Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

*sigh...*


[edit]
oh wtf??
I was just expressing my disappointment at yet ANOTHER rules lawyering bonanza going down in the tactics thread when the dice gods decided i needed to be top post on another page AGAIN.
(I really need to pay attention to how many posts a page has before I say anything from now on. it's getting ridiculous)

 skoffs wrote:
*sigh...*


[edit]
oh wtf??
I was just expressing my disappointment at yet ANOTHER rules lawyering bonanza going down in the tactics thread when the dice gods decided i needed to be top post on another page AGAIN.
(I really need to pay attention to how many posts a page has before I say anything from now on. it's getting ridiculous)

It's okay. Not happens to the best of us.

Now, on a completely different note, let us consider the viability of a list with three squads of three Triarch Stalkers.

Wraiths have got a new CC bad boy to contend with.

Wulfen with stock FNP and with TH/SS are super tough and super killy.

col_impact wrote:
Wraiths have got a new CC bad boy to contend with.

Wulfen with stock FNP and with TH/SS are super tough and super killy.

Wraiths were never that killy. >.>

And yeah, just bring some S8+, or drown them in fire. Or start bringing Rez orbs for your non-wraith units.

Wulfen are glass cannons, not that hard to kill, but whatever they charge is in a lot of problems.

Wulfen kitted out are far from glass, more like a regular cannon.
Strong as hell, and you have to hit it with something big to take it out.

Wulfen are going to have 2 TH/SS guys in front, with 2 wounds a piece. Against anything not S8+ they might as well be 4 2++ termies.

Against S8, they get significantly worse, becoming the equivalent of 2 tac marines (with a 3++)

If you can break through the 4 wounds of 3++ 5+++ they will fold like paper, the problem is getting through them.

They also are expensive. 30 pts per model, 20 more for the shield.

And they will need an assault vehicle because walking will get them nowhere.

Kill them with weight of fire or Str 8. That being said, Necrons don't have much of either of them. The best option could be Flayed Ones and their insane number of attacks.

I think you kit all of the Wulfen out with TH/SS.

At 50 ppm they are comparable to a Canoptek Harvest Wraith ppm due to the Canoptek Tax.

And don't forget they are hitting with 5 S10 ap2 attacks on the charge and they get those attacks even if you kill them first.

If they are in a MurderPack they get additional attack on a roll of 6.

Put them in a Fast Attack Drop Pod so they are in range of things to charge when they hit the table.

I reckon a claw or 2 are pretty good. I5 S6 AP2 Shred is massive.
It means charging them with say, a kitted out squad of vanguard vets, is worthless, you will get turned to mince before you swing, even if the vets are all sporting lightning claws. Each claw wulfen will kill 2 MEQs before they swing, when they get charged.
On the charge 1 claw dude will kill 3 MEQs, and if he then gets killed at I4, he kills another 3. 42 points for that killing power is mental.
Any fancy beatstick HQ like draigo or calgar, will fare much better against the TH/SS , but getting 12 S6 AP2 Shred attacks from a 42 point model on the charge will annihilate most models, and this is still before I1

Thing I'm wondering is: do we shoot 'em or melee them?
If shoot, with what? (Destroyers to get through their armor? Heavies to get some S8 on them? Drown them in gauss?)
If melee, who? (Wraiths/Orikan-star to tarpit? Praets/Lychguard to get past armor? Flayed Ones to make them fail saves?)

Well, if they bring all of them with Stormshields, just drown them in fire. Warriors, Destroyers, Heavy Destroyers, Tesla Destructors, ext. Shoot as much as you can, then tie up the rest with Wraiths.

If they only bring a few with Shields and keep them out front, then Deep Striking a Monolith on their Flank or Rear suddenly becomes an attractive idea.

Hey since heavy destroyers are jetpacks now I was wondering how a unit of heavy destroyers with illuminor Szeras with them would work. His S8 ap2 lance would aim at the same targets a h.destroyer would, he give the unit a +1to rp as well as any other unit around him and the t5 helps protect szeras. With a destroyer cult formation he would work better then the D.lord would in a unit. His bonus to a unit of immortals/warriors would just be a bonus at this point.

Thoughts?

Oberron wrote:
Hey since heavy destroyers are jetpacks now I was wondering how a unit of heavy destroyers with illuminor Szeras with them would work. His S8 ap2 lance would aim at the same targets a h.destroyer would, he give the unit a +1to rp as well as any other unit around him and the t5 helps protect szeras. With a destroyer cult formation he would work better then the D.lord would in a unit. His bonus to a unit of immortals/warriors would just be a bonus at this point.

Thoughts?

