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I played against a Tau CAD with my Daemons last week. Not using the Hunter Contingent, but he did have the Gunrig and a Stormsurge. Not enough info at the moment, I'm afraid.

I don't think there's a lot specifically that we need to fear yet. Solar Staff gets a bit worse because they can use Combined Fire + Markerlights to bump up BS, and if you were running an army that relied heavily on Jink (like mass Ghost Arks or lots of Tomb Blades), the same thing but with Ignores Cover.

But, things like Orikanstar and Wraiths are still just as durable. They have a few more things that can ID us at S10, but honestly if you're already used to dealing with Eldar straight up ignoring RP with D then you're already fine.

The Stormsurge is not nearly as scary as the Wraithknight imo, but it's still something to look out for. I tied it up with Screamerstar in that game, but Stomps are still a thing. Still, it's about the same required effort to kill for most of our shooting (though Destroyers have a nice time wounding on 5s), but easier to kill in Assault (Hyperphase Swords wound on 5s, Warscythes on 3s, Wraiths on 4s), so charging it with an Assault unit will usually do the trick. As is normal for Tau.

The things that are really scared of the new Tau are Deathstars or other power units that rely on Invis or heavy cover, thanks to Markerlight sharing. I guess the big thing will be when we see which formations really come through. The Suit one that comes in on T2 automatically and Deep Strikes a bunch of scary stuff could be a new standard in the future.

They haven't really changed much for Necrons, I think.

So I'm debating playing this god forsaken game again. What about the new Tau do I really need to look out for?

 krodarklorr wrote:
So I'm debating playing this god forsaken game again. What about the new Tau do I really need to look out for?

haven't played the new tau yet but from what I can see don't vehicle spam them since they have a way to always hit the rear armor on a vehicle. Otherwise from that everything is just about the same.

How likely is it that the formation is able to hit the rear armor? I don't know its rules and knowing such ahead of time will allow me to come up with better ways to deploy my Arks.

 krodarklorr wrote:
So I'm debating playing this god forsaken game again. What about the new Tau do I really need to look out for?

The book wasn't a major update. The only things that seem to have changed from 6e units is that Riptides can be in units now and Crisis suits can be in squadrons of 9. I think some of the "one per army" wargear may have changed to be more widespread (FNP thingy, for instance). So, fighting old units is about the same with only small tweaks.

The new models to look out for:

Commander can take an option to become a FMC but it's really not that great. Probably won't see it outside of casual games or gimmick lists, really easy to kill.

New Breachers are kinda cool (really strong guns if they get within 8"), but if Tau get that close we're just gonna kill them. We don't really care about AP2 that much with RP.

Ghostkeel is kind of interesting. Jet Pack Monstrous Creature with a good gun that can come in units and always has Cover saves. Probably Wraith fodder, but for the rest of our army relatively tough to take down. MC spam Tau might be a very real thing.

The Stormsurge is a pretty solid piece of equipment. While, again, Necrons are among the armies that care least about large amounts of long range fire thanks to our durability, just be aware that if this thing anchors down behind an enemy line you might be in for more hurt than you're used to. And if you assault it, the thing still has Stomp, probably a 4++, and FNP, so don't expect to steamroll it as easily as most of their other MCs.

The terrain is pretty solid. But, it's nothing overall special imo. The wall is a souped up version of an Aegis line, Tomb Blades will still laugh at them, as will Assault units. The Gunrig is a nice S10 AP1 gun emplacement, and can really scare our stronger units, but isn't overpowered. The Droneport is terrain with Drones as far as I can tell, so... Drones never really bothered me so I dunno what to say about that.

Overall, the same tactics should work. I feel like the Stormsurge and Ghostkeel will show up a lot, as will the Tidewall and the Gunrig. But, if you're ready to deal with 6e Tau, you should be fine dealing with 7e Tau. IMO, the buffs that they got really made them strong at dealing with Invisible, Cover based Deathstars. Our Deathstars should be fine unless you were leaning really heavily on the Solar Staff to win you games.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
How likely is it that the formation is able to hit the rear armor? I don't know its rules and knowing such ahead of time will allow me to come up with better ways to deploy my Arks.

