New Necrons 7th Edition Tactica

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**krodarklorr**

luke1705 wrote:
I don't know if I would call him subpar. With decent threat saturation, he's not awful (and really any BLOS terrain should keep him safe from the D for a turn, especially if you are conclaving him so he can fire with full effectiveness turn 2). The idea that "there is D in the game so he's too many points invested in one unit" is a little off to me. Did we stop taking land raiders because of D? Did we stop taking wraithknights because of D? No, because they have their merits. (I mean land raiders not really but you get my point). I don't think that the Nightbringer is so many points that I would worry about him getting the D and losing a huge chunk of my army. Plus his invuln isn't awful, and he could definitely get 3+ cover with night fighting.

C'tans are terrible in general now, even with the conclave. In a game where everyone spams as much high strength shooting as possible and mobility is the name of the game, all of the C'tans are just not worth it. Sure, put the Nightbringer in the Conclave. That's a ton more points you've invested in a still slow moving MC that will die to any amount of fire power. And on his own, he's a Land Raider that dies to bolt guns before getting anywhere. The Deceiver is the same way, except he can't heal himself (But it's okay, he has plenty of wounds! Oh wait...)

And people stop taking Land Raiders because of things like Gauss, Grav, D, melta spam, haywire spam, ext. Vehicles are just not good right now, and D being flown around isn't helping. Also, people are still taking the Wraithknight because it's the thing flinging around the D, and it's cheap enough and durable enough that it's worth it. A C'tan, however, is not.

**Xafilah**

So guise, I finally got enough plastic dudesmen together to play a game at ~900 points. Tell me how I should play, using the resources I've got.
HQ:
1 'Cryptek'

Troops:
31 warriors
5 Immortals

Elites:
5 deathmarks

Fast Attack:
8 Scarabs
1 Ghost Ark

I got all these from a box of warriors and the battle box. Please tell me how I should work with these.

**FTGTEvan**

Xafilah wrote:
So guise, I finally got enough plastic dudesmen together to play a game at ~900 points. Tell me how I should play, using the resources I've got.

Spoiler:

HQ:
1 'Cryptek'

Troops:
31 warriors
5 Immortals

Elites:
5 deathmarks

Fast Attack:
8 Scarabs
1 Ghost Ark

I got all these from a box of warriors and the battle box. Please tell me how I should work with these.

Well, basic tactic/deployment would be to walk the two blocks of warriors along side the Ghost Ark and march them up the board. The Cryptek probably goes with them. Scarabs you'll want to put on a weak flank and try to pincer in weak objective grabbers and the like, though 40 attacks on the charge is not shabby at all. Make sure to position wounded bases away from threats to take advantage of their multi-wounds.

**skoffs**

Please keep tactic threads about tactics.
Army lists should be posted in the army list section.

**Xafilah**

FTGTEvan wrote:

Well, basic tactic/deployment would be to walk the two blocks of warriors along side the Ghost Ark and march them up the board. The Cryptek probably goes with them. Scarabs you'll want to put on a weak flank and try to pincer in weak objective grabbers and the like, though 40 attacks on the charge is not shabby at all. Make sure to position wounded bases away from threats to take advantage of their multi-wounds.

Kewl. Thanks alot. Since it's probably going to be Tau, I was thinking running the Scarabs as an Immortal screen, but his makes sense too.

I'll stop now

**willow**

A couple of questions for the more seasoned Overlords here...

1) Are there any ways of mitigating the damage from D-scythes to a decurion aside from spreading your units out? The way I see it, D cancels out both the saves and the rp, so you're basically removing models. The downside is that spreading out makes it easy to pick off isolated blocks of stuff, and we're as slow as WG.

To a lesser extent, this also applies to Grav and/or any abundant amount of shooting that ignores one or both of the "saving rolls" we get to make.

2) If the Decurion's durability is called into question above, does this make a case for going for CAD or Mephrit detachments?

**Slayer-Fan123**

Grav honestly isn't TOO big a deal. However, there's not much to do about D Scythes. Spreading out helps, but there's a number of ways to simply get the Wraithguard in a great position.

