whembly wrote:

Politics as usual? Or is this something we all should condemn, regardless of your political spectrum?

So, in Reid's world, it is perfectly acceptable to make a defamatory charge against an opponent to damage his campaign.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

So, in Reid's world, it is perfectly acceptable to make a defamatory charge against an opponent to damage his campaign.

That's pretty rich coming from the Examiner.

Tu quoque (/tuːˈkwoʊkwiː/;[1] Latin for "you, too" or "you, also") or the appeal to hypocrisy is an informal logical fallacy that intends to discredit the opponent's position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position. It attempts to show that a criticism or objection applies equally to the person making it. This attempts to dismiss opponent's position based on criticism of the opponent's inconsistency and not the position presented

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

So, in Reid's world, it is perfectly acceptable to make a defamatory charge against an opponent to damage his campaign.

That's pretty rich coming from the Examiner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Tu quoque (/tuːˈkwoʊkwiː/;[1] Latin for "you, too" or "you, also") or the appeal to hypocrisy is an informal logical fallacy that intends to discredit the opponent's position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position. It attempts to show that a criticism or objection applies equally to the person making it. This attempts to dismiss opponent's position based on criticism of the opponent's inconsistency and not the position presented

WASHINGTON (AP) — Sen. Bob Menendez, the son of Cuban immigrants who rose to become one of the highest-ranking Hispanic members of Congress, was charged Wednesday with accepting nearly $1 million worth of gifts and campaign contributions from a longtime friend in exchange for a stream of political favors.

Menendez predicted he would be "vindicated" and said "this is not how my career is going to end" in a defiant statement in front of reporters and cheering supporters Wednesday evening.

"I am not going anywhere. I'm angry and ready to fight because today contradicts my public service and my entire life," he said.

A federal grand jury indictment accuses the New Jersey Democrat of using the power of his Senate seat to benefit Dr. Salomon Melgen, a wealthy Florida eye doctor who prosecutors say provided the senator with luxury vacations, airline travel, golf trips and tens of thousands of dollars in contributions to a legal defense fund.

The indictment from a federal grand jury in Newark contains 14 counts — including bribery, conspiracy and false statements — against Menendez and also charges Melgen, a political donor to Menendez and other Democrats.

Menendez is scheduled to appear in federal court in Newark, New Jersey, on Thursday.

The criminal charges cloud the political future of the top Democrat — and former chairman — of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, who has played a leading role on Capitol Hill on matters involving Iran's nuclear program and U.S. efforts to improve ties with Cuba. Two people familiar with Menendez's situation who were not authorized to discuss the senator's plans publicly said Menendez would voluntarily and temporarily step aside from his role as top Democrat on the committee.

Melgen's attorney did not immediately return a call seeking comment Wednesday.

The indictment will almost certainly lead to a drawn-out legal fight between Menendez and a team of Justice Department corruption prosecutors who have spent at least two years investigating his ties to Melgen. It will require prosecutors to prove that a close and longtime friendship between the men was used for criminal purposes and is likely to revive legal debate about the constitutional protections afforded to members of Congress for acts they take while in office.

The indictment marks the latest development in a federal investigation that came into public view when federal authorities raided Melgen's medical offices in 2013.

Menendez acknowledged around that time that he had taken several round-trip flights to the Dominican Republic on Melgen's luxury jet that, initially, were not properly reimbursed. But the 68-page document spells out additional gifts, such as a Paris hotel stay and access to a Dominican resort, that were not reported on financial disclosure forms.

In exchange for those and other gifts, prosecutors allege, Menendez sought to smooth approval of the visa application process for several of Melgen's foreign girlfriends, sought to protect a lucrative contract Melgen held to provide cargo screening services to the Dominican Republic and intervened in a Medicare billing dispute on the doctor's behalf worth millions of dollars.

In 2013, in an email exchange one day after Melgen and Menendez had golfed together in Florida, Menendez told his chief counsel to contact U.S. Customs and Border Protection to ask the agency to stop donating shipping container monitoring and surveillance equipment to the Dominican Republic, according to the indictment. Melgen had a contract to provide exclusive cargo screening in Dominican ports, and the CBP plan would have hurt his financial interests, prosecutors say.

Menendez has acknowledged taking actions that could benefit Melgen, among them contacting U.S. health agencies to ask about billing practices and policies. But the lawmaker has said he did nothing wrong and that the interactions he had with the doctor were reflections of a close friendship dating two decades.

"We celebrated holidays together," he told reporters last month amid news reports of a looming indictment. "We have been there for family weddings and sad times like funerals and have given each other birthday, holiday and wedding presents, just as friends do."

