New Necrons 7th Edition Tactica

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**FTGTEvan**

Requizen wrote:
FTGTEvan wrote:
I've been a fan of super MSU Crons of late, and in that case I run him stock unless I find some random points at the end. Went 5-1 at NOVA with him totally stock hanging out in units of Warriors or Immortals.

I've come to a similar conclusion as of late. Our Deathstars are great, except against other Deathstars or GCs/SHVs. As we don't have a really fast Deathstar (as seem to be the ones that work nowadays), I'm more inclined to just go MSU and mitigate it.

What does your MSU list look like? Are you a Decurion? I think the DCult works great for a MSU list as Destroyer units are pretty durable and mobile, as well as killy for their points costs.

The list I ran was Decurion with just the minimums (Tomb Blades had 3+ and Nebs) and 4 min harvests. I then added an Eldar Aspect Host with 3x7 Warp Spiders. My immediate takeaway was to drop a Warp Spider from each squad (and the Exarch's equipment) for a second unit of Tomb Blades. Having 4 harvests gives a bit of a Scarab farm element, and I found myself pumping 3-4 into one squad each turn, though I would usually bounce from one squad (which was then thrown forward) and another.

**Requizen**

Zimko wrote:
I was 4 - 2 at NOVA this year with a Decurion containing Harvest, Jud and DCult.

Spoiler:

Rec Legion
Zhandrekh
10x Warriors
10x Warriors
5x Immortals
3x Tomb Blades w/ shields and neb

Harvest
3x Wraiths w/ whip coils
3x scarabs
1x spyder

Jud
5x Praets w/ Rods
5x Praets w/ Rods
(Nova ruled that they could shoot and assault with rods)
1x Stalker

DCult
DLord w/ Warscythe, Phase Shifter
2x Destroyer, 1x Heavy Destroyer
2x Destroyer, 1x Heavy Destroyer
2x Destroyer, 1x Heavy Destroyer
2x Heavy Destroyer

My two loses were both in relic missions vs objective secured units. The first was against Tomb King's Eldar/Tau list (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/662831.page). He swooped in with jetbikes on the last turn to control the relic. I tried to surround it but he just shot up a few Destroyers and made himself a hole. This list was really tough but I was happy to squeak out 12 points to his 18.

The second loss (relic and Hammer and Anvil deployment) was against a Gladius formation with Khan and a unit of Cents. The Cents killed my wraiths right off the bat but then my Praets killed them in return. The rest of the game was just a frantic race to try and kill his objective secured units. It didn't work since he was able to outflank and tank shock onto my objectives due to the hammer and anvil deployment. I did manage to surround one of his razorbacks and kill it and the unit inside with warriors, so that was a small victory.

My other games were against a Gladius without Khan, 2 different triple Tyrant lists and an Eldar list.

I hope to post more detailed reports in the Battle Report section this weekend. But regarding the discussion of MSU... yeah I think MSU is the way to go. If I ran a deathstar, it would not have changed the outcome of my two losses. I simply wouldn't have enough units to kill all the objective secured models.

Do you find the Judicator Battalion worthwhile? Obviously nice to get S5 AP2 guns in a MSU list, but the Stalker feels like a real tax. What did it end up doing in your games?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

FTGTEvan wrote:
Requizen wrote:
FTGTEvan wrote:
I've been a fan of super MSU Crons of late, and in that case I run him stock unless I find some random points at the end. Went 5-1 at NOVA with him totally stock hanging out in units of Warriors or Immortals.

I've come to a similar conclusion as of late. Our Deathstars are great, except against other Deathstars or GCs/SHVs. As we don't have a really fast Deathstar (as seem to be the ones that work nowadays), I'm more inclined to just go MSU and mitigate it.

What does your MSU list look like? Are you a Decurion? I think the DCult works great for a MSU list as Destroyer units are pretty durable and mobile, as well as killy for their points costs.