**Forfiter**

willow wrote:
A couple of questions for the more seasoned Overlords here...

1) Are there any ways of mitigating the damage from D-scythes to a decurion aside from spreading your units out? The way I see it, D cancels out both the saves and the rp, so you're basically removing models. The downside is that spreading out makes it easy to pick off isolated blocks of stuff, and we're as slow as WG.

To a lesser extent, this also applies to Grav and/or any abundant amount of shooting that ignores one or both of the "saving rolls" we get to make.

2) If the Decurion's durability is called into question above, does this make a case for going for CAD or Mephrit detachments?

One artifact - Solar staff can protect one your unit with IC's and everything from D-Scythe for 1 turn. Consider it, it's very powerfull now (makes only snap shots possible - template cannot snap shot).

Also, to previous discussion about CCB, C'Tan and D - stop fear D-weapons so much! I know they are undercosted and everything, but:

1) Wraithguards have short range and won't get into it without transport or dark eldar deep strike. If they have transport, they are already at cost or above our CCB, C'Tan, Monolith or every other unit. If Eldar player will move it to destroy your unit, it will probably die next turn and point-wise - he lost.

2) vs dark eldar deep striking eldar D or Droppods with strong melta spam or other things - deathmarks are amazing protection! i tend to use them to protect my key targets like CCB or C'Tan if i want to use it

3) T C'Tan or Shards in COTBO with Cryptek with veil can deep strike, so they won't die turn 1 before shooting and can earn their points. Same with monolith.

4) Wraithknight - okay, i know he is strong. But actually deathmarks can try to eliminate them. Or you can tarpit them with something. moreover, mentioned Nightbringer can 1-turn shot him with luck or at least hurt him (with Gaze or powers).

5) cover your units. In my group, we tend to use many ruins, and there you can hide your units! D weapons (<6 roll) still can be saved by cover save. Especially with Nemesor stealth in ruin trait. Moreover, your Wraiths and C'Tans can easly be hidden from sight in ruins (they can walk freely thru them), so they can strike from them in good moment. D-scythe ignores cover, but still night LOS to strike and have short range and low mobility outside transport (and for it, check point 1)

**harkequin**

willow wrote:
A couple of questions for the more seasoned Overlords here...

1) Are there any ways of mitigating the damage from D-scythes to a decurion aside from spreading your units out? The way I see it, D cancels out both the saves and the rp, so you're basically removing models. The downside is that spreading out makes it easy to pick off isolated blocks of stuff, and we're as slow as WG.

To a lesser extent, this also applies to Grav and/or any abundant amount of shooting that ignores one or both of the "saving rolls" we get to make.

2) If the Decurion's durability is called into question above, does this make a case for going for CAD or Mephrit detachments?

D-scythes arent too bad for our stronger units. Lychstar can tank them for days.
Assuming 5 lychguard + orikan against 5 WG
1 lychguard dies from overwatch , and assuming each WG gets 3 models per template, they will only kill 1 on the drop. So we have lost 60 points and are in a combat that we will win.

Wraiths are another option, with a 3++ and no RP anyway, with 2 wounds they have a 1/3 chance to survive a D-scythe wound + they have bigger bases and more speed so will be hit less by templates. They do suffer on the overwatch though, losing 1-2 wraiths per 5 WG.

Other than that , deathmarks. Barring a bad scatter (you have a 1/3 chance of direct hit anyway) they will neuter WG squads. 10 deepstriking into rapid fire will kill 5 wraithguard before they get to shoot at all.

20 x 2/3 = 14 hits
14 x 1/6 = 2 rends (and 2 failed wounds)
10 wounds x 1/3 = 3 dead ( +2 from rends).

180 points has killed 200, has saved your unit, and has royally screwed what ever alpha strike plan they had.
Bonus points if they delivered the squad by WWP archon who is now on his own and will die to deathmarks charging him since they can't shoot.

**MLKTH**

The problem with Deathmarks is that wraithguard are usually in wave serpents and you might not have time to wreck them before your deathmarks arrive from reserves. If the WWP-trick is common in your local meta, then deathmarks are a pretty good counter.