Melgen himself came under renewed scrutiny when government data last year showed he had received more in Medicare reimbursements in 2012 than any other doctor in the country.

According to the Senate Historical Office, Menendez is the 12th senator to be indicted and the first since the late Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, was indicted in 2008 on charges of not reporting hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of home renovations. Stevens was convicted but the charges were later dismissed.

Menendez is also the second New Jersey senator to be indicted. Harrison Williams Jr., a Democrat, was indicted in 1980 on corruption charges and convicted of bribery and other counts the following year. Williams resigned before the Senate could vote on whether to expel him.

Menendez, 61, joined the Senate in 2006 after serving more than a decade in the House of Representatives. A lawyer and former mayor of Union City, New Jersey, Menendez also served in the New Jersey General Assembly and state Senate.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
You do not have to defend Reid, you merely have to attempt to point out the inconsistency in the other's position. What you have done is textbook tu quoque.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
You do not have to defend Reid, you merely have to attempt to point out the inconsistency in the other's position. What you have done is textbook tu quoque.

No, it really isn't because I'm not trying to discredit the author's position nor am I saying that they are wrong (which they aren't; Reid lied and has no qualms about it). If I said they were wrong or that Reid was right to say what he said, you'd have an argument here, but I didn't. Merely pointing out that the paper is being hypocritical (which it is) but also agreeing that they are correct isn't an appeal to hypocrisy.

So before you rush to cry "fallacy!" perhaps you should get a better understanding of what you're accusing people of.

Dreadclaw69 wrote:Tu quoque (/tuːˈkwoʊkwiː/;[1] Latin for "you, too" or "you, also") or the appeal to hypocrisy is an informal logical fallacy that intends to discredit the opponent's position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position. It attempts to show that a criticism or objection applies equally to the person making it. This attempts to dismiss opponent's position based on criticism of the opponent's inconsistency and not the position presented

Dreadclaw69 wrote:You do not have to defend Reid, you merely have to attempt to point out the inconsistency in the other's position. What you have done is textbook tu quoque.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
No, it really isn't because I'm not trying to discredit the author's position nor am I saying that they are wrong.

Dreadclaw69 wrote:The supplied quote appears to disagree with you.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
That's pretty rich coming from the Examiner.

informal — used to say that a person's comment or criticism is surprising or amusing because the same comment or criticism could be made about that person

Michelle Bachmann wrote:With his Iran deal, Barack Obama is for the 300 million souls of the United States what Andreas Lubitz was for the 150 souls on the German Wings flight - a deranged pilot flying his entire nation into the rocks. After the fact, among the smoldering remains of American cities, the shocked survivors will ask, why did he do it?

 streamdragon wrote:
So... this happened.

Michelle Bachmann wrote:With his Iran deal, Barack Obama is for the 300 million souls of the United States what Andreas Lubitz was for the 150 souls on the German Wings flight - a deranged pilot flying his entire nation into the rocks. After the fact, among the smoldering remains of American cities, the shocked survivors will ask, why did he do it?

MrDwhitey wrote:Well yes, everyone knows she's fething crazy.

whembly wrote:
Wat?

I'm so glad she's retiring.

 streamdragon wrote:
So... this happened.

Michelle Bachmann wrote:With his Iran deal, Barack Obama is for the 300 million souls of the United States what Andreas Lubitz was for the 150 souls on the German Wings flight - a deranged pilot flying his entire nation into the rocks. After the fact, among the smoldering remains of American cities, the shocked survivors will ask, why did he do it?

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
He even limited what the Moreland commission could look at to protect himself, and then disbanded it before it found anything useful about anything.

 whembly wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
He even limited what the Moreland commission could look at to protect himself, and then disbanded it before it found anything useful about anything.

That right there will kill any national aspiration for Presidency for Cuomo...

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:


Back on topic, looks like it's open season on corruption;
http://news.yahoo.com/jersey-sen-bob-menendez-indicted-corruption-charges-195317722--politics.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — Sen. Bob Menendez, the son of Cuban immigrants who rose to become one of the highest-ranking Hispanic members of Congress, was charged Wednesday with accepting nearly $1 million worth of gifts and campaign contributions from a longtime friend in exchange for a stream of political favors.

Menendez predicted he would be "vindicated" and said "this is not how my career is going to end" in a defiant statement in front of reporters and cheering supporters Wednesday evening.

"I am not going anywhere. I'm angry and ready to fight because today contradicts my public service and my entire life," he said.

