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Quick question, if I have a squad of 5 Lychguard in a Nightscythe, I can assign an Overlord with them and he starts off in the Nightscythe, correct?

 Darth_Mox wrote:
Quick question, if I have a squad of 5 Lychguard in a Nightscythe, I can assign an Overlord with them and he starts off in the Nightscythe, correct?

Correct. The way Dedicated Transports work is that the unit that purchased it is the only unit that can start inside. ICs can join that unit and start in there with them. However, the Overlord cannot start in it by himself and the Lychguard on foot.

If you have the Fast Attack slot, you could always just bring the Night Scythe there and not have to worry about it, and open it up to other units as well!

Requizen wrote:

 Darth_Mox wrote:
Quick question, if I have a squad of 5 Lychguard in a Nightscythe, I can assign an Overlord with them and he starts off in the Nightscythe, correct?

Correct. The way Dedicated Transports work is that the unit that purchased it is the only unit that can start inside. ICs can join that unit and start in there with them. However, the Overlord cannot start in it by himself and the Lychguard on foot.

If you have the Fast Attack slot, you could always just bring the Night Scythe there and not have to worry about it, and open it up to other units as well!

Thanks!

So, I'm kinda wondering how to deal with jetbikes with the new codex. I just played a game, and I'll admit, the list wasn't that great. I wasn't running decurion by request (he considers the decurion a little too powerful, and as he mostly runs mechanicus/skitarii, DE and harlequins I agree). Today he brought an eldar host of some sort (I'm not as familiar with the formations they have.) He had 3 wave serpents, with regular guardians, 2 war walkers, the D strength artillery he gets, and this unholy seer council on jetbikes. So, he was rocking about 14 warp charges, and harnessing on a 3+/minus one warp charge. So practically every unit I fought had rerollable saves/shots. Also he rolled the storm, so I had an ap 3 apocalyptic blast dropping on my guys. Now, I messed up on the list, and it wasn't that good, but what sort of things do we have to help with those jink saves, as I barely scratched the list before he decimated me.

My list:

mephrit dynasty cohort (3 troops, reroll 1s on RP for troops)

20 warriors

10 immortals

10 immortals

Szarkas the illuminator (may be misspelled, meant to be sort of a phalanx-style with the bonus to RP)



Destroyer cult

D-lord with warcscythe and gauntlet of the conflagrator (with illuminator in warrior blob for PE)

3 destroyers
3 destroyers
3 destroyers
3 heavy destroyers.


I barely killed half a unit, he deployed second, and most of my footsloggers were too far out of position, his mobility killed me, to be honest, but half my army could shoot that seer squad, and no wounds at all. I was rolling bad saves, but it still felt like I just got ripped apart. It doesn't help my heavy destroyers didn't quite take down the artillery, then got gibbed by D str next turn

I know the list wasn't great, and my generalship was poor (perhaps my guy was still fighting an old war or something... I knew I shouldn't have made a D-lord my warlord!) but really, I just don't know how to bust rerollable jink saves like that.

So, wait,
He requested you not play Decurion because he considers it cheese... and then rocks up with the biggest cheese in the game?
Okay, yeah, that's bullgak.

But you bust jink saves with Tomb Blades (ignore cover = no jink).

Kill his smaller/weaker target first. Don't shoot the Seer Council if it has 'Fortune' up (the power that rerolls saves). You'll just waste your shots.

Instead, tarpit the council. Take wraiths and give them whip coils. I actually wiped a council with Wraiths because the wraiths won combat, he failed his morale (council isn't fearless) and then i swept him with initiative 5. That was a lucky case but even if they didn't wipe the council, the wraiths would have occupied the council for a few turns allowing the rest of your army to destroy his weaker units.

Flamer on bargeLords also ignore cover. Whenever I run a bargeLord he always has a flamer + scythe for the ideal combo.

 skoffs wrote:
So, wait,
He requested you not play Decurion because he considers it cheese... and then rocks up with the biggest cheese in the game?
Okay, yeah, that's bullgak.

Haha yeah, what the butts? 4+ RP is too overpowering, but a Psychic Deathstar backed up with D Barrage weaponry is just fine?

@Evilbookworm, I think your friend is a bit of a punk. Nobody playing Eldar with D and/or that many psychic support should tell you what is or isn't cheese.

So if you could combine a CAD from the old 5th edition codex with a Decurion detachment/formation or CAD using the 7th edition codex, what would make the cut in an 1850 list? I am curious to see how people rank things between old and new. Battlescribe can be used to easily set this up.

The only things that really got worse was Scarabs and Barges.

Also Trazyn (if you can believe that) and the Stormlord.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The only things that really got worse was Scarabs and Barges.

The new scarabs are overall weaker but they are now more versatile. They can threaten GMCs now and throwing huge blob of scarabs at big meanies of any type is the cornerstone of Scarab Farm.

