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harkequin wrote: Dude, you want tomb blades in combat!
They are amazing, and near invincible to any non-dedicated CC unit. The ammount of time tomb blades have saved my ass by assaulting something like scat-bikes or ork boyz , or devs is gilarious. they are an amazing tarpit, and cheap to boot.
[...]
In combat, they are T5 termies. Send them against anything AP4 or higher and tie it up for the whole game.
Tomb blades excell at getting in your face
New tactic discussion time:
How to make the most of your Assault Tomb Blades.
harkequin wrote: Dude, you want tomb blades in combat!
They are amazing, and near invincible to any non-dedicated CC unit. The ammount of time tomb blades have saved my ass by assaulting something like scat-bikes or ork boyz , or devs is gilarious. they are an amazing tarpit, and cheap to boot.
[...]
In combat, they are T5 termies. Send them against anything AP4 or higher and tie it up for the whole game.
Tomb blades excell at getting in your face
New tactic discussion time:
How to make the most of your Assault Tomb Blades.
Charge the thing with big scary guns, and spaghetti arms in CC If your beamer tomb blade jinked no one finishes it off, because it can't shoot them
Targets to tie up, scatbikes, D-cannon artillery, Devestators, Grave cents.
Hell, even If you rob ork boyz of the charge, you win.
3 tomb blades (decurion) vs 30 boyz, Tomb blades charge.
90 attacks, 45 hits, 7.5 wounds, 1.25 dead blades, assuming no re-roll ones on reanimation.
3 tomb blades, 6 attacks, 3 hits 1.5 ,1.25 dead boyz. HoW 3 hits, 1.25 dead boyz.
You win CC, and It'll take them 3 rounds to dislodge you from combat.
Back on the topic of Lychguard:
So LG with Scythes are slightly more difficult to kill than your average Plague Marine (which is pretty good).
+ Shields = much tougher to kill.
+ Decurion = pretty damn resilient.
+ Orikan = stupid resilient.
+ someone carrying the Solar Staff = practically invulnerable.
+ a Resurrection Orb = all but immortal.
...
Now if we were to add EVERYTHING on this list in sequence you'd have the most ridiculous unit buildable with the Necron codex. So what combination of things would work out well enough without breaking the bank, point-wise?
- Would a Decurion Sword & Shield unit with an attached Overlord carrying a ResOrb hold up alright? Or would a CAD version with Orikan work out better?
- If you're dead set on running Warscythes, what's the optimal way to attach HQs to keep the unit alive until they hit the opponent's lines?
- If using CAD Shield LG dropping in via Night Scythe or Veil, do you NEED the Solar Staff to survive that first crucial turn of doing nothing, or could you get away with just adding a ResOrb?
TL;DR- cheap but effective ways to run Lychguard in various ways
skoffs wrote: Back on the topic of Lychguard:
So LG with Scythes are slightly more difficult to kill than your average Plague Marine (which is pretty good).
+ Shields = much tougher to kill.
+ Decurion = pretty damn resilient.
+ Orikan = stupid resilient.
+ someone carrying the Solar Staff = practically invulnerable.
+ a Resurrection Orb = all but immortal.
...
Now if we were to add EVERYTHING on this list in sequence you'd have the most ridiculous unit buildable with the Necron codex. So what combination of things would work out well enough without breaking the bank, point-wise?
- Would a Decurion Sword & Shield unit with an attached Overlord carrying a ResOrb hold up alright? Or would a CAD version with Orikan work out better?
- If you're dead set on running Warscythes, what's the optimal way to attach HQs to keep the unit alive until they hit the opponent's lines?
- If using CAD Shield LG dropping in via Night Scythe or Veil, do you NEED the Solar Staff to survive that first crucial turn of doing nothing, or could you get away with just adding a ResOrb?
TL;DR- cheap but effective ways to run Lychguard in various ways
The budget version I've had succes with was
CAD orikan
5 shield guard
Lord with nightmare shroud.
355 points. 420 If your list needs zhandrekh.
It's still a pretty pointless unit for anyone to waste shots on.
Unless they have a ton of S10 AP2, you don't need decurion, as Orikan is still a cryptek.
Using your lordd you are immune to small arms from a chosen direction, and have enough resilience to big guns.
Great for durability, but doesn't break the bank.
Yeah, unless you have enough S10 or Force winging your way that ID is a substantial issue, you don't need a Decurion for an Orikanstar. In fact, even then you can slap in a vanilla Cryptek for the same effect.
