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In my meta running 18 wraiths makes everyone not want to play anymore. Everyone says they are just tarpits, but if you run it trust me you will understand. I run this list and have won 2 local tournies with it.

CAD
Barge lord

Warriors x 10
Ghost Ark

Warriors x 10
Ghost ark

Triarch stalker x 1
Twin link heavy gauss

Wraiths w/ Whips 3x6

2 Doomsday arks

Death marks 2x5

I have the doomsday arks sit in the back firing downfeild, and the ghost arks with obsec move behind the wraith wing taking objectives with the wraiths pull forward taking the majority of the shots. The stalker is there cause i like stalkers, but if I wanted I could go 3 Heavy destroyers I could. and the barge lord i use for a shooty back field to protect the doomsday arks and the deathmarks are counter deepstrikers able to pop drop pod meltas etc and fliers dont bother me I control the ground so much they have nothing left to take objectives with.

Like I said I have had nothing but success with this. Let me know how you all think of this and what would you change if anything. Thanks!

 Therion wrote:
@Hollismason

Decurion

Reclamation Legion

-Nemesor Zahndrekh
-10 Warriors
-10 Warriors
-5 Immortals
-5 Tomb Blades, Shieldvanes, Nebuloscopes, Particle Beamers
-5 Tomb Blades, Shieldvanes, Nebuloscopes
-5 Tomb Blades, Shieldvanes, Nebuloscopes

Canoptek Harvest

-6 Wraiths
-3 Scarabs
-1 Canoptek Spyder

Destroyer Cult

-Destroyer Lord, Warscythe, Phase Shifter
-3 Destroyers
-3 Destroyers
-3 Destroyers
-3 Heavy Destroyers

Total: 1850p

The Destroyer Lord rides with the Wraiths. Everything else is just shooty, fast and ridiculously hard to kill. It's got 13 independently operating units, and 2 heroes.

I think this is a really good list and better than what I posted, for some reason I always forget to swap for Nemesor. However my big problem is it has no AA at all. That'd be my only issue with it. That and I'd rather go with Transdimensional beamers on the Wraiths, because their a really great weapon in that formation.

So only changes I'd make is going with 5 Wraiths w/ Transdimensional Beamers, then be ten points over!!

Hollismason wrote:


So only changes I'd make is going with 5 Wraiths w/ Transdimensional Beamers, then be ten points over!!

I think you can mix their wargear. So 4 with beamers and 1 without.

I like trying to be able to take the full compliment better odds at rolling a 6 on the wound chart.

I don't see the point of not running Trans beamers on the Canoptek Wraiths, it's 10 points but seriously that things nasty.

Hollismason wrote: However my big problem is it has no AA at all.

Yea it doesn't have dedicated AA, but a few units there can whittle a solo flyer down if they want. Gauss, twin-linked and the ability to otherwise re-roll hits will lead to hits.

Now the question is, what kind of flyer are you worried about? The answer probably is Flyrants and flying Daemons, and there's very few solutions to those. Flyers of your own aren't solutions to them -- Flyrants take care of your flyers much better than your flyers take care of them. So the answer really is either bring your own Flyrants, or take some Tau allies with a ton of skyfire and a fortification, or just realise that your army is so resilient that the flyers will be hard pressed to earn their points back if they swoop all game while you just play the objectives and wipe out the enemy ground presence.

Yeah I think people make good points about just not bringing or bringing 1 Flyer and focus on the ground game.

Tomb Blades are so resilient to Flyrants it's not even funny. Flying Daemon Princes can summon but not a lot of firepower. They usually rely on a 2+ Jink which Tomb Blades ignore cover so you can actually down a Flying Nurgle Daemon Prince eventually...

Flyers like Storm Talons etc.. are difficult though.

I still think MSU is the way to go though with the Decurion, just mass numbers of units from Canoptek Harvets, TombBlades, and the Destroyer Cult.

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah I think people make good points about just not bringing or bringing 1 Flyer and focus on the ground game.

Tomb Blades are so resilient to Flyrants it's not even funny. Flying Daemon Princes can summon but not a lot of firepower. They usually rely on a 2+ Jink which Tomb Blades ignore cover so you can actually down a Flying Nurgle Daemon Prince eventually...

Flyers like Storm Talons etc.. are difficult though.

I still think MSU is the way to go though with the Decurion, just mass numbers of units from Canoptek Harvets, TombBlades, and the Destroyer Cult.

Yep, a single Flyrant will kill about 0.8 Tomb Blades per turn by shooting assuming the re-roll. So, overall, they won't do much.

It's a shame that the Decurion doesn't have an option for a fortification. A Tomb Blade manning the Icarus Lascannon is a pretty nice way to cause a grounding test on a FMC or straight up kill a flyer (you can even get that guy a re-roll 1's to hit from Zandrekhs traits), but it requires an allied CAD.

So what to swap out instead of fliers if you are just ignoring them completely as I think the Decurion lacks serious firepower and one of the few ways to get it is probably the Annihilation Nexus.