The old bargeLord was definitely a LOT better. He had a 2+, 3++ on both profiles and could re-animate 4+++ from the dead and thereby get a pseudo Hit and Run effect. AND, he had MSS which gave him game against GMCs. If you run the old bargeLord in a Mephrit Dynasty Cohort he can further benefit from Solar Thermasite (for re-rolls of 1 on saves and ID toughness 4 with scythe) and Edge of Eternity (for power fist character sniping)

The old NS + min warrior troops are a cheap and effective combo. The old NS could jink and still have Tesla multi-shot on 6s. In fact, the cheapness of the old NS made Necron air viable. I don't think Necron air is viable anymore.

And probably the single biggest heavy-hitter in the old dex were the Stormteks. Nothing could put the hurt on an IK like the Stormtek could.

The loss of MSS and the old bargeLord and the Stormtek means the new Necrons struggle against SH and GMC.


However, the old niche filled by Annihilation Barges seems to be filled now by the D Cult and/or Tomb Blades.

Has anyone had any experience/success with adding in an allied CSM force for Psychic power?

Sorcerer on Bike with upgrades, 5 Nurgle Spawn, and Cultists is around the price of a Canoptek Harvest, and brings similar bonuses. The Spawn/Sorc ball is a Fearless, tough unit (especially when buffed up with Endurance or Invis) and pretty good at killing things, much like a Wraith unit. It also brings 3 Psychic Dice to help in the only phase of the game that we're weak in.

Be'lakor + Cultists does something similar at the same price. Though, he's less of a deathstar - but he has Invis without having to roll for it and can fly around Shrieking things. The major issue with bringing Be'lakor by himself (in my book) is that the only Invis targets are himself and the Cultists, so if he's in the air and doesn't need Invis, you're basically just bringing him to Swoop around and Shriek things (maybe Terrify against certain armies).

I think there's a list to be made here. Cultists are fine objective campers - no one wants to waste bullets on a unit of Cultists going to ground in Ruins. Be'lakor can wreak havoc on lots of armies unless they focus a lot of fire into him. And, of course, if they do, that's less into your Destroyers or Wraiths. The Sorc/Spawn unit, if taken instead, can run around alongside Wraith units and use his Force weapon to threaten things like Wraithknights or Stormsurges, while T6 Spawn just eat bullets.

It was fun to ally in a Black Mace Prince and a Heldrake and some Obliterators.

Now all of those are just meh. Entirely not worth it, and I'd recommend allying with someone else. They're not going us something we really need.

Got a few questions:

What's the best way to play necrons? (eg, in numbers, combat squads, etc)
How often do they win overall?
Are they overpowered, underpowered, or balanced?
Would you recommend playing necrons?

May have more later.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It was fun to ally in a Black Mace Prince and a Heldrake and some Obliterators.

Now all of those are just meh. Entirely not worth it, and I'd recommend allying with someone else. They're not going us something we really need.

Well, the idea is to find a way to bring get Psykers into Necrons. From AoC (as to not trigger OEO, which I hate), that's CSM or Renegades. And while Renegades are good, their Psykers are pretty poor. At least the ones in CSM are pretty good on their own rights.

Why would we need Psyker though? If we want to counter Psyker armies, we could ally in a Culexus or two.

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
Got a few questions:

What's the best way to play necrons? (eg, in numbers, combat squads, etc)
How often do they win overall?
Are they overpowered, underpowered, or balanced?
Would you recommend playing necrons?

May have more later.

From what I've seen, and personally experienced, Necrons can pull off whatever style you want. If you wanna run 20 man blobs of warriors with Ghost ark backup, that's scurry. If you wanna run a more elite list with Orikanstar, Wraiths and squads of Praetorians and Deathmarks, go for it.

I personally win most of the games I play. I've played upwards of almost 30 games with the new codex and only lost 3 (one of which was because of a friend getting a rule in his army wrong). And otherwise, they tend to do well. It also depends on your meta and what you play as. If you play competitive lists in a competitive meta, you'll probably win a good portion of the time. If you play Casual in a casual meta, you'll win most of the time.

They were considered Overpowered, but with the release of the newer 7.5 Ed. codexes, they're more balanced against those armies.

I would recommend playing them, as they're my favorite army. But, they're not for everyone. Panting is really easy, but can be boring for some people. They're units don't require much thought input, which makes them easy to play, but can be boring to some people. It's all based on preference.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:
Also Trazyn (if you can believe that) and the Stormlord.

Stormlord? He got better.

And arguably, Trazyn was never that good in the first place, so technically he did get better. He's just still considered bad.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
Got a few questions:

What's the best way to play necrons? (eg, in numbers, combat squads, etc)
How often do they win overall?
Are they overpowered, underpowered, or balanced?
Would you recommend playing necrons?