Another possible variant to consider is 10 Scytheguard, Orikan, and a Cryptek with chronometron and teleport relic. Not as invincible, but still on the high end of durability and able to murder anything they contact. At worst, in combat they're effectively the equivalent of terminators with both the marks of Tzeentch and Nurgle. With -1 strength, +1 initiative chainfists.
Nah, I don't think I'd field Orikan except for with Shield-Gaurd. That combo is just too convenient.
(but that's just me, don't take that as a viable tactic suggestion)
For Scythe-Guard they're going to need three things minimum:
- increased RP to 4+++ (so either Decurion or an attached Cryptek)
- Delivery system (so either Night Scythe or Veil, though I guess Monolith is possible)
- Something to let them survive that first crucial drop turn (so any combination of Solar Staff, ResOrb, Chronometron, someone tanking with a 2+, etc)
If they take the Solar Staff, then the bearer can't take the Veil, meaning either a NS or additional HQ is required.
If they take the Veil, then they can still take a ResOrb to help keep them alive without the need of a 2nd HQ... but they'd still need the 4+++ (so 2nd HQ (Cryptek) would be required unless in Decurion).
Hmm... more complicated than anticipated.
skoffs wrote: Nah, I don't think I'd field Orikan except for with Shield-Gaurd. That combo is just too convenient.
(but that's just me, don't take that as a viable tactic suggestion)
For Scythe-Guard they're going to need three things minimum:
- increased RP to 4+++ (so either Decurion or an attached Cryptek)
- Delivery system (so either Night Scythe or Veil, though I guess Monolith is possible)
- Something to let them survive that first crucial drop turn (so any combination of Solar Staff, ResOrb, Chronometron, someone tanking with a 2+, etc)
If they take the Solar Staff, then the bearer can't take the Veil, meaning either a NS or additional HQ is required.
If they take the Veil, then they can still take a ResOrb to help keep them alive without the need of a 2nd HQ... but they'd still need the 4+++ (so 2nd HQ (Cryptek) would be required unless in Decurion).
Hmm... more complicated than anticipated.
I've ran it as Orikan and Obyron before, Orikan giving an Obyron a reroll on his 2+ armour and him having the option to detach after a few turns to stab something vulnerable alone.
But really the main reason I did that was because I wanted to save the veil for a Nightbringer Conclave Cryptek to do a 1-2 punch of teleporting into the enemy deployment zone... A tactic probably better suited to shieldguard admittedly, but I was going more for the shock tactic and maximised damage than perfect optimisation.
Yeah, the Oby-Ori combo is quite a doozy... though probably a little too expensive to consider for most players.
(but if you need that Veil to go on someone else *shrug* not much choice, i guess?)
But that is a valid tactic if you're going to try Scythe-Guard: give the opponent an even more immediate and pressing threat so as to divert all attention away. A Conclave-Nightbringer would do just that...
Scythe guard are just fine with Orikan. Against anything that's not AP3 or better, it's the same durability but with better weapons. So against Scatbikes, most Barrage weaponry, and any amount of small arms fire and most non-dedicated Assault, it's pretty darn unkillable still.
Of course, AP3 or better is on every Knight, WK, Grav squad, D-weapon, etc. So... make of that what you will.
skoffs wrote: Nah, I don't think I'd field Orikan except for with Shield-Gaurd. That combo is just too convenient.
(but that's just me, don't take that as a viable tactic suggestion)
For Scythe-Guard they're going to need three things minimum:
- increased RP to 4+++ (so either Decurion or an attached Cryptek)
- Delivery system (so either Night Scythe or Veil, though I guess Monolith is possible)
- Something to let them survive that first crucial drop turn (so any combination of Solar Staff, ResOrb, Chronometron, someone tanking with a 2+, etc)
If they take the Solar Staff, then the bearer can't take the Veil, meaning either a NS or additional HQ is required.
If they take the Veil, then they can still take a ResOrb to help keep them alive without the need of a 2nd HQ... but they'd still need the 4+++ (so 2nd HQ (Cryptek) would be required unless in Decurion).
Hmm... more complicated than anticipated.
I've ran it as Orikan and Obyron before, Orikan giving an Obyron a reroll on his 2+ armour and him having the option to detach after a few turns to stab something vulnerable alone.