I take advantage of jetpack mobility a lot with my Destroyers, so I don't think you want him to actually join a Destroyer unit.

col_impact wrote:

Oberron wrote:
Hey since heavy destroyers are jetpacks now I was wondering how a unit of heavy destroyers with illuminor Szeras with them would work. His S8 ap2 lance would aim at the same targets a h.destroyer would, he give the unit a +1to rp as well as any other unit around him and the t5 helps protect szeras. With a destroyer cult formation he would work better then the D.lord would in a unit. His bonus to a unit of immortals/warriors would just be a bonus at this point.

Thoughts?

I take advantage of jetpack mobility a lot with my Destroyers, so I don't think you want him to actually join a Destroyer unit.

True the mobility is nice. Maybe stick him in a ghost ark so his area is bigger and target a 20man warrior unit with his ability and just support it with the GA to keep them up. Still gives the +1 to everything, and still has decent protection. I have a 1k game tomorrow I think i'll try him in it. see how its goes

Well, there used to be a tactic with the 6th ed codex where you'd take Harbingers of Destruction and stick them in Ghost Arks to give them a lascanon... that's essentially what you're doing here (though you'd never do this in a bigger point game. Too many points to justify it... I miss the Harbingers)

 skoffs wrote:
Well, there used to be a tactic with the 6th ed codex where you'd take Harbingers of Destruction and stick them in Ghost Arks to give them a lascanon... that's essentially what you're doing here (though you'd never do this in a bigger point game. Too many points to justify it... I miss the Harbingers)

I miss the Haywire....

As much as I hate allying with the dirty fish, I was thinking of taking a Farsight Enclaves detachment with ObSec suits. While I really love my Destroyers, I think some varied shooting might be worthwhile, and getting the ObSec deep striking alongside my Decurion might be quite worthwhile.

Will want to convert them up to be a bit more Necron-y though...

Make custom Necron-y versions out of bits?
(like that one guy did with his Annihilation Barge, basically turning into a Riptide)
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/05/showcase-conversion-corner-necron-walker-contest-winner.html

Yeah something similar. I was thinking some sort of Destroyer conversion since they're pretty similar in use and build.

It would be pretty cool to see a slightly different Destroyer body, loaded up with Tau weaponry.

Personally, I don't understand why they gave Destroyers only two weapon choices.
I mean, these guys are supposed to be customization junkies, right? Always swapping out parts of their bodies for bits that help them kill better... and yet none of them decided to strap a Tesla Canon onto their arm instead of a Gauss Canon? They'll stick a Heavy Gauss Canon on, but not a Heat Ray? None of them thought Particle Blast Weapons or Transdimensional Beamers were of any interest?
... lazy, Gw. Lazy.

skoffs wrote:Make custom Necron-y versions out of bits?
(like that one guy did with his Annihilation Barge, basically turning into a Riptide)
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/05/showcase-conversion-corner-necron-walker-contest-winner.html

That is soooo cool man!

skoffs wrote:Personally, I don't understand why they gave Destroyers only two weapon choices.
I mean, these guys are supposed to be customization junkies, right? Always swapping out parts of their bodies for bits that help them kill better... and yet none of them decided to strap a Tesla Canon onto their arm instead of a Gauss Canon? They'll stick a Heavy Gauss Canon on, but not a Heat Ray? None of them thought Particle Blast Weapons or Transdimensional Beamers were of any interest?
... lazy, Gw. Lazy.

I second this, given we don't have a massive pool of weaponry to swap around on our squads, I feel this would have been a very solid potential space for us to do that. Otherwise it's really only tomb blades and wraiths with the option of having more than 2 weapons, and the wraiths are only realistically going to run one option the majority of the time anyway.

 skoffs wrote:
Personally, I don't understand why they gave Destroyers only two weapon choices.
I mean, these guys are supposed to be customization junkies, right? Always swapping out parts of their bodies for bits that help them kill better... and yet none of them decided to strap a Tesla Canon onto their arm instead of a Gauss Canon? They'll stick a Heavy Gauss Canon on, but not a Heat Ray? None of them thought Particle Blast Weapons or Transdimensional Beamers were of any interest?
... lazy, Gw. Lazy.

Tesla didn't exist when the models were first designed. Any new options would have required a new kit in this post-Chapterhouse age. The only new kit that we got with the new codex was the Overlord.

 Ghaz wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Personally, I don't understand why they gave Destroyers only two weapon choices.
I mean, these guys are supposed to be customization junkies, right? Always swapping out parts of their bodies for bits that help them kill better... and yet none of them decided to strap a Tesla Canon onto their arm instead of a Gauss Canon? They'll stick a Heavy Gauss Canon on, but not a Heat Ray? None of them thought Particle Blast Weapons or Transdimensional Beamers were of any interest?
... lazy, Gw. Lazy.

