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 Red Corsair wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're S5 AP3 shots that reroll to wound and glance in any situation on a JSJ platform.

Only in the formation though, which I think is way too expensive. And JSJ is overated when your gun is only 24" range. If you are at the edge of your range band it limits the number of models you can actually kill, and if you jump too far back, you could take them out of the shooting phase next turn, so a smart opponent will easily draw them out. Crisis suits, with missile pods in particular, are so effective because they have much better range.

IDK I play with CWE Dark Reapers all the time, and so I know how effective s5 ap3 2 shot guns are, and while it can be great, it is not amazing. What makes reapers amazing are the added s8 missiles and ignoring jink for example. S5 ap3 is useless when we are talking armor penetration really, so they don't really matter in that regard considering I can get more then enough gauss elsewhere. And if I want marines dead I think the other fast attack options like praetorians and wraiths are better.

I was excited about the destroyers until I saw their price tag. 40ppm is pretty nuts actually when you consider they blow at assault and have pathetic range. A full unit of 6 is 240! and that is only 12 shots, hardly a guarantee at glancing out a rhino and way to point inefficient for killing a combat squad.

Praetorians are Elites. And Wraiths are tarpit units. I never send them after something with the intent to kill it.

And as far as killing Tac Squads, you really shouldn't be worried about killing them. But then you have Wraithguard, the Stormsurge, Wraithknight, Tyranid MCs, and anything else with a 3+ save that you want dead. Then, on top of it, lets say they don't have a good target that turn. They have the ability to still chip wounds off of vehicles.


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 Red Corsair wrote:

Yea I agree they are solid, I guess they just seem way to pricy for the roll they fullfill. For example, I don't like units that are hard countered by something like combat when they cost SO fricken much. Survivability only goes so far with me, the rest of the army does it, they need to help me win games. A 5 man unit is 200 points and can be tarpitted or countered by MSU very easily. I think for me I will stick with praetorians, I mean, s5 ap2 in shooting and assault on a fearless platform that won't be bogged down by 5 scrubs for cheaper just seems more appealing. Also the monopose dated destroyers isn't helping, I'll be honest, I don't mind and actually live kitbashing but Christ these guys are expensive to purchase for how bad that kit is.

I'm not going to disagree that Wraiths are good and Praetorians are awesome. But I've run a Canoptek Harvest/D-cult list numerous times, even against Eldar, and have been undefeated. Being able to point Destroyers at any unit of Eldar Aspect warriors and almost guarantee to remove them is worth it to me.

Bah your right, I was looking at the triarch formation anyway so I misplaced there spot in a CAD.

I just don't see them being great for killing wraithknights or ghostkeels, maybe the storm surge though, but I think I can get him pretty easily with other things. Now the heavy destroyers are more appealing to me since they are one of the only places to get lascanons and they have the added range, but the cult just seems so boring because it eats up so much of an army.

It's probably just me, but I started Necrons because they are one of the few armies where you can take a highlander list outside of repeating a few warriors units and still have a very competitive army. The Canoptek harvest is nice because its three different units, but the cult again just seems boring to ne and not as good as some people are telling me.

Am I wrong to want to use praetorians? They just seem SO underused and I don't understand why I guess, in some regard I even like them more then the lichguard bombs I often see because they essentially are the same unit but mobile and fearless. have you used the Praetorians much?

 Red Corsair wrote:
Bah your right, I was looking at the triarch formation anyway so I misplaced there spot in a CAD.

I just don't see them being great for killing wraithknights or ghostkeels, maybe the storm surge though, but I think I can get him pretty easily with other things. Now the heavy destroyers are more appealing to me since they are one of the only places to get lascanons and they have the added range, but the cult just seems so boring because it eats up so much of an army.

It's probably just me, but I started Necrons because they are one of the few armies where you can take a highlander list outside of repeating a few warriors units and still have a very competitive army. The Canoptek harvest is nice because its three different units, but the cult again just seems boring to ne and not as good as some people are telling me.

Am I wrong to want to use praetorians? They just seem SO underused and I don't understand why I guess, in some regard I even like them more then the lichguard bombs I often see because they essentially are the same unit but mobile and fearless. have you used the Praetorians much?

I have used Praetorians a ton. In fact, I want to get 10 more as well as 2 more Stalkers and run a full Battalion. They're hella fun, and Voidblade Praetorians are so much more efficient at killing than Wraiths. And the Rods are invaluable because of the lack of AP2 elsewhere.

