer Lords around with a fast moving unit, too many variables in trying to keep him in coherency and as beef cake as he is if he is floating around himself he will be killed by VoF. I mentioned the flayed ones as you can DS a decent sized unit and he can tank for them for a turn and flayed ones kinda fit the "destroyer' theme as well as being awesome.

TompiQ wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
So I found an interesting piece of evidence concerning Necron pylons, as I was thinking about AA in the Necron codex (or the relative lack thereof)

The source:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/2d9elg/necon_pylon_has_it_really_been_nerfed_into_the/

The relevant quote, a response from Forge World:


"Hi there. The Fall of Orpheus book was written before the release of the 7th edition 40k rules and so would not take in to account any changes to the way special rules work or interact with each other in the new rules set.
With regards to the new 40k rules set and Codexes we are looking at how they affect our publications and will be publishing erratas for these, where necessary, in due course. Regrettably we are not able to give a more precise date for this at present so please accept our apologies."

It looks to me like this is saying that units such as the pylons should still work as they did in sixth, even including the change to how Skyfire/interceptor works. Does anyone play it like that or are we all collectively waiting for an FAQ that says, "change the Skyfire special rule for the Necron Pylons to a special rule that says, 'the pylon may choose to use the Skyfire special rule at the start of each turn'"?

It seems to me like that would be the sensible way to play it; however do people do this or just accept the new way that it works through the old rules for the most part?

Thing is, when you argue that point you might as well argue that the quad-gun and Icarus lascannon should get to pick as well, seeing they suffered as much from the change without getting their cost adjusted. So while I really want the pylons to work properly, I'd say we all have to wait for the FAQ to arrive or you'd be house ruling in your favour. If your group agrees to treat all instances of skyfire+interceptor as pick each turn, then feel free to do so.

Kind of figured this was the case. Shame really. I feel like forge world will most likely FAQ this in the favor of the Necrons once they get around to actually creating that document. Plus I think pylons look pretty cool. Might be mostly worthwhile even outside of a FAQ with all of the Flyers/FMC/skimmers floating around. Literally haha

 KiloFiX wrote:
How are Scarabs? I noticed that a lot of Harvest lists only have the minimal 3.

I've been running scarabs. I think the reason your seeing minimal units fielded with the Canoptek Swarm is really because of the solo Spyder and people being obbsessed with the Wraiths. A solo Spyder can't really replace the losses to the scarab swarm fast enough, and you may not want to run the risk of it harming itself producing more scarabs.

Last weekend I had my Canoptek Swarm's Spyder kill itself in turn 3, having suffered a wound each turn producing scarabs. I realise that rolling 1's 3 turns in a row was gak luck, but it happened, and it stung.

The other reasoning I've seen is simply point shaving. I run 10 Spyders in my newest list. If I needed to shave points, I can get a swarm of 3 scarabs up to 13 in my first movement phase. I'm actually running a swarm of 9 and a swarm of 3. By turn 2 I have 20 something scarab bases with 4+RP locked in combat, and I start bumping up the numbers of the squad of 3.

 adamsouza wrote:

 KiloFiX wrote:
How are Scarabs? I noticed that a lot of Harvest lists only have the minimal 3.

I've been running scarabs. I think the reason your seeing minimal units fielded with the Canoptek Swarm is really because of the solo Spyder and people being obbsessed with the Wraiths. A solo Spyder can't really replace the losses to the scarab swarm fast enough, and you may not want to run the risk of it harming itself producing more scarabs.

Last weekend I had my Canoptek Swarm's Spyder kill itself in turn 3, having suffered a wound each turn producing scarabs. I realise that rolling 1's 3 turns in a row was gak luck, but it happened, and it stung.

The other reasoning I've seen is simply point shaving. I run 10 Spyders in my newest list. If I needed to shave points, I can get a swarm of 3 scarabs up to 13 in my first movement phase. I'm actually running a swarm of 9 and a swarm of 3. By turn 2 I have 20 something scarab bases with 4+RP locked in combat, and I start bumping up the numbers of the squad of 3.

Thanks, that's informative.

How do you find the new Entropic in combat though?

 KiloFiX wrote:

How do you find the new Entropic in combat though?

Meh.

I guess it will come in handy agaisnt MC's, but I mostly play against Space Marines, so it hasn't done much for me.

Against vehicles, math hammer says 66% of your attacks will hit, and 16% of them with glance, so in theory a big swarm should be able to down pretty much anything, but I hate relying on rolling 6's. I am notorious for rolling 6's to hit and none to wound.

So I been thinking something along these lines . . .


MonsterCrons (1849pts)

Decurion Detachment

Reclamation Legion

Nemesor Zahndrekh

5x Immortal

8 x Tomb Blade Nebuloscope, Shield Vanes, Twin-linked Gauss Blaster

Ghost Ark, 10x Necron Warrior

20x Necron Warrior

Canoptek Harvest

6 x Canoptek Scarab
1 x Canoptek Spyder
1 x Canoptek Spyder Gloom Prism
6 x Canoptek Wraith Transdimensional Beamer

Tau Empire: Codex (2013) (Allied Detachment)

Commander (Command and Control Node, Early warning override, Multi-spectrum Sensor Suite, Puretide Engram Neurochip, Target lock, Vectored retro-thrusters, Velocity tracker)

XV104 Riptide Ion accelerator, Twin-linked smart missile system, Velocity tracker

10x Kroot


This list is sick! Giving a blob of 20 warriors or a blob of tomb blades Skyfire, Tank Hunter, Monster Hunter, Hit and Run, Interceptor, etc. is just combolicious!

This list provides an uber strong gunline plus a tough as nails fearless assault team. What can't this list handle? I can even add a second unit of kroot for objective secured if testing indicates I need it.

I'm not all that impressed by the change. It allows us to kill MCs and Superheavies, but MCs squish scarab bases like bugs, and the only Superheavies I've run into are Knights, who do the same. I'm seriously considering dropping the Canoptek Harvest in favour of just more wraiths.

3 spyders was already considered a "mini-farm" and the Swarm wasn't an MVP. With only 1, I just don't see the point.

caelim wrote:
I'm not all that impressed by the change. It allows us to kill MCs and Superheavies, but MCs squish scarab bases like bugs, and the only Superheavies I've run into are Knights, who do the same. I'm seriously considering dropping the Canoptek Harvest in favour of just more wraiths.

3 spyders was already considered a "mini-farm" and the Swarm wasn't an MVP. With only 1, I just don't see the point.

You can add Spyders to the Canoptek Swarm.

Please don't tell people that, ugh. No it's quite clear that it's 1 spyder. A minority of people choose to try and work a way around that restriction but those people are literally cheating their opponents.