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2015/08/20 16:52:20
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Tannhauser42 wrote: Not to be morbid, but did anybody else see the news that Jimmy Carter's cancer has spread to his brain? I wonder if any of the candidates will try to politicize it?
I doubt it. There's lots of room for backlash, and to what gain? There is no attack that I can conceive of that gives a boost in the polls to any meaningful segment of the electorate.
It's not that I could see any of the candidates attacking him. It's that I could see them trying to get his endorsement, or trying to outdo each other in praising him.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
2015/08/20 16:57:15
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
BrotherGecko wrote: A lot of people watch FoxNews only, believe Obama is a Muslim anti-christ that is supplying his allies ISIS, created a convert military operation in the Southwest to conquer the "real" Americans and instill martial law.
You can put out the message but its up to people to educate themselves and the media to not alter it to push their agenda.
Those are Republicans. He had a Democratic majority in both, and he acted like it. Blaming the other guy when you control the Executive, the Senate, and the House is what we call....lame.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/20 16:57:53
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/08/20 16:57:23
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Tannhauser42 wrote: It's not that I could see any of the candidates attacking him. It's that I could see them trying to get his endorsement, or trying to outdo each other in praising him.
I think that's unlikely as well; he wasn't generally considered a super successful president and he doesn't really peddle influence currently. I would expect some token gestures of support all around, but the only one I see really reaching out is President Obama, since he really has nothing to lose in doing so. I don't really see the GOP tripping over themselves to praise Jimmy Carter.
But I could be wrong. I could see ¡Jeb! saying something, maybe. We'll have to see, be something to watch.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/20 16:58:29
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2015/08/20 16:57:25
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Hmmmm, I could see that, apologies for the miscommunication.
I meant that as a list rather than a symptom of FoxNews. However, watching only *FoxNews would lead people see only a demonized Obama (and liberals).
*you can include MSNBC in the converse.
2015/08/20 17:03:31
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
So your argument is as weak as a baby's walking ability. Got it.
Its stronger than the one behind the notion that "anchor babies" are a significant problem.
BrotherGecko wrote: Hmmmm, I could see that, apologies for the miscommunication.
I meant that as a list rather than a symptom of FoxNews. However, watching only *FoxNews would lead people see only a demonized Obama (and liberals).
*you can include MSNBC in the converse.
That really applies to any instance in which a person gets their information from a single source, or group of similar sources. But the fact of the matter is that thinking critically is much more difficult and time consuming than not doing so and, at least with respect to politics, there is often very little to gain in expending the effort.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/20 17:35:16
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2015/08/20 17:39:29
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Here's the interesting part. As Secretary of State, who routinely gets secret info, but if we followed her words, she then could never get emails about secret info.
How did she expect to do business in the 21st century?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/08/20 17:49:31
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Sanders is getting more and more popular support. It is a shame that the mainstream media is neglecting to cover him. The despicable incident where BLM crashed his rally was the only time I have properly seen him on TV.
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
2015/08/20 21:20:32
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Verviedi wrote: Sanders is getting more and more popular support. It is a shame that the mainstream media is neglecting to cover him. The despicable incident where BLM crashed his rally was the only time I have properly seen him on TV.
As much as I would like otherwise, I don't think he has any realistic chance at the nomination for a multitude of reasons. However, I do think he's gong to push Clinton into having to co-opt his platform and his issues up as her own and keep them going that way.
But he was never going to get a fair shake.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2015/08/20 21:59:51
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Verviedi wrote: Sanders is getting more and more popular support. It is a shame that the mainstream media is neglecting to cover him. The despicable incident where BLM crashed his rally was the only time I have properly seen him on TV.
As much as I would like otherwise, I don't think he has any realistic chance at the nomination for a multitude of reasons. However, I do think he's gong to push Clinton into having to co-opt his platform and his issues up as her own and keep them going that way.
But he was never going to get a fair shake.
No one thought Obama had a chance before the first primary either...
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/08/20 22:13:20
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Those two emails that the IG reported as classified?
Hillary received email full of sensitive military intelligence & troop movements during our Not War with Libya. https://t.co/xffpNy9j6L
— Cuffy (@CuffyMeh) August 19, 2015
Apparently weren't marked as classified when Clinton received them.