If you prefer to use them, than that's fine. I'm not saying it's a bad choice. I was simply trying to get my point across about why I enjoy Destroyers and have had a ton of success with them. But I'm also the person to play everything in the codex and have fun (Yeah, even an Annihilation Nexus or Living Tomb).

Yea this is going to be my 5th army and I really am excited to use as many different units as I can, so I plan on running heavy destroyers and a D-lord so its hard for me to find reason to take normal destroyers since they are so expensive in a list.

Super glad to hear I am not crazy with praetorians, by the way I never would have thought voidblades would be worth it over rods? What tales can you brag about haha?

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea this is going to be my 5th army and I really am excited to use as many different units as I can, so I plan on running heavy destroyers and a D-lord so its hard for me to find reason to take normal destroyers since they are so expensive in a list.

Super glad to hear I am not crazy with praetorians, by the way I never would have thought voidblades would be worth it over rods? What tales can you brag about haha?

Over Rods? Really depends on who you're righting. Anything with a 4+ save will be toast. 1 more attack per dude, and they still have rending. Plus, the S6 pistols are nice, and they've taken out chariots where the S5 rods would be unable to. They're just all around more versatile, in my opinion. But I run a squad of both in the Battalion.

Well Void Blades mean you have pistols that ID T3, have more attacks vs the 4+ to 6+ you might face, and then give more utility against vehicles.

Also there a no arguments about shooting Rods and then using them in melee...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd use one of each in a Battalion as well.

I totally over looked the extra attack in assaults, that is saucy. Do you think these guys are better then lychguard? I kind of am in love with the fact that they don't need any character support as well. I suppose lychguard don't either but they certainly are improved by fielding a character with them. Also, do you guys prefer hyperphase sword/dispersion shield lych guard or warscythe. I am leaning toward warscythes since they can kill things we have issues with, but the insane durability of the sword and board is so tempting (can they be magnetized?).

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:


Also there a no arguments about shooting Rods and then using them in melee...

What do you mean?

 Red Corsair wrote:
I totally over looked the extra attack in assaults, that is saucy. Do you think these guys are better then lychguard? I kind of am in love with the fact that they don't need any character support as well. I suppose lychguard don't either but they certainly are improved by fielding a character with them. Also, do you guys prefer hyperphase sword/dispersion shield lych guard or warscythe. I am leaning toward warscythes since they can kill things we have issues with, but the insane durability of the sword and board is so tempting (can they be magnetized?).

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:


Also there a no arguments about shooting Rods and then using them in melee...

What do you mean?

I prefer to always have my Overlord with his Lychguard posse, and I always use Sword and Board guard. The durability is just ridiculous. However, dropping Scythe guard with a Cryptek that has the Solar Staff and Chronometron out of a Night Scythe is hella fun.


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 Red Corsair wrote:

What do you mean?

He means the argument that you can't shoot with the rods and then use them in CC in the same turn, based on a wonky ruling.

Really? What ruling is that? It doesn't seem to make any sense that they couldn't shoot and assault with the rods?

Yea I considered veiling and solar staffing 10 lychguard with scythes.

What is the consensus on CCB's? They seem like they may be totally crap now that you can krack grenade them relatively easily. I loaned out my rulebook so I can't look it up, but do enemies always roll to hit against the overlords WS? Or is it really that easy to nuke him with his ride?

 Red Corsair wrote:
Really? What ruling is that? It doesn't seem to make any sense that they couldn't shoot and assault with the rods?

Yea I considered veiling and solar staffing 10 lychguard with scythes.

What is the consensus on CCB's? They seem like they may be totally crap now that you can krack grenade them relatively easily. I loaned out my rulebook so I can't look it up, but do enemies always roll to hit against the overlords WS? Or is it really that easy to nuke him with his ride?

The ruling is a single line in the BRB saying that some weapons have multiple profiles to represet different types of ammo and such. Where this is the case, simply choose a profile to use for that turn. And that stems an argument that a ton of weapons can't be shot and used in the following CC phase.

CCBs aren't bad. In CC, the enemy strikes against Front Armor, so 13, and rolls against the Overlords WS. It's definitely not as good as it was, but it's still a chariot, and so is still good.

I found the YMDC thread lol That is the craziest arguement I think I have seen in a while, probably why I stopped going there. Pretty sure nobody where I live would argue they can't fire and assault.