Formation auto hits rear armor regardless of facing

Yeah, the Stormsurge did scare me a little at first, but considering it's still T6, and only has a 3+ save, Destroyers will eat it alive relatively easily for it's point cost. And depending on the armor save of the Ghostkeel, Tomb Blades should have no issue dealing with them. Overall doesn't sound too bad.

Ghostkeel has 3+ I believe. Tomb Blades should be able to scoot in and shoot it mostly to death. I don't javelin Mathhammer on me though.

Deathmarks might be an excellent counter as well.

If I wanted to ally necrons with my orks what would i take for CAD? Immortals or warriors and what else sprinkled in. Looking more for ranged necron stuff and i know wraiths rock but orks have assault. What would be a nice small contingent of crons to ally with orks. Thanks

The Doom Scythe formation is there I guess.

GentGiant wrote:
If I wanted to ally necrons with my orks what would i take for CAD? Immortals or warriors and what else sprinkled in. Looking more for ranged necron stuff and i know wraiths rock but orks have assault. What would be a nice small contingent of crons to ally with orks. Thanks

What kind of ork list are you playing?

GentGiant wrote:
If I wanted to ally necrons with my orks what would i take for CAD? Immortals or warriors and what else sprinkled in. Looking more for ranged necron stuff and i know wraiths rock but orks have assault. What would be a nice small contingent of crons to ally with orks. Thanks

If you are looking for long range from necron allies and not in the form of their troops then take immortals for the troop tax since they are cheaper and let you put more points into the other slots.

Destroyers/H.destroyers are good for jump shoot jump of really solid firepower then I don't think orks have of high mobility decent toughness and great damage
Tomb blades for fast moving harassment units
DDark for silly big cannon with range of pretty much 'yes'
deathmarks are decent at anti-reserves like drop pods.
Triarch Stalkers I wouldn't recommend for range since they are more of (imo) support for other range necron units
Preatoriens can be good for another harassment unit with R.O.C s5 ap2 12" range 12" move.


And then there are the formations if you don't want to take the CAD.

There are plenty of options, depends what you where looking for.

Thanks for feedback necroners! I wont take up any more of your thread space just really interested in the crons.. Wanted to make them my second army but might ally them. Currently running mini warbiker deathstar / manz missile / mek guns KMK / tankbustas / lootas for core force. What would you recommend for complementing the high body count orks are able to bring. Maybe i should look at gauss immortals due to ranged vehicle killing

GentGiant wrote:
Maybe i should look at gauss immortals due to ranged vehicle killing

If you're trying to kill vehicles, you don't rely on gauss. That's a rookie mistake (just because it has the ability to do so does not mean it will do so reliably). Heavy Destroyers from a Cult are our premier anti-armor. Regular Heavies are still good if going CAD, but Destroyer Cult detachment joining an Orks force would add some serious firepower.

Also, how is it I only just realized:
Solar Thermasite gives +1 to attacks (shooting and melee)
Gauntlet of the Conflagrator is S7

ST + GotC = a lot of near inescapable instant death!
(followed up by even more instant death, as the guy holding them will probably be carrying a Warscythe as well)

I can't remember, can the Destroyer Lord take ST?
If so, the new D&D combo ("Death[mark] & Destroy[er Lord]") is looking a HELL of a lot more juicy.

 skoffs wrote:
Also, how is it I only just realized:
Solar Thermasite gives +1 to attacks (shooting and melee)
Gauntlet of the Conflagrator is S7

ST + GotC = a lot of near inescapable instant death!
(followed up by even more instant death, as the guy holding them will probably be carrying a Warscythe as well)

I can't remember, can the Destroyer Lord take ST?
If so, the new D&D combo ("Death[mark] & Destroy[er Lord]") is looking a HELL of a lot more juicy.

Solar Thermasite is from a different list, though?

Ffyllotek wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Also, how is it I only just realized:
Solar Thermasite gives +1 to attacks (shooting and melee)
Gauntlet of the Conflagrator is S7

ST + GotC = a lot of near inescapable instant death!
(followed up by even more instant death, as the guy holding them will probably be carrying a Warscythe as well)

I can't remember, can the Destroyer Lord take ST?
If so, the new D&D combo ("Death[mark] & Destroy[er Lord]") is looking a HELL of a lot more juicy.