The list I ran was Decurion with just the minimums (Tomb Blades had 3+ and Nebs) and 4 min harvests. I then added an Eldar Aspect Host with 3x7 Warp Spiders. My immediate takeaway was to drop a Warp Spider from each squad (and the Exarch's equipment) for a second unit of Tomb Blades. Having 4 harvests gives a bit of a Scarab farm element, and I found myself pumping 3-4 into one squad each turn, though I would usually bounce from one squad (which was then thrown forward) and another.

Ah, I forgot there were no restrictions at NOVA. With most things making each Detachment and Formation unique, and limiting CtA allies, what would yours look like?

**vipoid**

With regard to taking multiple Canoptek harvests, it seems like it would quickly become a massive pain to try and work out which scarabs and wraiths are tied to which spyder.

**MLKTH**

The best pure necron MSU list I can think of is decurion with a reclamation legion (3 x 3 bikes but otherwise minimum), a destroyer cult (minimum, no heavies, just a warscythe on the lord) and three minimum harvests. At 1850 that leaves 65 points for wargear or a few additional models on some units. You could even add a unit of flayed ones to truly have as many units on the table as possible.

And yeah, running multiple harvests can get pretty damn annoying.

**Requizen**

Again, a lot of tournaments won't allow multiple Harvests, though.

I mean, they should. I think anyone who allows GCs and Superheavies but limits Formations really has some misconceptions about powerlevels. But hey, that's just my opinion.

**FTGTEvan**

Honestly, not sure what I would do to make it ITC compliant. Might add some flayed ones and tau allies in some fashion. Fortunately, I have no plans to attend an ITC event anytime soon, so haven't had to worry about it too much. I do worry about losing critical mass on the harvests with only 2.

**Zimko**

Requizen wrote:
Zimko wrote:
I was 4 - 2 at NOVA this year with a Decurion containing Harvest, Jud and DCult.

I hope to post more detailed reports in the Battle Report section this weekend. But regarding the discussion of MSU... yeah I think MSU is the way to go. If I ran a deathstar, it would not have changed the outcome of my two losses. I simply wouldn't have enough units to kill all the objective secured models.

Do you find the Judicator Battalion worthwhile? Obviously nice to get S5 AP2 guns in a MSU list, but the Stalker feels like a real tax. What did it end up doing in your games?

In some games the Stalker was indeed a tax. It mostly just sat on an objective. In 3 out of 6 games it died on an objective. Once against Warp Spiders, once against a Flyrant and once against melta drop pod.

The other three games it survived. The one against eldar was vanguard deployment and it did nothing but sit on an objective. Against a Tyranid player, he charged into my lines with Shrikes who had just annihilated my Wraiths and DLord in combat. I then realized he couldn't hurt AV 13 and charged the Shrikes with the Stalker. They stayed locked in combat for the rest of the game.

It got it's most use in my first game against a non-Khan gladius formation. I was able to give +1 BS to all my Destroyers while shooting down transports from the safety of ruins. The deployment was Dawn of War and made it much easier to keep them together and in range.

All in all, the Jud. Battelion had some great matchups and some bad ones. The Praets performed brilliantly in every game. They surprised my opponents with their speed and AP2 weapons. But the Stalker just didn't do much.

**sieGermans**

Zimko wrote:
Requizen wrote:
Zimko wrote:
I was 4 - 2 at NOVA this year with a Decurion containing Harvest, Jud and DCult.

I hope to post more detailed reports in the Battle Report section this weekend. But regarding the discussion of MSU... yeah I think MSU is the way to go. If I ran a deathstar, it would not have changed the outcome of my two losses. I simply wouldn't have enough units to kill all the objective secured models.

Do you find the Judicator Battalion worthwhile? Obviously nice to get S5 AP2 guns in a MSU list, but the Stalker feels like a real tax. What did it end up doing in your games?

In some games the Stalker was indeed a tax. It mostly just sat on an objective. In 3 out of 6 games it died on an objective. Once against Warp Spiders, once against a Flyrant and once against melta drop pod.

The other three games it survived. The one against eldar was vanguard deployment and it did nothing but sit on an objective. Against a Tyranid player, he charged into my lines with Shrikes who had just annihilated my Wraiths and DLord in combat. I then realized he couldn't hurt AV 13 and charged the Shrikes with the Stalker. They stayed locked in combat for the rest of the game.