OK yea so that makes the CCB pretty awesome actually. I think I would run at least 1 in some of my lists, though I probably will opt for a destroyer lord over him more often.

 krodarklorr wrote:

CCBs aren't bad. In CC, the enemy strikes against Front Armor, so 13, and rolls against the Overlords WS. It's definitely not as good as it was, but it's still a chariot, and so is still good.

They can choose to attack the overlord instead.

 vipoid wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

CCBs aren't bad. In CC, the enemy strikes against Front Armor, so 13, and rolls against the Overlords WS. It's definitely not as good as it was, but it's still a chariot, and so is still good.

They can choose to attack the overlord instead.

I think he knows that but was clarifying for me that if they attack the barge they strike the front facing which is important.

I think I would rather have a destroyer lord most of the time however. Then again I am rusty as hell on the chariot rules in 7th. Can they be locked in combat or can they leave like in 6th?

Sorry, just wanted to clarify that.

Chariots can indeed be locked in combat now.

So I am thinking about starting a necron force. I want to make a close combat focused army. I know wraiths, spiders and scarabs are excellent and I want them to be the back bone of my army. I think flayed ones seem good too, thanks to infiltrate. But what about lynch guard? They seem too slow to work well, but if they do get into combate they can mess things up. The catacomb command barge seems good too but if it is the only armor in my list, maybe it is too vulnerable? How about the stalker? That also seems like a lot of fun. If I had stalkers and command barges would that be enough armor?

Also would a C'tan shard be good? Or is it too slow?
What is our best way of getting rid of wraithknights and knights?

If you plan to have a foot Lord, Lychguard basically make the perfect bodyguard.

 lambsandlions wrote:
So I am thinking about starting a necron force. I want to make a close combat focused army. I know wraiths, spiders and scarabs are excellent and I want them to be the back bone of my army. I think flayed ones seem good too, thanks to infiltrate. But what about lynch guard? They seem too slow to work well, but if they do get into combate they can mess things up. The catacomb command barge seems good too but if it is the only armor in my list, maybe it is too vulnerable? How about the stalker? That also seems like a lot of fun. If I had stalkers and command barges would that be enough armor?

Also would a C'tan shard be good? Or is it too slow?
What is our best way of getting rid of wraithknights and knights?

barges seem decent but honestly its probably better most of the time to take a destroyer lord instead. Flayed ones are amazing now actually, with 4 attacks and 5 on the charge with ap5 and shred, a unit of 10 will dice most things they charge or get assaulted by. I actually plan on running 20 and joining zandrek to them. Lych guard I am still on the fence about, I think I would rather have praetorians most of the time, but it's hard to argue with a unit full of war scythes, they would really help deal with things like wraith knights and imperial knights, just bog them down with some wraiths first and counter charge. I like the sword and board ones as well, but I feel like wraiths do the same job as them only faster and on a fearless platform and they are the most efficient way to get war scythes into a cron army. You figure a necron lord is 50 points and needs to purchase a war scythe bumping him to 70 and has 2 WS4 attacks while two lych guard are 50 points including the scythes and have 4 WS4 attacks and the same number of wounds. Same goes for an overlord only its 8 attacks to 3, though with less WS. Wrather then adding war scythes to sword and shield lych guard I think it is better to add a 2+ save character like zandrek or a destroyer lord with nightmare shroud/phase shifter and use that character to tank shots.

The only issue most 'Cron players have with Praets is their comparative vulnerability.
Yes, both weapon load outs can purée most things they come in contact with, but with only a 3+ and new RP to keep them alive, they don't fare as well as the ever popular 3++ CC units we can field (especially when combined with ICs that that boost the unit's potential, something not so easily done with Praets).

 skoffs wrote:
The only issue most 'Cron players have with Praets is their comparative vulnerability.
Yes, both weapon load outs can purée most things they come in contact with, but with only a 3+ and new RP to keep them alive, they don't fare as well as the ever popular 3++ CC units we can field (especially when combined with ICs that that boost the unit's potential, something not so easily done with Praets).

To be honest, I find Praetorians have sufficient durability now. Certainly in a Decurion.

Personally I prefer mobility and ranged weapons (especially with their formation) to being melee only and stuck moving 6".

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
If you plan to have a foot Lord, Lychguard basically make the perfect bodyguard.