Solar Thermasite is from a different list, though?

Yes, from the Shield of Baal: Exterminatus book.
So?
You just play a Mephrit Dynasty detachment and include all of those wargear pieces on it's HQ.

 skoffs wrote:
Also, how is it I only just realized:
Solar Thermasite gives +1 to attacks (shooting and melee)
Gauntlet of the Conflagrator is S7

ST + GotC = a lot of near inescapable instant death!
(followed up by even more instant death, as the guy holding them will probably be carrying a Warscythe as well)

I can't remember, can the Destroyer Lord take ST?
If so, the new D&D combo ("Death[mark] & Destroy[er Lord]") is looking a HELL of a lot more juicy.

Interesting catch. Overlord in a Night Scythe with both could drop onto a T4 unit and make things very uncomfortably dead. Pity that everything in

The DLord can't take it, no. Overlords and Crypteks only. So techincally, you could still do it with a Gauntlet/Thermasite Overlord or Cryptek in a unit that uses Veil/Obyron shenanigans with Deathmarks, but that's about it.

Shame that the Mephrit Dynasty Detachment is pretty bad compared to Decurion or CAD.

So there is an up coming apoc game at my local FLGS and the guy in charge of it ok'd the following

I can use the T- C'tan from the escalation book.
I can use it in the conclave of the burning one formation.
I can use the shackle on the T. C'tan to buff its S and T.

How should I equip this doom unit?

Oberron wrote:
So there is an up coming apoc game at my local FLGS and the guy in charge of it ok'd the following

I can use the T- C'tan from the escalation book.
I can use it in the conclave of the burning one formation.
I can use the shackle on the T. C'tan to buff its S and T.

How should I equip this doom unit?

probably a bad idea for a doom unit. The T C'tan can move 12", but the crypteks 6. Unless transliminal slide says "unit" instead of "model".
The T'ctan doesn't need the veil, as he is pretty mobile, the only real buff you could give him is the solar staff, in case of D / grav.

I reckon just use the T'c'tan with the D slide, and 2 D flamers. Murder city.

Guys how worth it do you think destroyers are? I mean, they seem good in a cult, but it seems rather pricey. You figure the minimum for the cult is 430pts before any upgrades or bulking up units.

I am trying to make an army that has more mass infantry types as well and I am liking a CAD at the moment which may be my issue. So far I have 54 necron warriors 14 scarabs and two unopened boxes of triarch praetorians, I plan to use 20 warriors as conversion fodder for flayed ones and I want two ghost arks. I am on the fence about destroyers however.

I love praetorians and honestly once you look at the profiles it seems like praetorians are better the destroyers since you get a solid fearless assault unit as well as ap2. Am I weird for liking these guys as much as I do? They seem strangely unpopular.

I guess I need to hear your thoughts as too whether destroyers will be worth it in an infantry heavy list.

I just wish it were only two units minimum of Destroyers in the formation. It's an extra 120 I don't really want to spend all the time.
They're still ridiculous though. The regular Destroyers are quite capable of glancing things to death, and then Heavy Destroyers are just amazing.

So yeah I just wish there was less of a minimum requirement, or that we could bring two units of Heavy Destroyers.

I like Praetorians; I just simply can't fit them in.

Yea I just don't see how my list will need a few gaus canon or las canon eqivalent shots for their price. I mean, at 40 points a pop for two s5 ap 3 24" shots just doesnt impress me. I know they are crazy durable, but for example a rhino would be a major task for these guys to blow away.

I like the praetorians because they are faster, cheaper, fearless and also murder things in CC all with ap2. I totally missed the range bump on rod of the covenant until recently, 12" range with a 12" move makes them actually solid for hurting things from range, i also like their formation more since I want a stalker anyway to bump all my warriors/arks BS.

