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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Now that GW is doing FAQ's maybe we'll get an answer hahaha!

I haven't been keeping up with the news, has there been any info on whether they actually ARE planning on finishing the FAQs? Or is it still just the GW running gag...
(it's been quite a while since we've had a usable FAQ... maybe it's because they're writing a new codex!)

Beats me. The purchase of a whole Obelisk kit is going to be hanging in the balance.

I agree that it is lame that the arc of a weapon on a vehicle is based on how it can physically turn in the real world or not, but there is a little silver lineing in that with the obelisk in that you can place the barrel of it aiming downward so it will always have a decent shot. But like the monolith will still be difficult to get two of them to shoot at the same unit.

Oberron wrote:
I agree that it is lame that the arc of a weapon on a vehicle is based on how it can physically turn in the real world or not, but there is a little silver lineing in that with the obelisk in that you can place the barrel of it aiming downward so it will always have a decent shot. But like the monolith will still be difficult to get two of them to shoot at the same unit.

If your TO adheres strictly to the 45 degree arc, then the inability to turn the barrel left or right makes it impossible to fire 2 at the same target unless that target were 18" long. It should be able to swivel like the monolith's weapons but for some reason they decided to make the model static.

Just tell people to point to the Tesla Sphere.

Ok, cool, that's the weapon. Underneath it is the turret.

It's a gamble if the TO goes along with it. A 160$ and 300 point gamble. I'm not willing to do that kind of gamble until there's an FAQ.

You may be waiting a very long time to place that bet, then...

That's probably correct.

Did ITC make their input at least? That...sometimes helps.

It's such a specific question that I've never seen it brought up in a tournament's FAQ. Even calling ahead of time doesn't give a satisfactory answer because they don't have the model on hand.

Well, there was an Obelisk in the top 8 of LVO, so you could ask people who went how they ruled it. I would imagine full range of motion, otherwise it would not have placed that well.

Dont suppose that player is a Dakka member/reddit user, is he?
Could ask him directly.

col_impact wrote:
This Top 8 LVO list has some interesting elements to it.

Spoiler:

Alexander Fennell

Decurion Detachment

Reclamation Legion (Core)

Nemesor Zandrekh 150

10 Warriors 130

10 Warriors 130

5 Immortals 85

3 Tomb Blades: shieldvanes, nebuloscopes 66

Canoptek Harvest (Auxiliary)

5 Wraiths: 1 whip coil 203

3 Scarabs 60

1 Tomb Spider: Gloom Prism 60

Destroyer Cult (Auxiliary)

Destroyer Lord: Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Nightmare Shroud 190

4 Destroyers 160

4 Destroyers 160

4 Destroyers 160

Royal Court (Auxiliary)

Overlord: warscythe 110

Lord: Solar Staff 65

Orikan the Diviner 120

No Heavy Destroyers.

Also, the list has the makings for a Lychstar but no Lychguard. Are the ICs attaching to the Wraiths?

This sort of list is pretty standard around here. Taking more then 3x3 destroyers is unusual, most people take more tomb blades instead. But yeah, the star is built around the wraith unit. It ends up being so much more mobile, even if the characters are still just as slow. Doesn't matter that much if the spyder dies, all the characters have RP anyway. Heavy destroyers are not really that good, I've also stopped using them. Although with ITC ruling on gauss not working on void shields, and those things being pretty common, I might take heavies just for that.

I do wonder what he ran up against. There are plenty of lists in my experience that have the capacity to just run roughshod through that. I mean, it would have a hard time with Eldar even playing to the objectives, just due to overall mobility discrepancy and the chance of getting Stomped out.

When running Triarch Stalkers, which gun is best? I'm currently debating between the heat ray and the HGC and the dilemma is whether I prefer the extra shot or the extra 12". I usually run two stalkers in a judicator battalion with the HGC and that works for me but is it as efficient as the heat ray. Would one of each be viable?

Typically it'll depend on what else you're bringing in your list.
Tons of foot slogging troops? Maybe heat Ray is alright.
Heavy Destroyers? Stick the HGC on it.

Just remember: if you go Heat Ray, you've gotta be close to use it... surviving to get into range for an open topped vehicle is not easy.

Camping in cover? Use the HGC.
Trying to get to the enemy up close? Keep it stock.

The Particle Shredder or whatever is cool seeing that it IS a Large Blast.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Camping in cover? Use the HGC.
Trying to get to the enemy up close? Keep it stock.

The Particle Shredder or whatever is cool seeing that it IS a Large Blast.

I'm actually tempted to run a squad of 3 with Particle Shredders someday. The formation benefits would essentially give the Shedders "Shred". I feel that would be deadly with the amount of hits it would dish out.