It got it's most use in my first game against a non-Khan gladius formation. I was able to give +1 BS to all my Destroyers while shooting down transports from the safety of ruins. The deployment was Dawn of War and made it much easier to keep them together and in range.

All in all, the Jud. Battelion had some great matchups and some bad ones. The Praets performed brilliantly in every game. They surprised my opponents with their speed and AP2 weapons. But the Stalker just didn't do much.

This has been my experience with Stalkers as well. It is usually a panic to not grant first blood, as well, against drop meltas, and the like.

**skoffs**

When you guys lose your Stalker straight off the bat, is it a case of your enemy knowing what it can do and therefore wanting to get rid of it ASAP, or was it just a case of "Whelp, I brought all this anti-vehicle stuff and all he's got is that one there, soooo..."
?

**vipoid**

How do you guys run Judicator Battalions? Min or max praetorians? And, Rods or Voidblades?

**FL5**

skoffs wrote:
When you guys lose your Stalker straight off the bat... ...was it just a case of "Whelp, I brought all this anti-vehicle stuff and all he's got is that one there, soooo..."
?

Pretty much that one. Stalker doesn't reanimate, and it can't jink. In an army full of absurdly durable units, Stalker is the weak link, and is the only reasonable target for any ranged anti-tank.

**Zimko**

skoffs wrote:
When you guys lose your Stalker straight off the bat, is it a case of your enemy knowing what it can do and therefore wanting to get rid of it ASAP, or was it just a case of "Whelp, I brought all this anti-vehicle stuff and all he's got is that one there, soooo..."
?

Ranged anti-tank was of no threat to the stalker since it was usually out of LOS or in ruins. Most of the ranged anti-tank was used against destroyers.

I usually only lose it as a afterthought. It never gave up first blood. My opponent just needed to remove it because it was on an objective. In one game it was removed by a flying hive tyrant who simply had nothing else in range because it was trying to get linebreaker. In another game, my opponent drop podded a melta unit near it. The melta unit could have been used against destroyers but the stalker was on an objective and the melta was all but guaranteed to destroy the stalker. It didn't give up first blood that game either.

I'd say most of my opponents simply weren't afraid of the stalker. It wasn't a threat. It merely an obstacle holding an objective.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

vipoid wrote:
How do you guys run Judicator Battalions? Min or max praetorians? And, Rods or Voidblades?

I run them in minimum units, all with Rods. I find the AP 2 to be invaluable. Voidblades don't seem worth it to me. If I want more volume of attacks and rending, I'd just run Wraiths. The AP 2 fills a niche.

**krodarklorr**

Zimko wrote:

vipoid wrote:
How do you guys run Judicator Battalions? Min or max praetorians? And, Rods or Voidblades?

I run them in minimum units, all with Rods. I find the AP 2 to be invaluable. Voidblades don't seem worth it to me. If I want more volume of attacks and rending, I'd just run Wraiths. The AP 2 fills a niche.

I run 2 five man units, each with a different weapon. The Voidblades are awesome. The S6 shooting can more easily kill a lightly armor vehicle, and you have 4 attacks on the charge each, at AP4 base (better for chewing through light-heavy infantry than Wraiths), still with rending, and they're 28 points a pop, instead of 40. Plus, they always have reanimation.

That's just me, personally, though.

**FTGTEvan**

You guys are selling me on Judicator Bat (it was one of my favorites when the codex dropped, but mostly from a model perspective. Now I just need 5 more Praetorians (have 5 NOS and 10 assembled as Lychguard)

**Requizen**

I would even consider just putting the Stalker in reserve and walking it on. My experience has been "Oh, that thing buffs your army and is open-topped with no saves? First Blood!".

Of course, that depends on how much cover the table has. If there's enough to hide it behind and allow it to buff JSJ Heavy Destroyers, then that's a different story.

Praetorians in the formation are A+. MTC Jump Infantry with power weapons are actually not terrible, especially when they have 4+ RP. Praetorians are comparable to Vanguard Veterans with Power Weapons price wise, but more durable and ignore Dangerous/Difficult. And that's really really good. Plus, getting Fearless in this book made them much better against things like Deathstars. The only downside is that there's no good way to put a character with them, much like Wraiths.