I do think I'll get some heavy destroyers at some point though since the crons seriously lack high strength shooting.

harkequin wrote:

Oberron wrote:
So there is an up coming apoc game at my local FLGS and the guy in charge of it ok'd the following

I can use the T- C'tan from the escalation book.
I can use it in the conclave of the burning one formation.
I can use the shackle on the T. C'tan to buff its S and T.

How should I equip this doom unit?

probably a bad idea for a doom unit. The T C'tan can move 12", but the crypteks 6. Unless transliminal slide says "unit" instead of "model".
The T'ctan doesn't need the veil, as he is pretty mobile, the only real buff you could give him is the solar staff, in case of D / grav.

I reckon just use the T'c'tan with the D slide, and 2 D flamers. Murder city.

good point. Forgot about the movement problem. and the slide just says the C'tan. But the shackle would be good on him still now just need to think of a way to protect the cryptek

Camp the Crypteks behind a Bastion in the corner?

Generally Destroyers just tend to do a better job at killing things AND staying alive.

 skoffs wrote:
Generally Destroyers just tend to do a better job at killing things AND staying alive.

Can you elaborate? Because I don't see it, I mean to say, they seem valuable but I don't see how they are better then several other options. 120 points for 6 24" s5 shots doesn't seem that awesome honestly. I mean, at that point I would rather have a ghost ark or night scythe, hell I'd rather have 5-6 tomb blades. I guess I am looking at their section, fast attack, and then cost and comparing it to their competition and I would rather have most of their rivals. Praetorians, wraiths, scarabs, tomb blades and the vehicles all seem more focused while being efficient.

They're S5 AP3 shots that reroll to wound and glance in any situation on a JSJ platform.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're S5 AP3 shots that reroll to wound and glance in any situation on a JSJ platform.

Grated this is only in a formation, but yeah.

Their strengths come from being T5 with 2 wounds, new RP, relatively mobile, and the fact that their guns are AP3, which is a very nice touch. Also, Preferred Enemy.

The formation is just icing on the cake. Ignoring Terrain always, and rerolling essentially everything make them very lethal.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're S5 AP3 shots that reroll to wound and glance in any situation on a JSJ platform.

Only in the formation though, which I think is way too expensive. And JSJ is overated when your gun is only 24" range. If you are at the edge of your range band it limits the number of models you can actually kill, and if you jump too far back, you could take them out of the shooting phase next turn, so a smart opponent will easily draw them out. Crisis suits, with missile pods in particular, are so effective because they have much better range.

IDK I play with CWE Dark Reapers all the time, and so I know how effective s5 ap3 2 shot guns are, and while it can be great, it is not amazing. What makes reapers amazing are the added s8 missiles and ignoring jink for example. S5 ap3 is useless when we are talking armor penetration really, so they don't really matter in that regard considering I can get more then enough gauss elsewhere. And if I want marines dead I think the other fast attack options like praetorians and wraiths are better.

I was excited about the destroyers until I saw their price tag. 40ppm is pretty nuts actually when you consider they blow at assault and have pathetic range. A full unit of 6 is 240! and that is only 12 shots, hardly a guarantee at glancing out a rhino and way to point inefficient for killing a combat squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're S5 AP3 shots that reroll to wound and glance in any situation on a JSJ platform.

Grated this is only in a formation, but yeah.

Their strengths come from being T5 with 2 wounds, new RP, relatively mobile, and the fact that their guns are AP3, which is a very nice touch. Also, Preferred Enemy.

The formation is just icing on the cake. Ignoring Terrain always, and rerolling essentially everything make them very lethal.

Yea I agree they are solid, I guess they just seem way to pricy for the roll they fullfill. For example, I don't like units that are hard countered by something like combat when they cost SO fricken much. Survivability only goes so far with me, the rest of the army does it, they need to help me win games. A 5 man unit is 200 points and can be tarpitted or countered by MSU very easily. I think for me I will stick with praetorians, I mean, s5 ap2 in shooting and assault on a fearless platform that won't be bogged down by 5 scrubs for cheaper just seems more appealing. Also the monopose dated destroyers isn't helping, I'll be honest, I don't mind and actually live kitbashing but Christ these guys are expensive to purchase for how bad that kit is.