I guess if you know you're likely to run into Greentide it isn't a bad option, and S7 rerolling to penetrate can at least get an HP stripped.
It feels wrong not going with the HGC though. You can camp in terrain and just make sure the driver's head can poke out at the field so you can choose targets each turn!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I guess if you know you're likely to run into Greentide it isn't a bad option, and S7 rerolling to penetrate can at least get an HP stripped.
It feels wrong not going with the HGC though. You can camp in terrain and just make sure the driver's head can poke out at the field so you can choose targets each turn!

This is also true. I firmly believe that every weapon on the Stalker is good, just for different reasons.

How do you guys defend your Harvest Spyders against Alpha Strikes such as pods? I often lose mine on turn 1 to super aggressive drops from AdMech or SM, especially if they have Grav.

I was looking at fortifications, but I'm unsure. VSG is nice if you can buffer out the space with Warriors and Scarabs to prevent the Pods from getting in, but the shields aren't too hard for many armies to take down (Eldar or any Imperial with a Knight drops it pretty fast). Skyshield gives the Spyders a 4++, but Grav and things like Crusader Knights have enough shots to still strip it down quickly. One could take a Bastion and just put it in a corner, using it to LOS block since it's basically a big brick of vision block.

Or do you just accept that it's going to go down and move on with your game?

Requizen wrote:
How do you guys defend your Harvest Spyders against Alpha Strikes such as pods? I often lose mine on turn 1 to super aggressive drops from AdMech or SM, especially if they have Grav.

I was looking at fortifications, but I'm unsure. VSG is nice if you can buffer out the space with Warriors and Scarabs to prevent the Pods from getting in, but the shields aren't too hard for many armies to take down (Eldar or any Imperial with a Knight drops it pretty fast). Skyshield gives the Spyders a 4++, but Grav and things like Crusader Knights have enough shots to still strip it down quickly. One could take a Bastion and just put it in a corner, using it to LOS block since it's basically a big brick of vision block.

Or do you just accept that it's going to go down and move on with your game?

I try to hide it out of LOS as best as possible, and bubble wrap to the best of my ability.

However, that's not guaranteed to work, and thus you just move on with your game.

Need help to kill a Tzeench 'screamer star'.

Tzeench vs Necrons, principally the screamer star vs Orikan star. The combat lasted five turns (10 rounds of combat in tota) and by the end of it all I had was a single overlord having not killed a thing in the screamers.

He had, 9 x jetbike flying things, 3 x disks, 1x book, 1x D thirster. D thirster was invisible the whole time, book and other powers gave them all a 2+ rerollable invincible save.

I had: 10 sword and board lychguard, 1 overlord VR, PS, 1 overlord PS, WS, RO, NS, 1 lord PS, WS, 1 Orikan, 1 Tolhok the Blinded. 2+ rerollable armour save, 3++, 4+++, 1's rerollable.


I did not kill a single demon.

Advice please? I seriously think my list was the best it could have been...

You're not supposed to be able to kill the Screamerstar. 2++ rerolling isn't something you stop, just slow down. Throw Warriors at it and send your big scary deathstar somewhere else. Actually, better to use the Lychguard to tie up the Bloodthirster otherwise it's going to just rampage around the board and kill everything else.

You shouldn't expect to table Daemons unless you get really lucky on dice. You should instead just try to play to the objectives and ignore the power units.

Toholk the Blinded can't be in that group anyway, seeing that the Red Harvest Necrons are AoC.

Other than that, you really can't kill it, but they really can't kill Lychguard either. Tying them up isn't a bad idea, but I wouldn't use THAT many Lychguard.

So, ended up getting a game in using the double Retribution formation + Orokin CAD with 2 immortal squads, 5 sword and board lychguard, and 3 heavy destroyers. Was against KDK running a 8 squads of Bloodletters, 2 cannons, and 4 squads of cultists.

With 10 man warrior squads and 9 base scarabs in the Retribution Phalanxes, I was impressed with the amount of killing going on. I did a LOT of charging to deny the Bloodletters their charge advantage, although truth be told perhaps that wasn't the best idea. I didn't actually lose any entire squads until turn 4, although both Scarab squads got stuck in immediately and the warrior squad I respawned did do some shooting. But ultimately even nasty close combat squads were not chewing through the scarab swarms very fast, which surprised me.

45 attacks as the scarabs hurl themselves into their targets does a lot of damage, although the potential is much higher against WS4 models rather than WS5 Bloodletters. They also served as amazing tarpits, soaking up boatloads of wounds and staying in the fight for quite a long time. Dawn of War its entirely possible to have your scarabs charge turn 1, and 36 wounds is non-trivial to remove from the table. Smaller squads to take advantage of the ability to reappear and charge somewhere else.

Redeployment was surprisingly easy - within 3" gives you a lot of leeway, even for scarab bases. Overall I was impressed, although nothing was wiped off the table very quickly. The CAD though... well, there's not a lot there, although the Lychguard were a great wood chipper and bunker for my Overlords and Orokin. The Immortals just sat back and shot and then got assaulted off the table. That could use some tweaking, although it may have to do with the specific list as well.