Tesla didn't exist when the models were first designed. Any new options would have required a new kit in this post-Chapterhouse age. The only new kit that we got with the new codex was the Overlord.

An upgrade sprue wouldn't have been possible? They did it for the Destroyer Lord and Heavy Destroyers.
Hell, they could have been utter bastards and made it exclusively available only in the box of three.

Though, I digress, this isn't tactic related...

Back on topic,
So Cult Destroyers are pretty decent against armor, what with their rerolls for pens (they also ain't bad against Wolfen)... if you were trying to run them that way and REALLY wanted to go gung-ho with 18 of 'em at once, would there be any point in going three units of 6 in a single Cult, or is double Cult for six units of 3 the only way to go?

It isn't impossible for those bitz to be made either; the Tomb Blades have Tesla stuff that you could mess around with.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It isn't impossible for those bitz to be made either; the Tomb Blades have Tesla stuff that you could mess around with.

The real question comes down to, Would you really want to exchange the Gauss Cannons for Tesla Cannons on Destroyers?

 krodarklorr wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It isn't impossible for those bitz to be made either; the Tomb Blades have Tesla stuff that you could mess around with.

The real question comes down to, Would you really want to exchange the Gauss Cannons for Tesla Cannons on Destroyers?

Hahaha not even a little bit. Sure, PE on the unit for chances at more Tesla is nice, but Destroyers are our AP3 unit and trading that out feels really, really poor. And having the rerolls for Gauss in the formation has gotten me plenty of glances on AV12+, which Tesla doesn't do.

Requizen wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It isn't impossible for those bitz to be made either; the Tomb Blades have Tesla stuff that you could mess around with.

The real question comes down to, Would you really want to exchange the Gauss Cannons for Tesla Cannons on Destroyers?

Hahaha not even a little bit. Sure, PE on the unit for chances at more Tesla is nice, but Destroyers are our AP3 unit and trading that out feels really, really poor. And having the rerolls for Gauss in the formation has gotten me plenty of glances on AV12+, which Tesla doesn't do.

Well, I mean, it could glance AV12. Remember, Tesla Cannons are actually S6.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It isn't impossible for those bitz to be made either; the Tomb Blades have Tesla stuff that you could mess around with.

The real question comes down to, Would you really want to exchange the Gauss Cannons for Tesla Cannons on Destroyers?

Hahaha not even a little bit. Sure, PE on the unit for chances at more Tesla is nice, but Destroyers are our AP3 unit and trading that out feels really, really poor. And having the rerolls for Gauss in the formation has gotten me plenty of glances on AV12+, which Tesla doesn't do.

Well, I mean, it could glance AV12. Remember, Tesla Cannons are actually S6.

Oh, I suppose that's right. Still, doesn't help against Knight front armor. And AP3 against MEQ or worse and against WKs (where Destroyers also come in handy) is a pretty good thing.

I dunno. I rarely find a reason to bring Tesla when Gauss is available. If the Night Scythe/Doom Scythe could bring Heavy Gauss Cannons instead of the Tesla Cannons I'd be ripping apart my flyers post-haste.

Requizen wrote:

Oh, I suppose that's right. Still, doesn't help against Knight front armor. And AP3 against MEQ or worse and against WKs (where Destroyers also come in handy) is a pretty good thing.

I dunno. I rarely find a reason to bring Tesla when Gauss is available. If the Night Scythe/Doom Scythe could bring Heavy Gauss Cannons instead of the Tesla Cannons I'd be ripping apart my flyers post-haste.

Oooooo, I'd be right there with you. Twin-linked Heavy Gauss Cannons fo days.

Still, I'd like to think if Destroyers had the option, I'd actually try it out every so often. Especially if I wanted to play a more fun, less competitive Destroyer Cult list. But over all you're right, the AP3 and Gauss is too good to pass up.

Speaking of Destroyer Cult, is anyone else annoyed you have to bring a minimum of 3 units of Destroyers? I don't mind making the minimum squad 3, but it makes the cost too high for smaller games, and gives less points to play with.

If it were a Destroyer Lord and a minimum of 2 units of Destroyers, I'd be ecstatic. Also would like to take 0-2 units of Heavy Destroyers but that's a different topic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of Destroyer Cult, is anyone else annoyed you have to bring a minimum of 3 units of Destroyers? I don't mind making the minimum squad 3, but it makes the cost too high for smaller games, and gives less points to play with.

If it were a Destroyer Lord and a minimum of 2 units of Destroyers, I'd be ecstatic. Also would like to take 0-2 units of Heavy Destroyers but that's a different topic.