A federal grand jury indictment accuses the New Jersey Democrat of using the power of his Senate seat to benefit Dr. Salomon Melgen, a wealthy Florida eye doctor who prosecutors say provided the senator with luxury vacations, airline travel, golf trips and tens of thousands of dollars in contributions to a legal defense fund.

The indictment from a federal grand jury in Newark contains 14 counts — including bribery, conspiracy and false statements — against Menendez and also charges Melgen, a political donor to Menendez and other Democrats.

Menendez is scheduled to appear in federal court in Newark, New Jersey, on Thursday.

The criminal charges cloud the political future of the top Democrat — and former chairman — of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, who has played a leading role on Capitol Hill on matters involving Iran's nuclear program and U.S. efforts to improve ties with Cuba. Two people familiar with Menendez's situation who were not authorized to discuss the senator's plans publicly said Menendez would voluntarily and temporarily step aside from his role as top Democrat on the committee.

Melgen's attorney did not immediately return a call seeking comment Wednesday.

The indictment will almost certainly lead to a drawn-out legal fight between Menendez and a team of Justice Department corruption prosecutors who have spent at least two years investigating his ties to Melgen. It will require prosecutors to prove that a close and longtime friendship between the men was used for criminal purposes and is likely to revive legal debate about the constitutional protections afforded to members of Congress for acts they take while in office.

The indictment marks the latest development in a federal investigation that came into public view when federal authorities raided Melgen's medical offices in 2013.

Menendez acknowledged around that time that he had taken several round-trip flights to the Dominican Republic on Melgen's luxury jet that, initially, were not properly reimbursed. But the 68-page document spells out additional gifts, such as a Paris hotel stay and access to a Dominican resort, that were not reported on financial disclosure forms.

In exchange for those and other gifts, prosecutors allege, Menendez sought to smooth approval of the visa application process for several of Melgen's foreign girlfriends, sought to protect a lucrative contract Melgen held to provide cargo screening services to the Dominican Republic and intervened in a Medicare billing dispute on the doctor's behalf worth millions of dollars.

In 2013, in an email exchange one day after Melgen and Menendez had golfed together in Florida, Menendez told his chief counsel to contact U.S. Customs and Border Protection to ask the agency to stop donating shipping container monitoring and surveillance equipment to the Dominican Republic, according to the indictment. Melgen had a contract to provide exclusive cargo screening in Dominican ports, and the CBP plan would have hurt his financial interests, prosecutors say.

Menendez has acknowledged taking actions that could benefit Melgen, among them contacting U.S. health agencies to ask about billing practices and policies. But the lawmaker has said he did nothing wrong and that the interactions he had with the doctor were reflections of a close friendship dating two decades.

"We celebrated holidays together," he told reporters last month amid news reports of a looming indictment. "We have been there for family weddings and sad times like funerals and have given each other birthday, holiday and wedding presents, just as friends do."

Melgen himself came under renewed scrutiny when government data last year showed he had received more in Medicare reimbursements in 2012 than any other doctor in the country.

According to the Senate Historical Office, Menendez is the 12th senator to be indicted and the first since the late Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, was indicted in 2008 on charges of not reporting hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of home renovations. Stevens was convicted but the charges were later dismissed.

Menendez is also the second New Jersey senator to be indicted. Harrison Williams Jr., a Democrat, was indicted in 1980 on corruption charges and convicted of bribery and other counts the following year. Williams resigned before the Senate could vote on whether to expel him.

Menendez, 61, joined the Senate in 2006 after serving more than a decade in the House of Representatives. A lawyer and former mayor of Union City, New Jersey, Menendez also served in the New Jersey General Assembly and state Senate.

...
Sen. Robert Menendez’s (N.J.) decision to step aside temporarily as ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee following his indictment on Wednesday could jeopardize Congress’s chances of passing Iran legislation.

Menendez has co-authored legislation with Chairman Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) that would allow the Senate to weigh in on any nuclear deal with Iran, and a separate bill that would restore and impose tougher sanctions on Iran if it walks away from talks or violates a deal.

The Foreign Relations Committee is set to vote April 14 on the bill he co-authored with Corker calling for Senate review of an Iran deal. If Menendez is out of the picture long-term, it could sap Democratic support for legislation that the White House has already threatened to veto.
...

 dogma wrote:
Are you seriously trying to pretend Corker has no conflicts of interest?

 whembly wrote:

 dogma wrote:
Are you seriously trying to pretend Corker has no conflicts of interest?

I'm not following...

 Jihadin wrote:
Doesn't Corker though have both parties support?