Great minds think alike, I see.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 skoffs wrote:
The only issue most 'Cron players have with Praets is their comparative vulnerability.
Yes, both weapon load outs can purée most things they come in contact with, but with only a 3+ and new RP to keep them alive, they don't fare as well as the ever popular 3++ CC units we can field (especially when combined with ICs that that boost the unit's potential, something not so easily done with Praets).

I disagree. In a Decurion, that's a 3+ armor, 4+++ RP, and MTC so you can jump into ruins with no penalty for a 4++ cover. Then take into account Fearless which is nice, and the shooting attacks which I personally love, they definitely bring their own flavor to the table.

But, I'm also of the mindset that Flayed Ones, Lychguard, Praetorians, and Wraiths are all very good CC units, just in different ways.

Of the three big CC models Necrons have, discounting Flayed Ones for a minute:

Lychguard can be kitted for either the best offence or the best defence, but lack mobility,

Wraiths do defence and mobility, and are pretty good for offence but it's their weakest trait of the three.

Praetorians take nearly as much offence as scytheguard and nearly as much mobility as wraiths, but lack the durability of either shieldguard or wraiths, and even Scytheguard have an easier time taking a character to buff their survivability.

All are good, but have differing ratios of durability, mobility and offence.

That's actually one of the things I really like about this Necron book - our melee units actually have distinct roles and traits, without one really invalidating the others.

So many armies I see have one good melee unit that makes the others redundant - since they fulfil identical roles, but one is just far better.

And then there's our other CC units:

Flayed Ones have tons of attacks that can mulch through pretty much any infantry but can't really hurt vehicles or high toughness MCs/GCs. Plus they're our only infiltrators.

Scarabs have tons of attacks that are able to hurt vehicles and high toughness targets, but aren't as good at dealing with regular infantry, oddly enough. Plus they're fast and fearless.

Then there's Spyders, but they're more of a support role.

Yea I feel since the update that praetorians are btter suited for my play style then lychguard since I prefer units to fulfill more then one role and do it without character support if need be. Plus their formation is pure win IMO, the stalker adds so much to your backfield.

When i take the Justicar formation of the 2x preatorians and unit of stalkers I like to take one of each style of unit so I have a swiss army knife of use.

The s5 ap2 ROC preatorians are great vs TEQ and MEQ and the pistol and sword combo is great for weight of attacks with chance of auto-wound at ap2, pretty solid vs mini-hords and t7+ MC and vehicles.

Oberron wrote:
When i take the Justicar formation of the 2x preatorians and unit of stalkers I like to take one of each style of unit so I have a swiss army knife of use.

The s5 ap2 ROC preatorians are great vs TEQ and MEQ and the pistol and sword combo is great for weight of attacks with chance of auto-wound at ap2, pretty solid vs mini-hords and t7+ MC and vehicles.

Quoted for truth. I enjoy running both when I run this formation.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea I feel since the update that praetorians are btter suited for my play style then lychguard since I prefer units to fulfill more then one role and do it without character support if need be. Plus their formation is pure win IMO, the stalker adds so much to your backfield.

If you are going to be running a backfield-style Necron army with stalkers, you might look into a Void Shield Generator as a means to keep them around for a few extra turns.

So it's possible to run a double CAD army of 30 Wraiths with just min units of Immortals and 2 DLords backing them up. I have trouble deciding whether or not this list actually works. On the one hand, it shouldn't, because it's freaking stupid and only has 20 guns. On the other hand, Wraiths are... kinda good.

More reasonably, I'm starting to consider the 24 Wraith list with a large amount of ObSec troops. After playing with Destroyers for so long, it feels odd not having any hard-hitting guns, but I think with the amount of GCs, SHVs, and Deathstars in the game right now, having lots of fast-moving, Fearless Assault dudes is very key to controlling the board.

At least, until GW decides to give us a big GC C'tan. Then I'll just be taking that and cackling maniacally the whole time.

Requizen wrote:

At least, until GW decides to give us a big GC C'tan. Then I'll just be taking that and cackling maniacally the whole time.

At this point, I seriously doubt that happening.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Requizen wrote:

At least, until GW decides to give us a big GC C'tan. Then I'll just be taking that and cackling maniacally the whole time.

At this point, I seriously doubt that happening.

Have faith!
Harbingers Of The Silent King
A Codex: Necrons Supplement
will come to save us all!
(with its balanced GC C'tan, and its five 6th ed. super Crypteks, and its ObSec Praetorians, and its new Lord Of War HQ who is actually formidable in combat, and, and, and...)