From the article referenced by Noah Rothman in the tweet referenced by whoever the feth @CuffyMeh is:
One of the emails was originally written by the State Department's Timmy Davis in April of 2011 and forwarded to then-Secretary Clinton by longtime aide Huma Abedin. It contained what Davis believed to be sensitive but unclassified information from U.S. Special Envoy to Libya Christopher Stevens -- "(SBU) Per Special Envoy Stevens," according to the email. The email mentioned the diplomat's concerns about departing from Benghazi and also detailed the "phased checkout" of Stevens' envoy delegation from the area.
Another email, forwarded by Clinton's deputy chief of staff Jake Sullivan in November 2012, contained information on reports of Libyan police arresting people who may have had a connection to the Benghazi attack. Several lines of the original message are redacted, and a note on the email reads that it was "[c]lassified" earlier this year.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2015/08/20 22:42:04
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
No one thought Obama had a chance before the first primary either...
Not really. There were people as early as 2005 who were predicting that Obama would be the Presidential Candidate in 2008 (hell, The West Wing predicted it!). Conventional expectations certainly didn't peg him for it, but I don't think Bernie Sander's is comparable to Obama. Bernie is running a similar campaign to Trump, namely in that his platform derives its basis from rejecting political establishment. It assures popularity at a time when people are very cynical about the political establishment, but it is counter productive to winning a nomination given that the political establishment he's railing against picks the nominees. Which isn't to say that it's impossible for him to be the nominee, but Obama is very much a conventional politician albeit a very energetic and charismatic one.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/20 23:25:33
motyak wrote: It's an undercurrent out west? They're pretty accepting out there it seems...
I’d think we’re probably second behind Queensland in how racist you can be in polite company. We don’t have the direct race issues of say, NSW, but that’s because we’ve had a lot less non-white immigration.
In contrast, we’ve probably get healthier attitudes towards aboriginals, but we also have loads more problems because they’re a larger percentage of the population. This isn’t to say our attitudes towards aboriginals are healthy… perhaps ‘less horrible’ is a better descriptor.
LordofHats wrote: Realistically, its completely outside the realm of possibility that the 14th would be repealed.
Sure, repeal or amendment is almost impossible. My point was that in just opening up conversation about repeal or amendment could have negative consequences. One of the most amazing things about the US is the idea that wherever you came from, whether Americans love that country, hate that country or have never heard of that country, if you were born here you’re unquestionably American.
That’s an amazing thing, and it’s amazing not just in how it works in the law, but also in how it works culturally. You should do everything possible to make sure you don’t feth that up.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
d-usa wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if Right to Die becomes the next divisive social issue this decade.
Transgender?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/21 03:51:38
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2015/08/21 03:57:15
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
whembly wrote: Two different IG said they should've remainedclassified.
The emails Clinton received were not marked as classified when she received them, and would have remained unmarked when she surrendered them to the public domain. Her actions, at least in that regard, can be said to be in accordance with the information available to her.
jasper76 wrote: But Obama actually could have passed universal healthcare. He caved into he insurance lobby, and perhaps he thought the GOP would actually compromise. He got zero support from Republicans on the ACA just like he would have got zero support for the far-preferable single payer system he ran on. Big let down. All the cards were in place, but he wouldn't pull the trigger.
Or, more likely, he got the insurance reform he wanted.
People have made a hell of a lot of noise about Obama as this leftwing figure, but if you look at what's he's actually set out to do and done, he's a straight centre moderate. It means the simplest answer for why he didn't fight for a more progressive healthcare reform is simply because he didn't want anything more progressive.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2015/08/21 04:15:38
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
If Clinton gets through this email probe, and anybody brings it up against her in the general election, it will only make her look that much better, because her opponent would be harping on a lost cause that she was officially cleared from.
Lets face it, we all know that, in all likelihood, she's not going to take the fall from anything that's found here. Plausible deniability, and all that. The email thing will end up in a couple funny internet memes, but mark my words, if this thing fizzles out, it will be political gold for the Clintons.
jasper76 wrote: But Obama actually could have passed universal healthcare. He caved into he insurance lobby, and perhaps he thought the GOP would actually compromise. He got zero support from Republicans on the ACA just like he would have got zero support for the far-preferable single payer system he ran on. Big let down. All the cards were in place, but he wouldn't pull the trigger.
Or, more likely, he got the insurance reform he wanted.