May have more later.

From what I've seen, and personally experienced, Necrons can pull off whatever style you want. If you wanna run 20 man blobs of warriors with Ghost ark backup, that's scurry. If you wanna run a more elite list with Orikanstar, Wraiths and squads of Praetorians and Deathmarks, go for it.

I personally win most of the games I play. I've played upwards of almost 30 games with the new codex and only lost 3 (one of which was because of a friend getting a rule in his army wrong). And otherwise, they tend to do well. It also depends on your meta and what you play as. If you play competitive lists in a competitive meta, you'll probably win a good portion of the time. If you play Casual in a casual meta, you'll win most of the time.

They were considered Overpowered, but with the release of the newer 7.5 Ed. codexes, they're more balanced against those armies.

I would recommend playing them, as they're my favorite army. But, they're not for everyone. Panting is really easy, but can be boring for some people. They're units don't require much thought input, which makes them easy to play, but can be boring to some people. It's all based on preference.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:
Also Trazyn (if you can believe that) and the Stormlord.

Stormlord? He got better.

And arguably, Trazyn was never that good in the first place, so technically he did get better. He's just still considered bad.

Stormlord is kinda the same in ranking that he was. He got cheaper, but I'd rather have the old abilities back, and for him to actually have some sorta melee weapon.

For Trazyn, he'd need to be able to still replace Lychguard. If he could do that, I would actually consider making lists with him.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Stormlord? He got better.

His storm ability got vastly worse, he lost what little melee he had, he can no longer Seize on a 4+, and, worst of all, he's a sodding lord of War - so you can't take him as a regular HQ.

 krodarklorr wrote:

And arguably, Trazyn was never that good in the first place, so technically he did get better. He's just still considered bad.

Trazyn wasn't good, but at least he had some functions:
- Could replace cheap Lychguard, Lords and Crypteks to stay alive
- Had MSS
- Was scoring in an edition when only troops were.

The new Trazyn brings nothing whatsoever. All he can do is kill characters who are vastly more useful than he is. He has no useful function or any reason to even exist.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why would we need Psyker though? If we want to counter Psyker armies, we could ally in a Culexus or two.

I don't have as much faith in the Culexus as most people. Not only his he CTA, but then you have to bring an entire second CTA detachment to give him a Drop Pod, and all people have to do is walk out of his bubble because he only has a 6" move. He doesn't really bring much to an army that can't take advantage and obliterate a target in one turn.

Besides, do you want to go ahead and create a bunch of One Eye Open bubble where our extremely mobile Wraiths can't go for fear of becoming useless for a whole turn? I know I don't Allies of Convenience are much easier to work with. Not to mention those Warp Charge dice that you get from a Sorcerer or Daemon Prince are usable to deny any Psyker on the table, not just the ones within 12".

Requizen wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why would we need Psyker though? If we want to counter Psyker armies, we could ally in a Culexus or two.

I don't have as much faith in the Culexus as most people. Not only his he CTA, but then you have to bring an entire second CTA detachment to give him a Drop Pod, and all people have to do is walk out of his bubble because he only has a 6" move. He doesn't really bring much to an army that can't take advantage and obliterate a target in one turn.

Besides, do you want to go ahead and create a bunch of One Eye Open bubble where our extremely mobile Wraiths can't go for fear of becoming useless for a whole turn? I know I don't Allies of Convenience are much easier to work with. Not to mention those Warp Charge dice that you get from a Sorcerer or Daemon Prince are usable to deny any Psyker on the table, not just the ones within 12".

CTA is such an overrated problem. I've used Tyranids as an allied force with good success.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Requizen wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why would we need Psyker though? If we want to counter Psyker armies, we could ally in a Culexus or two.

I don't have as much faith in the Culexus as most people. Not only his he CTA, but then you have to bring an entire second CTA detachment to give him a Drop Pod, and all people have to do is walk out of his bubble because he only has a 6" move. He doesn't really bring much to an army that can't take advantage and obliterate a target in one turn.

Besides, do you want to go ahead and create a bunch of One Eye Open bubble where our extremely mobile Wraiths can't go for fear of becoming useless for a whole turn? I know I don't Allies of Convenience are much easier to work with. Not to mention those Warp Charge dice that you get from a Sorcerer or Daemon Prince are usable to deny any Psyker on the table, not just the ones within 12".

CTA is such an overrated problem. I've used Tyranids as an allied force with good success.

Depends on the forces in each detachment. If your Necrons are assaulting and your Flyrants are swooping around, you're unlikely to ever get in that bubble. If your Necrons are shooting and your Tyranids are Assault horde, ditto. It's just when they overlap that it's an issue, like with Drop Pods and Wraiths, which are going to have to go to want to go to the same target.