But really the main reason I did that was because I wanted to save the veil for a Nightbringer Conclave Cryptek to do a 1-2 punch of teleporting into the enemy deployment zone... A tactic probably better suited to shieldguard admittedly, but I was going more for the shock tactic and maximised damage than perfect optimisation.
The teleporting concave here works VERY well with obi/ori in a unit of wraiths with beamers. A little off topic from LG, but a fun 1-2 t1 combo that can actually remove models. Of course you can do the LG instead with oby/ori and the wraiths will be there by t2 anyways. As for the "which lych to field" question I think shields are first. If you are really tenacious about this lords with scythes do the same thing as a mix and match and if you think that's too expensive it only justifies further the ret phalanx by giving them a sweet unit to land in.
Kevcron wrote: lords with scythes do the same thing as a mix and match [LG] and if you think that's too expensive it only justifies further the ret phalanx by giving them a sweet unit to land in.
... I'm not getting something here.
I get that Lords with Warscythes in Shield-Guard units are similar to a mixed S&S+WSLG unit... but how does the Retribution Phalanx fit into the equation?
Kevcron wrote: lords with scythes do the same thing as a mix and match [LG] and if you think that's too expensive it only justifies further the ret phalanx by giving them a sweet unit to land in.
... I'm not getting something here.
I get that Lords with Warscythes in Shield-Guard units are similar to a mixed S&S+WSLG unit... but how does the Retribution Phalanx fit into the equation?
Have you ever made a list with a couple ret phalanxes and wondered where to put those lords, or how to kit them out? Look no further than a shield guard unit and with warscythes
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/25 16:01:07
Ah, okay... but wouldn't you want to keep the Overlords away from danger? (Shield-Guard would keep them generally safe, but if you arm the Overlords with Warscythes you're more than likely probably going to be heading toward danger than trying to avoid it).
Well, here's my take. Orikan, 5 shields, and let's say two OL's (so you took 2 phalanxes) are in the unit. With orikan's buffs, 5 guys to hand look out sirs to, and the lord's own potential equipment, (maybe take an orb?) I feel that this unit is already a tough nut to crack-even sending it at targets. I know as necron players we are very OCD about our guys having every chance to survive, but this is an opportunity to take a chance on losing a lord compared with having a pretty darn good mini deathstar that has ap2 attacks. I would argue that the phalanxes themselves-if used properly and thrown at anything worrisome- should alone indirectly protect the lords even more.
skoffs wrote: Ah, okay... but wouldn't you want to keep the Overlords away from danger? (Shield-Guard would keep them generally safe, but if you arm the Overlords with Warscythes you're more than likely probably going to be heading toward danger than trying to avoid it).
You definitely want to send your Lychstar toward danger or strategic points where danger will find you. Otherwise that's a lot of points sitting around doing nothing. But it has to be stuff that it can survive. So you want to avoid SHV and GMC (because Stomps of 6) or match-ups where you get completely surrounded. If you are surrounded then the scarabs and the warriors won't have a place to re-spawn. Send the scarabs after the SHVs and the GMCs. The scarabs will make short work of the SHVs and tarpit the GMCs. When going up against Stompers, move the scarabs so that when they assault they will be maximally spaced out and Stomp resistant. Scarabs are really good at tying big nasties up so long as they don't have Hit N Run.
I have tested out my Retribution Phalanx list and it's a very potent list that is on par with Decurion Canoptek Harvest + D. Cult lists which is saying a lot. Re-spawning scarabs is really nifty. The amount of reach you get from the congo-line re-spawn + 12" beast move is pretty wild and they are very killy when sent against the right targets. Also the VSG kept my Stalkers alive - losing the first one turn 3 and the second one turn 4!
Spoiler:
Retribution phalanx with Overlord (PS,WS), Triarch Stalker, 10 x Warrior, 9 x Scarabs
Retribution phalanx with Overlord (PS,WS, GoF), Triarch Stalker, 10 x Warrior, 9 x Scarabs
CAD with Orikan, 6 Sword and Board Lychguard, 2 x 5 immortals, 3 x 1 Heavy Destroyers, VSG (3 shields)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/25 20:27:05
How did the LG+HQ star fare?
Were they actually able to do much themselves?
(I'd be tempted to drop something to free up points for a Veil so they're not stuck foot slogging across the board)
skoffs wrote: How did the LG+HQ star fare?
Were they actually able to do much themselves?