People have made a hell of a lot of noise about Obama as this leftwing figure, but if you look at what's he's actually set out to do and done, he's a straight centre moderate. It means the simplest answer for why he didn't fight for a more progressive healthcare reform is simply because he didn't want anything more progressive.
Obama is a miserable failure for progressives on most issues. Gay rights have advanced under his watch, and at least some modicum of healthcare is accesible to the poor now. But I have a feeling gay civil rights would have been secured no matter who was President, or in charge of Congress, because its a basic civil rights issue. He should receive some credit for expanding healthacare accessibility rather than accepting the status quo, as Republicans have been supporting since forever
But he didnt achieve nearly enough. War on Drugs wages on, Strife in the Middle East is worse than when he got there (though I dont think he can be blamed for that, he certainly didn't improve the situation by any means). No truly transforming immigration reform. Some results on global warming, but nothing that any scientist anywhere thinks will improve prospects for future generations. Some economic ecovery, but not nearly enough. The list goes on and on.
ANyways, Obama's a lame duck and pretty boring to talk about these days.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/21 04:23:00
2015/08/21 04:20:19
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Grey Templar wrote: No, he couldn't do any such thing. Only Congress could do that. And Obamacare only got passed because congress went along with it at the time. The President has no power to create legislation, only to suggest legislation to congress and then sign/not sign whatever lands on his desk.
And if people were complete idiots with no foresight, that'd be how the system would work. But as long as people are smart enough to know that it's sensible to find out what the president will and won't veto before voting, and know that getting popular support for the legislation involves having the president sell it for you, then the president will play an active role in shaping legislation, at least when it comes from his own party.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jasper76 wrote: Obama is a miserable failure for progressives on most issues.
Meh, everything is disappointing to progressives. The real world will never be progressive enough, and if it is they'll just become more progressive and continue to complain.
ANyways, Obama's a lame duck and pretty boring to talk about these days.
You mentioned him!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/21 04:30:30
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2015/08/21 04:31:09
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
I would consider Ron Paul to be more of a parallel to Bernie than Obama, insofar as election patterns.
Fairly successful initially, will get almost no press, then fade away when everyone wakes up and remembers that he has no chance in hell of ever getting elected.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/21 04:31:33
2015/08/21 04:33:55
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
(CNN)"Donald Trump was right," the two men said, according to police, as they beat a homeless man with a metal pipe and then urinated on him. "All these illegals need to be deported."
Hours later, Trump responded -- with regret and then some.
While the Republican front-runner had not heard about the particular incident when reporters asked him about before a town hall event Wednesday night, he nonetheless said it would "be a shame." But he didn't stop there, as he quickly went to applaud those who echo his views.
RELATED: Trump's immigration plan is racist, Mexico says
"I will say, the people that are following me are very passionate," Trump said. "They love this country, they want this country to be great again."
The two men, identified by police as Scott Leader, 38, and his brother, Steve Leader, 30, were being held in jail without bond Thursday. Authorities say they were on their way home from a Red Sox game when they came upon the victim sleeping near a train station, according to a police report.
Witnesses told police that the two men beat the victim with a metal pole repeatedly and walked away laughing, according to a press release from the Suffolk County District Attorney's office.
The elder Leader brother, Scott, later told police they attacked him because he was "homeless," "Hispanic," and an "illegal immigrant."
The victim told police that he awoke to the men urinating on him. He was brought to Boston Medical Center to be treated for a broken nose and serious bruising across his ribs, among other injuries, the press release said.
Donald Trump: I'll end birthright citizenship
Donald Trump: I'll end birthright citizenship 01:48
The victim is not undocumented, according to a Social Security number for the man listed in the police report but blacked out for privacy reasons. Social Security numbers are issued to U.S. citizens and authorized workers, according to the Social Security Administration website.
RELATED: Does the RNC have a secret anti-Trump war room?
The Leader brothers, facing a number of assault and battery charges as well as gross lewdness, were ordered to be held without bail Wednesday, according to the Suffolk County District Attorney's office. They are expected back in court on Sept. 3.
Calls to their lawyers were not immediately returned Thursday.
The physical attack comes after Trump's divisive immigration proposals have made international headlines in his White House campaign.
Trump has called for a wall to be built along the U.S.-Mexican border, revoking citizenship of babies born in the U.S. to undocumented parents and deporting undocumented immigrants.