And yeah, it's only on a 1. But that 1 invalidates a unit for the whole turn. It's not like Dangerous Terrain, where a 1 makes a single model take a save which means it'll likely be fine - it means your Wraith unit loses 12" + of movement for the game, and the Culexus can't chase his target, allowing them to get Psychic Powers the next turn. That's a huuuuge deficit.

Besides, I still don't think the Culexus is even that effective. You get 1 turn out of him. Pretty much everything that he wants to target in today's meta is either on a Bike/Jetbike or a FMC aside from Centstar, and all they have to do is move out of his bubble with their 12" move.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
EBWOP: Also, CTA isn't even allowed in some formats, so I like to avoid it on principle.

 skoffs wrote:
So, wait,
He requested you not play Decurion because he considers it cheese... and then rocks up with the biggest cheese in the game?
Okay, yeah, that's bullgak.

But you bust jink saves with Tomb Blades (ignore cover = no jink).

This, this, this.

Next time, tell him to cram it and laugh maniacally as you give him a taste of his own medicine.

 Darth_Mox wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
So, wait,
He requested you not play Decurion because he considers it cheese... and then rocks up with the biggest cheese in the game?
Okay, yeah, that's bullgak.

But you bust jink saves with Tomb Blades (ignore cover = no jink).

This, this, this.

Next time, tell him to cram it and laugh maniacally as you give him a taste of his own medicine.

Well, it'd probably be more of a close game (those two armies/builds kind of balance each other out... well, that was supposed to be the idea, anyway. Super killy vs undying. But then, oooooh no, GW has to go and up eldar's cheese level to lactose intolerant degrees)

So I've heard. It almost makes me not want to go to an ITC event after reading some of these stupid cheese lists.

So I will first disclaim that I am starting out with my crons and I don't have tons of guys ready yet, but I recently played a 1500 point game against marines with two units of 2 dreads and I will admit that they were a major problem. Chewing through 6 hull points isn't easy and now with 4 attacks each it's not easy to kill or tarpit them in assault.

What are you guys solutions?

All I am coming up with is wraiths to tarpit.

If they're in squads, they move 6". If they're in a Pod, they will probably not do anything with their single shot, meaning you probably won't have to Jink your Ghost Ark, and then you unload 30 shots of Gauss which will statistically HP it out.

What's the issue you're having?

 Red Corsair wrote:
So I will first disclaim that I am starting out with my crons and I don't have tons of guys ready yet, but I recently played a 1500 point game against marines with two units of 2 dreads and I will admit that they were a major problem. Chewing through 6 hull points isn't easy and now with 4 attacks each it's not easy to kill or tarpit them in assault.

What are you guys solutions?

All I am coming up with is wraiths to tarpit.

What type of list were you running?

Well it was a mini campaign day and I started with troops in my collection. So I had a 20 man warrior squad, a 10 man warrior squad with an overlord in a NS and 5 immortals in a NS. I also had 2 5 man praetorian squads with rods and Illuminor in the 20 man blob. Oh and I had 15 flayed ones. I'll admit. there isn't a ton of variety in my list, but we were playing all maelstrom for the day and the objectives were evenly placed with one torward each corner and two in the middle, deployment was the old spearhead (shop hates vanguard and I tend to agree). It didn't help that he won the rolls for everything initially and basically he had a 2 man dread unit on either of his flanks and move+ran them between 2 objectives each turn 1.

I know I need ghost archs for my warriors and I have canoptek units, 3 spyders 20 scarabs and 6 wraiths unassembled, but even then with initiative 4 and 4 attacks each, these things will seriously cripple anything you toss near them in assault which leaved you with fishing for 6's I guess. The only things I can come up with besides tarpits and guass are heavy destroyers or doomscythes.

I will also add that this was one of those games where my dice were ice and his were on fire, he made 7 of 8 5+ cover saves on his relic predator and made 19 of 20 3+ saves then proceeded to 6+ FNP that failure (iron hands). So that game was gona suck either way but it made me realize how annoying dreads are now that they have units and 4 base attacks each.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
If they're in squads, they move 6". If they're in a Pod, they will probably not do anything with their single shot, meaning you probably won't have to Jink your Ghost Ark, and then you unload 30 shots of Gauss which will statistically HP it out.

What's the issue you're having?

Not sure I agree with your math. 20 hits will yield 3 HP's without cover which on the insane table we were on meant he was generally always getting a 5+ cover save unless about to assault. So assuming he rolled like a normal person that game that's 2 HP's out of 6, he can then rotate the injured one before assaulting. He also has IWND, so it gets even fuzzier.

Also, I need to assemble/'paint my 2 Ghost arks which I now know are a musty take for warriors.

I know guass will eventually do it, it just sucks being stuck on your heels for a turn or two in maelstrom, that can mean the game.