I've been thinking about switching back to sword & shield lychguard because I've started encountering more D-weapons, not just on eldar but also the D-thirster in daemon armies (from WD dataslate, it's not as problematic in KDK armies where it won't be invisible and can be shot down). Warscythes are better against almost everything else, as they're cheaper and hit so much harder, but D-weapons bypassing their RP makes durability a real problem.

**vipoid**

How do you guys use lychguard in general?

I still can't get around the fact that they're a melee unit with a 6" move and no assault transport.

**Requizen**

Orikanstar can kind of just walk/run up the field with little issue. Until, you know, you run into a GC/Superheavy and they get D'd or Stomp'd out.

You can load them up in a Night Scythe, which is actually pretty ok. Since they don't care about Snap Firing, you can fly up 36", unload 6", and run d6. If you have reserve manipulation (Zahndrekh or Imotekh with possible Comms Relay), that's a 42"+d6" threat range on turn 2, and few things can run far enough to evade the charge on T3.

Veil is another option and gives you the possibility of a T2 charge. But, I just have issues with the full-scatter Deep Strike, especially if you're running a full unit with attached ICs. I know the chance of just losing everything is pretty low... but it happens. And it sucks.

Really, as much as I love Lychguard, they do need a lot of support to go from good to great. You need to build around them, which can be pretty rough sometimes.

**Slayer-Fan123**

I think the Night Scythe is overall the best option in a Decurion. Just have Nemesor take a new Warlord Trait on T2 and a T3 charge is possible thanks to that delicious 4+++. It's even possible to do it with multiple squads, but this really only works in larger games.

**Requizen**

Additionally, since you don't have to worry about footslogging and less fire therein, Scytheguard are much more viable in a Night Scythe. Especially if you fit in a Chronometron Cryptek.

**buddha**

vipoid wrote:
How do you guys use lychguard in general?

I still can't get around the fact that they're a melee unit with a 6" move and no assault transport.

In a decurion I like them with a destroyer lord who has the veil tricked out for combat (PE is awesome with them) and a chump overlord with just the solar staff. Pop the staff and veil them to wherever they are needed on the board and they won't be taking much of any damage while they sit there. You don't even need to max them out with this setup. Even just 5 with the characters willl wreck just about anything in the game.

**MLKTH**

One very basic thing that makes lychguard/orikanstar, and slow but hardhitting and very durable assault units in general, better is making a 12" by 12" by 12" triangle of objectives at the center of the board (or somewhere central anyway). The tactic is scenario-dependent, obviously, but assuming maelstrom where there are six objectives, that's half of them the lychguard can reach easily once they get in the middle by walking or teleporting with a veil. The opponent can avoid the lychguard, sure, but it'll make scoring objectives a lot harder for them.

It's not something you do in every game, of course, but I find it to be a good default tactic.

**krodarklorr**

vipoid wrote:
How do you guys use lychguard in general?

I still can't get around the fact that they're a melee unit with a 6" move and no assault transport.

I put an Overlord with a bunch of upgrades with 5 Sword and Board Lychguard, and they just don't die. Thus, I walk them across the board.

**vipoid**

krodarklorr wrote:
vipoid wrote:
How do you guys use lychguard in general?

I still can't get around the fact that they're a melee unit with a 6" move and no assault transport.

I put an Overlord with a bunch of upgrades with 5 Sword and Board Lychguard, and they just don't die. Thus, I walk them across the board.

But, doesn't your opponent just avoid them?

**Solar Shock**

So I faced shieldguard overlord last game. Campaign, no relics, no SC's. My first thing was to avoid it, I avoided it most of the game, but at a certain point a mystery obj was revealed that basically was a huge boon to either player. His shieldguard basically deterred me from entering the centre of the board most of the game and to that extent it worked pretty well. I charged it one turn, as I needed to draw him off of an objective, but in general I felt its strengths were board control and the ability to prevent StWl (as in the campaign if your WL died or lived you either lost or gained stats).