 RuneGrey wrote:
So, ended up getting a game in using the double Retribution formation + Orokin CAD with 2 immortal squads, 5 sword and board lychguard, and 3 heavy destroyers. Was against KDK running a 8 squads of Bloodletters, 2 cannons, and 4 squads of cultists.

With 10 man warrior squads and 9 base scarabs in the Retribution Phalanxes, I was impressed with the amount of killing going on. I did a LOT of charging to deny the Bloodletters their charge advantage, although truth be told perhaps that wasn't the best idea. I didn't actually lose any entire squads until turn 4, although both Scarab squads got stuck in immediately and the warrior squad I respawned did do some shooting. But ultimately even nasty close combat squads were not chewing through the scarab swarms very fast, which surprised me.

45 attacks as the scarabs hurl themselves into their targets does a lot of damage, although the potential is much higher against WS4 models rather than WS5 Bloodletters. They also served as amazing tarpits, soaking up boatloads of wounds and staying in the fight for quite a long time. Dawn of War its entirely possible to have your scarabs charge turn 1, and 36 wounds is non-trivial to remove from the table. Smaller squads to take advantage of the ability to reappear and charge somewhere else.

Redeployment was surprisingly easy - within 3" gives you a lot of leeway, even for scarab bases. Overall I was impressed, although nothing was wiped off the table very quickly. The CAD though... well, there's not a lot there, although the Lychguard were a great wood chipper and bunker for my Overlords and Orokin. The Immortals just sat back and shot and then got assaulted off the table. That could use some tweaking, although it may have to do with the specific list as well.

Only 1 scarab base need to within 3" so you can congo-line the scarabs into new assaults.

Also, make sure to multi-assault with the scarabs so they will get recycled more frequently.

Also, you generally want to reserve your immortals and hide them next to objectives.

Not a lot of opportunity for multi-assault, and ultimately I was needing the huge mass of attacks to help cut down on the Bloodletters - but its definitely an idea. The deployment issue is honestly debatable - 'set up within 3 inches' can as easily mean setting up everything within 3, and that's how I play it for non-tourney games. Conga line allows you to charge anything, anywhere on the board if you're even close to the center, which is incredibly broken.

Immortals were nice and safe on objectives, but mass deep strike can always be a bit of a problem.

 RuneGrey wrote:
Not a lot of opportunity for multi-assault, and ultimately I was needing the huge mass of attacks to help cut down on the Bloodletters - but its definitely an idea. The deployment issue is honestly debatable - 'set up within 3 inches' can as easily mean setting up everything within 3, and that's how I play it for non-tourney games. Conga line allows you to charge anything, anywhere on the board if you're even close to the center, which is incredibly broken.

Immortals were nice and safe on objectives, but mass deep strike can always be a bit of a problem.

The BRB rule is clear in differentiating between 'within' (just a sliver of 1 scarab base within) and 'wholly within' (all scarab bases within 3') so you are handicapping yourself by playing it the way you do.

There is a considerable difference between talking about completely within for all models (which isn't realistic to do) and only one model being within 3" and the rest within 2" coherency after that. I agree that you only need to have a sliver within 3" of the Overlord, however the less broken approach is that the entire squad must deploy within 3" of the Overlord, not merely one member.

This still gives you a huge amount of control over the board, especially if you're commanding the center of the field - you can realistically hit any unit within 24" of your Overlord even deploying the whole squad within 3". Roughly 5" to the far edge of your furthest scarab base, followed by a 12" beast move, and then a 7" rerollable charge. Basically means if your Overlord is midfield that your scarbs can hit your opponent's table edge across most of the table.

 RuneGrey wrote:
There is a considerable difference between talking about completely within for all models (which isn't realistic to do) and only one model being within 3" and the rest within 2" coherency after that. I agree that you only need to have a sliver within 3" of the Overlord, however the less broken approach is that the entire squad must deploy within 3" of the Overlord, not merely one member.

This still gives you a huge amount of control over the board, especially if you're commanding the center of the field - you can realistically hit any unit within 24" of your Overlord even deploying the whole squad within 3". Roughly 5" to the far edge of your furthest scarab base, followed by a 12" beast move, and then a 7" rerollable charge. Basically means if your Overlord is midfield that your scarbs can hit your opponent's table edge across most of the table.

The rules are super clear on this. The rule would say "the models of the unit must be set up within 3"" if it were supposed to resolve as you say. "Unit must be setup within 3"" is satisfied by a single model of the scarab unit "within" the 3" range.



So long as the closest scarab model is within 3" of the Overlord, the scarab unit has been deployed within 3" of the Overlord and the rule is satisfied.

It's not like you require the IC to be within 2" of every model in a Lychguard unit to be able to join a unit, correct?