"I have to do the right thing," the mogul said in an interview with CNN's Chris Cuomo Wednesday, when asked about his immigration plan being under fire.
jasper76 wrote: IME, Trumps popularity is based on red meat promises that he can't possibly provide.
Obama rode the exact same wave.
But Obama actually could have passed universal healthcare. He caved into he insurance lobby, and perhaps he thought the GOP would actually compromise. He got zero support from Republicans on the ACA just like he would have got zero support for the far-preferable single payer system he ran on. Big let down. All the cards were in place, but he wouldn't pull the trigger.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/21 04:36:24
2015/08/21 06:05:57
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
jasper76 wrote: If Clinton gets through this email probe, and anybody brings it up against her in the general election, it will only make her look that much better, because her opponent would be harping on a lost cause that she was officially cleared from.
If you couple the hatred many dyed-in-the-wool Republican voters have towards the Clintons, the hatred many of them have for Obama, and the (correct) belief that a Clinton Administration will be much like the Obama Administration...you get a decent recipe for mobilizing GOP voters. Tag on the message of "She dodged punishment too!" and you get bonus points.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2015/08/21 06:15:35
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
BlaxicanX wrote: I would consider Ron Paul to be more of a parallel to Bernie than Obama, insofar as election patterns.
Fairly successful initially, will get almost no press, then fade away when everyone wakes up and remembers that he has no chance in hell of ever getting elected.
Yep. And both play very well with the kind of people who vote in their respective primaries, making their support look vastly bigger in the primary season than it really is.
Fair enough. Though you must admit you expanded quite a bit on Grey Templar's throw away line.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/21 06:17:55
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2015/08/21 11:05:46
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
jasper76 wrote: If Clinton gets through this email probe, and anybody brings it up against her in the general election, it will only make her look that much better, because her opponent would be harping on a lost cause that she was officially cleared from.
If you couple the hatred many dyed-in-the-wool Republican voters have towards the Clintons, the hatred many of them have for Obama, and the (correct) belief that a Clinton Administration will be much like the Obama Administration...you get a decent recipe for mobilizing GOP voters. Tag on the message of "She dodged punishment too!" and you get bonus points.
I guess I wonder if this may just all end up playing into Clinton's hands. If Clinton comes away clean from this, if the Republican candidates that remain overplay their hand, Clinton will be able to pull the beleaguered-for-no-reason female/progressive card. The degree to which Republicans are still harping about Benghazi has set her up for this pretty well. You'd think something like Benghazi would play against Clinton, but when Republican candidates bring it up, outside of their base, it just seems petty and small, but its one of the few issues that allows Clinton to say things like "I won't get in the mud with them" and actually seem forceful, resolved, and, well, experienced and Presidential.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, never underestimate the power of a Clinton to turn gak into gold.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/08/21 11:16:11
2015/08/21 11:16:04
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
As most people probably know, former president, Jimmy Carter, has been diagnosed with cancer.
Recently, he's been doing a lot of interviews on his presidency, which I found to be open and honest, especially about the Iran hostages disaster.
He also expressed his wish for peace in the Middle East.
An interesting watch, if people are interested.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/08/21 11:50:59
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Jimmy Carter gets a bad rap I think. All the complaints people have about politicians today, it's kind of ironic that one of the most genuinely decent human beings to ever sit in the White House is regarded as having been so ineffective in office.
Bowden's book on the Hostage Crisis is pretty good and casts Carter in a very sympathetic light, made me change my opinion on his handling of the whole deal.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/08/21 12:12:57
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Agree with the above regarding Carter. As honest and sincere as he is, I think events spiralled beyond his ability to effectively manage.
To be fair to Carter, some of the problems were outwith his control. It was Delta forces' first mission, if memory serves, and as highly trained as they were, new units always seem to suffer a baptism of fire.
The early days of the SAS and British commandos missions in WW2 suffered many a disaster (including the capture of the unit's founder) and it was unfortunate for Carter and the hostages, the same thing happened on Delta's first mission.
And let's not forget that the US military's morale in the 1970s was rock bottom due to Vietnam.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/21 12:14:06
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/08/21 13:05:57
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
CptJake wrote: Unfortunately being decent =/= being effective.
Bowden's book on the Hostage Crisis is pretty good and casts Carter in a very sympathetic light, made me change my opinion on his handling of the whole deal.