Through the use of the shieldguard and some wraiths he had pretty good board control, as any units I wanted alive or not tied up I had to think carefully about movement. I lost the game overall but I thought pretty highly of shieldguard. Had they been sytheguard i'd have blown them off the map with AP2 SAG shots. (I had lots of SAG that game)

**skoffs**

vipoid wrote:
krodarklorr wrote:
vipoid wrote:
How do you guys use lychguard in general?

I still can't get around the fact that they're a melee unit with a 6" move and no assault transport.

I put an Overlord with a bunch of upgrades with 5 Sword and Board Lychguard, and they just don't die. Thus, I walk them across the board.

But, doesn't your opponent just avoid them?

And herein lies the crux of the problem. They're a steamroller unit. They're able to just roll on up the table without worry... but, like a steamroller, the best way to avoid being crushed by it is to just stay out of its way.

**Requizen**

vipoid wrote:
krodarklorr wrote:
vipoid wrote:
How do you guys use lychguard in general?

I still can't get around the fact that they're a melee unit with a 6" move and no assault transport.

I put an Overlord with a bunch of upgrades with 5 Sword and Board Lychguard, and they just don't die. Thus, I walk them across the board.

But, doesn't your opponent just avoid them?

Depends on the mission. If you can plunk it on an important objective, they have to fight it. If you can line it up in front of your other valuable stuff, they have to go through the Lychguard.

They're not like Wraiths, which you just run forward and attack with. They're more of a brick that you have to goad them into fighting.

**vipoid**

Another question, guys - what are out best tools for dealing with Gargantuan Creatures? How do we handle WKs and such?

**Anrakyr-the-Traveller**

vipoid wrote:
Another question, guys - what are out best tools for dealing with Gargantuan Creatures? How do we handle WKs and such?

This was covered a few pages back, if you want more input you can look there. I think our best options are the Destroyer cult with heavy destroyers, massed gauss firepower, or tarpitting them with wraiths (maybe not the best option because of stomp).

**Oberron**

vipoid wrote:
Another question, guys - what are out best tools for dealing with Gargantuan Creatures? How do we handle WKs and such?

Personally I like to use a unit of deathmarks with a D.lord with solar staff in the unit. Won't kill but come very very close then the D.lord chases it around with the solar staff to keep it blind

**vipoid**

How do you keep a WK blind when it's I5?

**Solar Shock**

vipoid wrote:
How do you keep a WK blind when it's I5?

Damn good rollin'!

So I am taking my first force that is more crons than anything else to my next game and I managed to squeeze in a Min Decurion and a harvest alongside my orks. But my question is;

To ghost ark or not to ark?

So in general do you guys always take GArks? In my local scene I haven't seen many, everyone appears to footslog their warriors (speaking from only seeing a couple Cron players games recently) However on paper the GArk looks pretty potent to me? Its mobile, open-topped and allows for repairing of units. I am wondering whether I should be attempting to squeeze a couple in for my Min sized Decurion.

I have the models and currently my list is 1500, but my next game could be 1500-2000, so if I need to make up those extra points are GArks worth it?

**skoffs**

Depends. Any other vehicles? If not, I wouldn't count on keeping it very long, as all of your opponent's anti-AV will be focused on it from turn one.

**Xafilah**

Ghost Arks are generally considered our best vehicle, as they give our troops mobility and fire power on the (relative) cheap. With pretty much all sides av13 and jink, they're fairly durable too. The large majority of competitive decurions I have seen run at least one.

**Requizen**

Ghost Arks are quite good now. Extremely cheap (well, at least compared to non-SM vehicles) and immune to small arms fire, can Jink and still put out good shooting from the dudes inside, and can even do fun things like Tank Shock. I'd wager that a list with 4-5 Ghost Arks would be pretty hard for many people to crack.

Except Wraithknights. But then, what can you do about that? (The answer so far is nothing that I've found).

**Ghaz**

Requizen wrote:
... and can even do fun things like Tank Shock.

You must be a 'Tank' or have a special rule that allows a non-Tank vehicle to perform a Tank Shock (e.g., the Ork 'Reinforced Ram' vehicle upgrade). The Ghost Ark has neither of these.