Hollismason wrote:
So what to swap out instead of fliers if you are just ignoring them completely as I think the Decurion lacks serious firepower and one of the few ways to get it is probably the Annihilation Nexus.

I don't think that Decurion list I posted lacks anything at all and nothing needs to be swapped out. YMMV.

I really like the ability to have Transdimensional Beamers, and some transports if I'm going that way. Just Preference.

I'm going to be the lone voice in defense of the underdog and say that I think that TL tesla carbines are viable for tomb blades as a skirmish unit. That's because, given their speed, the tomb blades can pretty much guarantee that they will always be around 24" away, meaning that they will always be firing at full effectiveness and any rapid-firing enemy will be at half.

Then you lose the ability to harm vehicles and destroy Wave Serpents.

The problem of Gauss Tomb Blades is that they need to be close for full firepower and that makes them vulnerable.

It all depends on the opponent. Tesla is only slightly better than Guass at max range if the target has 3+ armour or better. If they have 4+ armour or worse then you're gonna want the S5 AP4 Guass, even if you're not in rapid fire range.

Then there's the issue of not being able to contribute to killing mid-AV vehicles with Tesla.

Against fliers the Guass wins out because Tesla doesn't give you anything extra when snap shooting.

There's just so many situations where Guass is better that it makes it hard to choose tesla over Guass.

Literally the only reason for tomb blades to take tesla is because it's last edition and you feel like jinking instead of finding real cover to lurk in.

changemod wrote:
Literally the only reason for tomb blades to take tesla is because it's last edition and you feel like jinking instead of finding real cover to lurk in.

Well, that and the reason that I just gave.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zimko wrote:
It all depends on the opponent. Tesla is only slightly better than Guass at max range if the target has 3+ armour or better. If they have 4+ armour or worse then you're gonna want the S5 AP4 Guass, even if you're not in rapid fire range.

Then there's the issue of not being able to contribute to killing mid-AV vehicles with Tesla.

Against fliers the Guass wins out because Tesla doesn't give you anything extra when snap shooting.

There's just so many situations where Guass is better that it makes it hard to choose tesla over Guass.

The point here is not the killing power of Tesla, _but that it allows you to minimize the opponent's ability to do damage to you_. Because he is out of RF range, but your shooting is unaffected.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And you're unchargeable to boot!

You're taking Tesla guns, because they fire an impressive one shot at max range, over Gauss, which only fire a miserable one shot at max range?

Alcibiades wrote:

changemod wrote:
Literally the only reason for tomb blades to take tesla is because it's last edition and you feel like jinking instead of finding real cover to lurk in.

Well, that and the reason that I just gave.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zimko wrote:
It all depends on the opponent. Tesla is only slightly better than Guass at max range if the target has 3+ armour or better. If they have 4+ armour or worse then you're gonna want the S5 AP4 Guass, even if you're not in rapid fire range.

Then there's the issue of not being able to contribute to killing mid-AV vehicles with Tesla.

Against fliers the Guass wins out because Tesla doesn't give you anything extra when snap shooting.

There's just so many situations where Guass is better that it makes it hard to choose tesla over Guass.

The point here is not the killing power of Tesla, _but that it allows you to minimize the opponent's ability to do damage to you_. Because he is out of RF range, but your shooting is unaffected.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And you're unchargeable to boot!

I think it's a valid point and will certainly come into play in many matchups. I personally favor gauss because of it's I can do something to everything feature when it's on a Tomb Blade, so broader use. It certainly is doable to have a unit of tomb blades with TL tesla for engaging units at range.

At range, I believe the Particle Beamer is better than the Tesla.

As I've mentioned before, the upgrade costs for:

Gauss+Shield Vanes+Nebuloscope

Particle Beamer+Shield Vanes

Particle Beamer+Nebuloscope

Are all identical. So there's really no reason why you can't write one list and swap out for individual matchups. Beamerscope for huge hordes with no save to speak of, Beamervanes for Marine Equivalents who didn't take many vehicles, Gauss/Vanes/Scope everywhere else.

Except then you are tailoring your list... Some people frown upon that.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
You're taking Tesla guns, because they fire an impressive one shot at max range, over Gauss, which only fire a miserable one shot at max range?

Tesla has an average of 1 hit per shot at any range, whereas Gauss has ,66 hits.

That was the whole point of Tesla when it was invented -- it is superior generally at 12"-24" range, and 5th ed. Necrons were designed as a 12"-24" shooting army, which they still are to some extent. Tesla was not invented because of snap shots and overwatch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tyran wrote:
At range, I believe the Particle Beamer is better than the Tesla.

I think that's generally true, with the standard downsides of blast weapons for the beamers (no snap shots).

Personally I have a harassment unit equipped with 2x tesla and 3x beamers. Admittedly this is partly because the tesla tomb blades are by far the coolest-looking variant.

D00MsDAY333 wrote:
In my meta running 18 wraiths makes everyone not want to play anymore. Everyone says they are just tarpits, but if you run it trust me you will understand. I run this list and have won 2 local tournies with it.