(I'd be tempted to drop something to free up points for a Veil so they're not stuck foot slogging across the board)
They were able to kill 10 BullyBoyz, so about 500 points, while the scarabs tied up 600 points of Big Mek Stompa.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Did you find the Void Shield Generator necessary? Genuinely curious as I don't like using Fortifications for the most part.
It kept my Stalkers alive until I could tie the Big Mek Stompa up in melee and take his crazy ranged stuff out of the picture. It also let me deploy bunched up so I could take advantage of the Stalker bubble with less fear of getting nailed by blasts from bunching up too close.
The Stalkers stayed alive until turn 3 and turn 4. That's a lot of bs6 and bs5 shooting.
I had two stalkers and their bubbles overlapped for a few of my units like the Heavy Destroyers.
Units can't benefit from the same special rule multiple times unless the rule specifies that it does.
Units can benefit from the same special rule from different sources (ie 2 crypteks with technomancer attached to a unit and the unit is hit by Instant Death attack means a 4+++ and not a 5+++), but the rule in question is worded such that the benefit can only be granted once. It depends on the wording and whether or not it is specified as cumulative. So you are correct and I mis-remembered the wording. It didn't matter in this particular game, but it's good for me to know going forward, so thanks for pointing out my oversight.
Spoiler:
Targeting Relay: All friendly non-vehicle units with the Necrons Faction within 6" of at
least one Triarch Stalker add 1 to their Ballistic Skill, unless they are firing Snap Shots.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/01/26 03:10:41
Ah, I thought maybe you had an Overlord near them or something (BS5 + 1 = ),
but who cares about measly BS6 that when you've got EQUIVALENT BS10 DESTROYERS EVERYWHERE
(god, I love that combo)
A combo that is fun to run, though only really in apocalypse is throw every named character with a max unit of LG with sword and board. A mostly impossible to kill unit, though thoroughly expensive.
oz of the north wrote: A combo that is fun to run, though only really in apocalypse is throw every named character with a max unit of LG with sword and board. A mostly impossible to kill unit, though thoroughly expensive.
... you know Stomps and Strength D are a fairly common thing now, right?
oz of the north wrote: A combo that is fun to run, though only really in apocalypse is throw every named character with a max unit of LG with sword and board. A mostly impossible to kill unit, though thoroughly expensive.
... you know Stomps and Strength D are a fairly common thing now, right?
True, but once you reach the "tipping point" of Warscythes and special rules, you should obliterate any SHW or GC before they get to I1 for Stomp. In apocalypse, throw in like 6-9 Overlords, full Shieldguard, Zahndrekh for Hatred, DLord for PE, one of the Overlords having Voidreaper, Orikan/Obyron, and no Wraithknight or ImpKnight should be able to stand up to you.
I never said it was super competitive since prohibitively points heavy but still really fun, since other than D or stomp. Not much will be able to kill it.
While on the tangent of ridiculous combat DeathStars, I can't remember, have we tried making a new Royal Court Disco Inferno in this thread yet?
I know we tried the shooty version Party Bus (with a whole bunch of Lords and Crypteks in a Ghost Ark) and that was kind of a bust, but I can't recall if we've attempted to make the combat version remotely playable.
If in a Decurion you could get 1 Destroyer Lord, 2 Overlords, 3 Lords and Orikan attached to a bunch of Shield-LG. What could we make out of that line up?
(or would it be more cost effective to use a CAD?)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Yeah, you could get a Decurion with a stock Rec.Legion (+ Shield-LG), a basic D.Cult (+ a couple of Heavy Ds), and a R.Court in under 1850.
The RCDI would consist of:
Rec.Legion - Overlord (WS, PS)
- 5x Lychguard (shields)
D.Cult - Destroyer Lord (WS, PS, Veil)
Royal Court - Zahndrekh
- Obyron
- Orikan
- Lord (WS)
- Lord (WS)
That's 5 Warscthes and 5 swords, plus Orikan's special weapon. A decent amount of hurt.
With the 5 Shield-LG to Look Out Sir, this unit should be pretty resilient. (though it's going to be a nightmare trying to keep track of all the special rules)
Granted, if you went the CAD route you'd be able to throw in a couple units of Wraiths to run up and catch things to hold until the deathstar could get there. Plus, you could afford to give the HQ some more interesting toys to play with (eg. Voidbringer).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/27 14:14:49
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