**MLKTH**

Requizen wrote:
The only downside is that there's no good way to put a character with them, much like Wraiths.

If it's buff characters like Orikan or Zahndrekh, conga-lining and/or spreading out a max sized unit works preffy well. You can get pretty much the same reach you would without the characters if you do it correctly. The characters won't always reach combat in the first round, but in this case it's not that big of a deal.

**Requizen**

MLKTH wrote:
Requizen wrote:
The only downside is that there's no good way to put a character with them, much like Wraiths.

If it's buff characters like Orikan or Zahndrekh, conga-lining and/or spreading out a max sized unit works preffy well. You can get pretty much the same reach you would withot the characters if you do it correctly. The characters won't always reach combat in the first round, but in this case it's not that big of a deal.

Eeeh, I really dislike the whole "stringing a unit back" thing. It's fine for a turn, but then if the enemy is playing back and you can't get a turn 2 or 3 charge off, he's a serious anchor.

The DLord is a bit better at it since he can Thrust Move up, but it's still imperfect.

**vipoid**

I thought the D Lord couldn't thrust move up, since only units can do that (rather than models)?

**Requizen**

vipoid wrote:
I thought the D Lord couldn't thrust move up, since only units can do that (rather than models)?

It comes up a lot in YMDC. I think most tourneys rule that you can use Thrust in mixed units. Tau have been doing it forever, so the standing precedent is to say that they can.

**krodarklorr**

Requizen wrote:
vipoid wrote:
I thought the D Lord couldn't thrust move up, since only units can do that (rather than models)?

It comes up a lot in YMDC. I think most tourneys rule that you can use Thrust in mixed units. Tau have been doing it forever, so the standing precedent is to say that they can.

Hmm, I'm tempted to try it again, as much as I hate to admit it.

**vipoid**

I still want to try attaching a D Lord to a unit of deathmarks in reserve.

They use Ethereal Interceptors to deep strike in the enemy turn, then the Lord detaches in my turn and charges something.

**krodarklorr**

vipoid wrote:
I still want to try attaching a D Lord to a unit of deathmarks in reserve.

They use Ethereal Interceptors to deep strike in the enemy turn, then the Lord detaches in my turn and charges something.

That.....

IS GENIUS.

Oh, if only I felt like playing 40k again...

**vipoid**

Not in the mood at the moment?

**krodarklorr**

vipoid wrote:
Not in the mood at the moment?

Nah, 40k is pretty terrible in my eyes currently, as much as I love my Necrons.

**vipoid**

krodarklorr wrote:
vipoid wrote:
Not in the mood at the moment?

Nah, 40k is pretty terrible in my eyes currently, as much as I love my Necrons.

Can't argue with that.

**Requizen**

Do you think it's better to have 3 units of 4+ Tomb Blades or 2 units of 3+?

Trying to make points fit and really the only places I can pare down are in the Tomb Blades.

**krodarklorr**

Requizen wrote:
Do you think it's better to have 3 units of 4+ Tomb Blades or 2 units of 3+?

Trying to make points fit and really the only places I can pare down are in the Tomb Blades.

Realistically, 2 units of 3+ would be my bet, but I run them in a single unit of 6, cuz I go against the crowd.

**vipoid**

Requizen wrote:
Do you think it's better to have 3 units of 4+ Tomb Blades or 2 units of 3+?

Are you sure that shouldn't be the other way round?

**Requizen**

vipoid wrote:
Requizen wrote:
Do you think it's better to have 3 units of 4+ Tomb Blades or 2 units of 3+?

Are you sure that shouldn't be the other way round?

I meant saves, not number. They'd all be min units, but I could have 2 units with Shield Vanes for the 3+ armor or 3 units with baseline 4+ armor.

**vipoid**

Ah, I see.

Well, I'll stick my vote in for 3 units of 4+ dudes.

Even with worse saves, that's still 50% more wounds, 50% more firepower and another unit to claim objectives and such.