CAD
Barge lord

Warriors x 10
Ghost Ark

Warriors x 10
Ghost ark

Triarch stalker x 1
Twin link heavy gauss

Wraiths w/ Whips 3x6

2 Doomsday arks

Death marks 2x5

I have the doomsday arks sit in the back firing downfeild, and the ghost arks with obsec move behind the wraith wing taking objectives with the wraiths pull forward taking the majority of the shots. The stalker is there cause i like stalkers, but if I wanted I could go 3 Heavy destroyers I could. and the barge lord i use for a shooty back field to protect the doomsday arks and the deathmarks are counter deepstrikers able to pop drop pod meltas etc and fliers dont bother me I control the ground so much they have nothing left to take objectives with.

Like I said I have had nothing but success with this. Let me know how you all think of this and what would you change if anything. Thanks!

Yeah I've encountered some similar attitudes towards wraiths, which I do understand. Stalkers are fine, and actually quite resilient. I would probably try it out with the heat ray...it is called a heat ray right lol? The 2 shot melta. I think you're probably lacking a bit in AT. In building this list, I would try and ignore the wraiths' contributions for as long as possible. Meaning, try to build a list that can do everything (or almost everything) without them, so that they don't have to try and fulfill 6 different roles in your army. You only have 3 squads.

I'm not sold on the Doomsday Ark. I feel like any opponent worth his salt is just going to make the thing snapfire each turn. Plus once you own it once, that's pretty much it for the Ark. It may still live for a biit but it's going to be jinking it's pants off. Maybe include some dedicated AA? Or some tomb blades for cheap maelstrom/late game objective cappers

I just don't see any reason to have to bikes fill your tesla role.

Since you pretty much need to run 5 bikes minimum to keep the unit effective, then add the upgrades... wouldn't you be better off just using an annihilation barge at that point?

omerakk wrote:
I just don't see any reason to have to bikes fill your tesla role.

Since you pretty much need to run 5 bikes minimum to keep the unit effective, then add the upgrades... wouldn't you be better off just using an annihilation barge at that point?

There is no Tesla role? There's no law saying you should have so-and-so much Tesla that you have to fill with some unit. The point is that Tesla (pr the Particle Beamer) allows bikes to stay out of RF range of the enemy, and being fast units they can choose their distance, thus minimizing danger to themselves. Which is... more or less what Tesla was originally invented to do in the first place before the edition change to 6th made it interact oddly with the new snap shot rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Remember, Tesla had 2 functions for an army that was designed as short-range shooting but weak in melee and hence vulnerable to charges: 1) it allowed firing over 12" while moving (made pointless by the changes to RF in 6th ed.) and 2) it gave you a 12"-24" range in which you were probably superior to enemy infantry. You were not supposed to close, as you have to with a RF weapon to maximize effect -- you were supposed to keep the enemy at a 24" range so he couldn't charge you.

Actually, there is a Tesla role, which you just explained: a need for midrange firepower while keeping out of the dangers of short range. Even now, a barge does this job better than the bikes.

Bikes are best for the no cover attack, anti-horde beamer, grabbing objectives, or getting rapid fire glancing hits on vehicles. The tesla version of the bike isn't helping with any of that.

Also, there's no law saying you always have to have your bikes in rapid fire range with the gauss load out. You can just as easily fire your single shots from max range and keep yourself safe. Then, later in the game, you can push them up for the rapid fire ability to help finish off a unit when it is safer.

It just seems like a waste to give up the viability of the beamer or gauss for a weapon that is only marginally effective in a smaller amount of circumstances and has a better option (barge) which was built for that midrange ability.

omerakk wrote:
Actually, there is a Tesla role, which you just explained: a need for midrange firepower while keeping out of the dangers of short range. Even now, a barge does this job better than the bikes.

Bikes are best for the no cover attack, anti-horde beamer, grabbing objectives, or getting rapid fire glancing hits on vehicles. The tesla version of the bike isn't helping with any of that.

Also, there's no law saying you always have to have your bikes in rapid fire range with the gauss load out. You can just as easily fire your single shots from max range and keep yourself safe. Then, later in the game, you can push them up for the rapid fire ability to help finish off a unit when it is safer.

It just seems like a waste to give up the viability of the beamer or gauss for a weapon that is only marginally effective in a smaller amount of circumstances and has a better option (barge) which was built for that midrange ability.

Barges are not vulnerable to RF weapons at all, though (though they are to being charged).

Really now that I think of it the prime platform for tesla carbines is Immortals (the unit that they were probably invented for), because not only does it keep you out of RF range, it keeps you out of the range iof melta guns, which will ID Immortals.

It's a good choice for immortals, I'll agree with that.

IMO, the best choice for immortals is leaving them on the shelf and picking tomb blades instead.

Then again, depends on if you're running a decurion or not. If you do, reserve a 5-man squad and pour the rest of your points into TBs. If it's a cad, I suppose you need the troops, but you'd still preferably keep them in a NS.

How do I find a way to kill one of my Necron Warriors in the first turn so that I can add the Overlord to the unit in the Ghost Ark?